阿秀 发表于 2004-8-8 17:44:28

issue4 研究需要外来者

Issue4 No field of study can advance significantly unless outsiders bring their knowledge and experience to that field of study.

正文

Instead of the emphasis of outsiders, I believe the significant advance in any field must depend on new thoughts and creations. Without them, the progress of study tends to fall into stagnation, but an outsider is not a necessary vector to load these things.

The progress of a study field requires new forces. On the one hand, the long-time development may mistakenly make people regard some theories and methodologies as unchangeable things. If no one had enough courage to charge the accepted theories, such as sun is the center of the universe, time and space are constant existences, and earth is a plane, all studies involve in these things may face stagnation. On the other hand, the further development of a field often necessarily needs knowledge and technologies from other fields. When biology finished the era of observation of large creature, it required new technology, such as microscope, to explore a totally new field; and without the discovery of the function of DNA, researchers would not enable to fix a quality, in other words, to make a kind fish always grows so fast from one generation to another. To sum up, it is well known that no field of study can advance significantly unless new thoughts, theories or technology permeate in.

However, an outsider is far from the only vector. In history, many breaks come from the neophytes. Newton, Einstein, Darwin and so on formed their talented ideas when they were new persons, which may owe much to the relatively weak limitations in their thoughts as a neophyte. In addition, more often, the significant advance should owe to those have engaged in the researches. When they get touch with the new theories and technologies, they can leap forward. Yuan Longping, the father of modern hybridized cereal, for example, had even encounter unsolvable problems because of the absence of the knowledge on molecular genetics. After he got the information about this knowledge, new idea emerged, and he finally overcame the problems by himself. Especially in such an era when mutual influences among different fields become more and more frequent, the researchers in one field may pay more attention to the breakthroughs in relevant fields, and significant advances may come from the collision of the new information with their old thoughts. So, admittedly, bringing outsider is not the only way to thrive a field.

In conclusion, without the new thoughts, knowledge and technologies from other fields, it is hard for a field to get significant development, however, these needs can be met by many ways besides an outsider. So, encouraging neophytes, consciously to learn new progress in relative field and so on should be paid enough attention.

maggie0810 发表于 2004-8-8 23:42:57

占座~~~~~

木耳 发表于 2004-8-8 23:43:02

对outsider的理解...

字面上看是指局外人,但看文章的时候我觉得把局外人主动进入某陌生领域和在某领域的人主动借鉴领域外的东西应分开有些别扭。其实本质都是一样的嘛,就是学科的交叉融合。

开了开头的论点让人感觉这是一个基本反对的模式。

第一段承认了外来力量的重要作用(看了全文我感到你这里是要做一个让步,先承认ousider有一定的重要性对不对?但就在这一段祸根即已埋下)

第二段开头就承接上一段说However, an outsider is far from the only vector。这样对比前面一段,已经可以让人感觉这里实际上把outsider广义化了(很可能你这里并没有感觉到):knowledge and technologies from other fields。然后谈到了other vectors。其实牛顿的主要贡献之一就是发明了微积分并将之应用于物理。而爱因斯坦也是借助了一套很复杂的数学方法(是一种非欧几何体系,我记不太清了)才对它的广义相对论给出了严格的证明。他们都逃不了广义outsider的影响
后面的people engaged in one field,但举的袁隆平的例子其实确实证明了第一段的论点,要知道你所说的起关键作用的molecular genetics或者说molecular biology其实是建立在物理学,信息科学,显微技术,尤其是化学的飞速进步才得以建立的。没有这些outsiders他袁隆平一个人在怎么encouraging也是没用的。而且更重要的是,我记得袁隆平杂交水稻的成功是相当早的事,应该距今15-20年了。而molecular genetics和molecular biology却是近几年的事。这中间十几年的时间差怎么解释?
在往后的Especially...我觉得就更跑到第一段了:mutual influences among different fields ...
可到了最后,又拐回了开头:outsider is not the only way to thrive a field。这里你又把outsider狭义化了,成了单单的人。

最关键的问题在于对outsider的理解前后不统一。也许写作是在你脑子里只是一个意思,从你开头和结尾的论点看应该是狭义的局外人;但你再第一段和第二段的开头却不自觉地犯了将outsider含义广义化的问题。这个问题也直接导致了这篇文章的前后矛盾和不一致。

木耳 发表于 2004-8-8 23:45:29

最大的优点是语言,基本没有语病。

一定要注意文章论点前后一致,千万不能模能两可或者自相矛盾。

lakeqian 发表于 2004-8-9 00:02:46

make people regard不好
unchangeable things。things??
However, an outsider is far from the only vector唐突了点吧。上文没outsider。要先承认outsider有点作用再转折。正文不够丰满。
breaks ?breakthrough
new persons??

lakeqian 发表于 2004-8-9 00:03:59

呼。200啦。
木耳大侠怎么出洞了?呵呵~~少见阿。作文版的斑竹们到似乎消失了似的~~

木耳 发表于 2004-8-9 09:57:03

最初由 lakeqian 发布
呼。200啦。
木耳大侠怎么出洞了?呵呵~~少见阿。作文版的斑竹们到似乎消失了似的~~

是啊,我又出“洞”了。
前一段在山中与人修行,现已略有小成...

阿秀 发表于 2004-8-9 10:38:47

哈哈,斑竹大人的点评,非常感谢!

这篇文章我确实对 outsider定义感到困惑,本文我把它定义为个人,就是某个具体的人了。看完斑竹的评论我觉得是不是我没有表达清楚自己的观点,主要是这里的outsider我只是单纯理解为一个载体,并没有泛化,我的论点是:
  
1: 承认外来知识,理论,技术的重要性
2: 外来人员不是带来这些的唯一途径。新人,或者是已经在研究的人接触新的东西作出突破。

例子方面,第一: 当时主要是考虑牛顿,和Einstein他们作为新人的时候已对已有观念产生怀疑,证明毕竟是后来的事情,所以想用这个例子说新人缺少束缚。
          第二: 袁隆平的例子,可能是我用词不当。当时他陷入僵局,因为中国反对DNA是遗传物质一套,育种学停留在嫁接的水平上,后来是一个偶然的机会他了解到西方已经提出DNA的作用功能的解释,才采用杂交的方式进行。呵呵,一下没想到合适的词语,可能应该用MODERN GENETICS 比较好吧。另外,需要纠正,分子生物学已经有几十年的历史,并没有想象的那么短。

不知道,这样的提纲可以吗?

木耳 发表于 2004-8-9 10:43:46

看了你的开头知道你的outsider的意思是单指外来人。但就像前面我说的,你给人的感觉不太对...

而且我个人也不太同意仅仅把outsider看作外来“人”主动带进新东西,这样显得有些狭隘。

六翼小宇 发表于 2004-8-9 10:45:16

最初由 阿秀 发布
哈哈,斑竹大人的点评,非常感谢!

这篇文章我确实对 outsider定义感到困惑,本文我把它定义为个人,就是某个具体的人了。看完斑竹的评论我觉得是不是我没有表达清楚自?.

以下省略......
定义为个人的话,是不是有点太狭隘了?题目是个完全非否啊

阿秀 发表于 2004-8-9 10:48:02

en ,是啊,我也明白...
不知道有什么好的建议,看这道BT的题目的时候我就在想这个问题.....

lakeqian 发表于 2004-8-9 11:30:00

意思是扩展到Outside knowledge ??
不过outsider似乎的确只指个人。。。

阿秀 发表于 2004-8-9 11:49:24

多贴一篇别的坛子里的。 它的论点很好。我打算参考它的啦



It is well said that need is the mother of invention. And in this context man is one of its kinds. Since the beginning of human evolution man has always come up with greatest ideas to satisfy his need and still continuing to do the same through deepest study of various issues These issues have influenced and will influence the existence of human race. It is hard work to achieve such mastery. It is not one time process. It has gone through several phases. For doing this our scientists, engineers, researchers have spent hours and hours, gaining knowledge.
Today抯 world is very dynamic and changing continuously. Every day some new inventions are made in various fields. The field could be biology, chemistry, computing, mechanics, etc. Man is always after perusing his ingenuity and is being very innovative. It is very evident from history of human evolution. But behind all this ingenuity and innovations lies a vast amount of study of related subject.

Man landed on moon long ago. Scientists in NASA worked for hours and hours. They had to study various aspects regarding this journey. They studied the environment of moon, they studied the human physiology, they studied earth抯 atmosphere and lot of other things. But this was not possible without outside help. To do all this study NASA hired astrologists for studying moons atmosphere, hired physicians for their expertise in human physiology. To make the spacecraft to carry astronauts to moon engineers worked for days and nights.

Another good example is from field of medical science. These days artificial bone implants is a common practice. Medical professional have to do long surgeries for joining fractured bone with help of metal plates. But behind the scene the scientists work for hours to get correct alloy which will suit human body. It is a very crucial thing for the whole process. So such outside help is very essential for successfully completion of the surgery.

The outside help can be in various forms. Consider an example of a chemistry student doing some research regarding secretions made by some bacteria. He must have expertise in chemical composition of that particular secretions but he can acquire help of a biology student for knowing more about those bacteria, knowing where they grow, etc. So this example proves that every subject has some or other aspects, which actually are not part of the main topic, but still they are of vital importance. So outside help is desired for success.
When we are working on some topic we go to various sources for help. One of the most recent and widely used sources is The Internet. It is a huge source of information. And definitely the out side information and expertise need can be acquired from I-net. There are discussion forums where we can either post our problem or try to solve others problems. In this way mutual sharing is part of today抯 dynamic world of continuous development and innovations.

So as it is evident from the examples that outside help is must for study and research of about topic. Any expert in a single field cannot work alone and successfully complete the job. The world has become so complex that there is no field separate from other. There is some or other relation among all the faculties. And because of the capabilities of human brain one cannot expertise in all the topics or subjects. So outside help in form of knowledge and/or experience is vital for success.
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