[美国&加拿大] Is law school a safe bet? (zz) [复制链接]

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发表于 2007-11-19 18:21:15 |只看该作者 |倒序浏览

在网上散步的时候看到的，一个美国人要不要读jd的烦恼和群众的意见，还是挺有意思的，转贴过来
http://ask.metafilter.com/37513/Is-law-school-a-safe-bet

Is law school a safe bet?
May 3, 2006 5:36 PM    Is now as good a time as any to assume massive debt to attend law school?

Ive been accepted to a Top-20 law school and have everything in frontof me ready to go in the mail and seal the deal. I just cant bringmyself to send it off knowing that Ill be committing to 100k+ in debtin the face of rising intrest rates and inflation, plus who knows whatelse with the current crazy economy situation.

But my current job is dead-end fast food, and I graduated with a useless history degree from a bottom-feeder state university.

The legal career itself is not an issue, I have several paths torelative happiness depending on how law school plays out, and Im notTHAT worrried about hating being a lawyer. (ok, maybe a little worried)

Is it a fairly safe bet to mortage the next 20 years of my life toenter an already crowded, competative field? Would waiting a year justmake it a worse prospect?
posted by T.D. Strange to education (17 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite
I'll be honest with you: Don't go unless you really really really wanna go.

If you really wanna go, the question of debt shouldn't even be an issue.

If you study hard and end up in the top 10% of your class, you can payoff law school (depending on where you attend) within 3 years if youlive smart.
posted by bamassippi at 5:50 PM  on May 3

Debt should be an issue.Choose your school at least in part based on debt. If you study hardand end up in the top 10% of your class (which you can't count on, sodon't), you might be able to pay off law school in a not super longtime, but only if you take a job that you may not want, working hoursthat you certainly don't want to work.

Don't go to law school unless you really, really, really want to be alawyer. Don't go into massive debt for law school unless you want to bea lawyer so bad that you don't care if you make much money doing it.

There are non-lawyer things you can do with a law degree. But if you'regoing to do one of them, then law school is just an expensive waste of3 years.

(so really, I agree with bamassippi, except that you can't count ongraduating in the top 10%, and I think a 3-year payoff is totallyunrealistic even then)
posted by JekPorkins at 5:56 PM  on May 3

I've been a lawyer threeyears. I went to a top-10 school. I have 80K in debt. I love my job. Iwould do it all over. But I knew I wanted to be a lawyer.

If i wasn't sure that I wanted to be a lawyer, I would still go to lawschool - but I would do it at a local school, as long as I knew where Iwanted to live when I was done, or I would have gone to the schoolwhere I was offered a scholarship. And, if you got into a top 20, thensome school ranked between 30 and 50 will give you a full ride.

It's all kinds of trade offs. But if sending the letter is causing youdistress, maybe you aren't ready for the debt commitment.
posted by dpx.mfx at 6:01 PM  on May 3

I didn't go to lawschool, but I did get a Ph.D. Same debt burden, and in my case, a lowersalary than many attorneys. Nevertheless, I consider my education agreat investment, because I can't imagine myself doing anything otherthan what I do, and my degree is essential for my job. Hence, whatothers have said is spot on: if you have a burning desire to practicelaw, then dive in. It's not about money. If you're not so sure, thendpx.mfx is right. Forego law school at Ivy U and attend State U forfree instead. (in fact, maybe you should do that anyway . . .)
posted by Crotalus at 6:35 PM  on May 3

You would be far from alone attending law school when you're not sure if you want to be a lawyer. From Learned Hand:

You see, the family had all been lawyers . . . . And thereit was. Law has always been a kind of slop box for boys who don't knowwhat else they want to do anyway. It's decent and it may lead tosomething or it may not. So I found myself in the law school. And therewere a lot of men I knew who had gone in for the same reason -- theydidn't know what else to do.

That certainly describes my experience (minus the family full of lawyers).
posted by magwich at 7:53 PM  on May 3 [1 favorite]

$100k for 2 years? Wow.

Realistically, (based on my own debt $50k and payments $500/mo) You're looking at $1,000 a month in payments.

Will you make more then $1000+ your current sallary as a lawyer?

If the answer is yes, then you should go to law school.

On the other hand it's not like you need to be a lawyer or a fast food person, you could get a teaching cert and become a high school history teacher or something.
posted by delmoi at 7:53 PM  on May 3

And I should ad that I was pleasantly surprised to find that I really enjoyed the law. Of course, personal enjoyment may vary.
posted by magwich at 7:53 PM  on May 3

FWIW, a friend of minewas in a similar situation, he graduated with a FILM degree from astate school (a pretty good one though) and was basically directionlessafter that. He was living with his parents (and driving them nuts) andworking at fucking k-mart, at a phone center and then at a factory.

Anyway, now he's in law school in San Francisco getting a law degreewhile in his spare time persuing his true passion, smoking pot andbanging hot chicks he meets on myspace.
posted by delmoi at 7:56 PM  on May 3

My mother has given me a great piece of advice that has always served me well:

"Never think twice about investing in yourself.  Its the most sound - and most rewarding - investment you can make."

What else are you going to do with that money?  Buy some stuff?
posted by ChasFile at 8:21 PM  on May 3

Law school in the US takes three years, delmoi.

If you borrow at a fixed rate, you want inflation. Andif you want to be the kind of lawyer that makes a lot of money, youshould go to the best law school you can get into. If you want to workin public interest (or something like that), go to the cheapest lawschool you can find.

If you're not sure that you want to be an attorney, do something elsefor two years and reconsider. I have no evidence (so I am talking outof my arse) but I'd bet that over 50% of JDs regret choosing to go tolaw school.
posted by Kwantsar at 10:18 PM  on May 3

don't go unless you really, really want to.

if you go half-heartedly, you'll regret it.
posted by ab3 at 12:48 AM  on May 4

I went to law school - toa top school, just like a school that you're considering. I turned downa full ride scholarship at a less "prestigious" local school, and youcould probably get the same offer if you tried. Now I'm stuck working90 hours a week in a job that I hate, just to make my debt payments andpay off my debt quickly. Bottom line: if you take on that $100,000debt, then you will work really, really hard for, say, 14 years, atwhich point (if you're very lucky and very disciplined) your debt willbe paid off and your net worth will be precisely what it is now - $0.The only difference is, you'll be older, tired, and bald.

Please strongly consider going to the best law school that you can get into that is freefor you. This may close some doors on the "prestigious" large firm jobsand appellate court clerkships, but if you're not sure that you want tocommit to the law, then what do you care? Are you really willing to pay$100,000 out of your own pocket (more, when you figure in the interest)to buy your way into those jobs? And, besides, if you do very well atthe local law school, you'll still get the great jobs - a friend ofmine took a full ride at a local Midwestern law school (which is nothighly ranked) and now she works for Skadden.

Remember: once you have that debt, you have no choice but to pay itoff. You can't return your law degree. Bankruptcy won't get rid of it.And very few jobs pay enough to allow you to service your law schooldebt plus your inevitable mortgage. Debt narrows your freedom, in otherwords.

And, if you can defer your acceptance for a year (many schools will dothis for you if you ask) strongly consider working as a paralegal for ayear before law school. Not only will it help you to understand what'sgoing on (and give you a leg-up in terms of grades) but it'll help youto understand what it is you're signing on for.
posted by gd779 at 6:20 AM  on May 4

But I see that I missedan entire segment of the question. You also wanted to know whetherwaiting another year will make your situation better or worse.

There's really no way to tell. Regarding interest rates, bear in mindthat your debt will likely be paid off over 20 years (though, withrespect to federal loans, you may be able to consolidate and lock in alaw fixed interest rate). There's no real way to tell what the interestrates are going to do, but they're not likely to increase sharply overthe course of a single year. I wouldn't worry about it.

Your much bigger concern, frankly, is going to be the job market duringthe year that you graduate. Your ability (or not) to find that plum lawfirm job right out of school will mean far more to you than anymarginal increase or decrease in the interest rates. But who knows whatthe market will be like in three years? If you're going to a "Top 20"school, then it's likely you'll be able to find some kind of legal job,whatever your grades - it just may not pay too much, in the worst casescenario. But, again, that's always a risk.

Bottom line is, this year is probably as good as any other.
posted by gd779 at 6:37 AM  on May 4

T.D. Strange -  short anwer: take off a year and get some more experience in law to make a smart decision.

I graduated as a literature major and worked two years as a paralegalin one of the top corporate law firms in new york city. The hours wereexcruciatingly long and painful, but I actually really liked the work.I found that skilled, smart people rose to the top quickly - much morethan other industries in which I have experience.

However, I was also surrounded by miserable lawyers who went to lawschool and had no idea what the life was going to be like. Now NYCmight be a most extreme case, but all of these people were therebecause they felt they had to work in a place like that to pay offtheir debt. They certainly receive a rude awakening when they're makingbinders and photocopying documents. Most of these associates all haddreams of some idealistic law type job some years in the future, buteventually they just settled for some in-house counsel job, a smallerfirm, or a switch to another big firm (which they didn't like anybetter). All said that they wished they tried working at a firm and getting some more experience there beforehand.

I would strongly recommend that you get some experience working in afirm, because honestly, if you go to a Top 20 school you are verylikely to end up in one of them. I would say that 75% of the paralegalsI knew decided against going to law school after initially wanting toand 75 % of the lawyer wish they hadn't gone to law school.

The other thing to bear in mind is that only your first year counts.Don't go into law school without being fully committed to it, becauseyou need to do that first year well for recruitment. I would recommendthat you big up a book called Law 101. Also, you might be interested in these Life of a Law Student podcasts. Finally, I would check out some of the law-related lectures and coursewares on this list.

So in short, get a job in a law firm, read up a bit, and give yourselfa chance to make a smart decision. Also you can get a better sense ofwhat you want to study (ie - do you like to cut and paste? Then youshould do securities law! Do you like thumbing through 300 boxes ofdocuments in middle america? Litigation is right for you!)

If this is a decision you want to make, go for the best school youcan because the payoff is very likely more in the long run (lawyers canreally look down on lesser schools...insecurity thing or what not).

FYI - I also just got into a top school in the US as well as fullscholarships from some others. It was a tough decision but I decidednot to do it because I live with my wife in Europe and we're very happyover here. That's another thing - American law is of relatively littlevalue outside the US (except possibly NY securities law and to a lesserextent, arbitration).
posted by BigBrownBear at 7:24 AM  on May 4

If this is a decisionyou want to make, go for the best school you can because the payoff isvery likely more in the long run (lawyers can really look down onlesser schools...insecurity thing or what not).

Is your ego worth $100,000? Mine's not. If it's not, then do thefinancially smart thing - a top-ranked school is financially smart ifyou want to spend the rest of your life working for a large law firm,and you're willing to foreclose almost every other possibility.Otherwise, a full-ride to a lower ranked school (where you will likelyachieve a higher class rank anyway) may be something to consider, giventhe price difference.
posted by gd779 at 10:07 AM  on May 4

gd779. That's true. Theschool you go to will definitely affect the rest of your career moresoin law than other industries. That's all that I'm saying.
posted by BigBrownBear at 1:17 AM  on May 9

The school you go to will definitely affect the rest of your career moreso in law than other industries.

Not really.  Your class rank will have a greater effect on your career than what school you go to.

Look at the websites of the top firms in the country. With few, if any,exceptions. you'll find attorneys at every level of those firms whowent to a broad cross-section of schools. Sure, there are lots of top10 school alums, but you'll find alums of small regional schools amongthem, too.
posted by JekPorkins at 9:49 AM  on May 9

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