14 年秋季提纲互改小组-issue 3/137

andaluciaUID：3556932

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-15 21:22
3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields  ...

谢谢王老师的批改！我一直觉得自己的文章有些问题但是自己又说不好，我思考一下我的问题下午把改过的文章再发上来给您看看。十分感谢！

andaluciaUID：3556932

我之前的主要错误经过王老师指正主要是偏题，为了尽量扣题我做了如下修改

开头段I do not agree that educational institutions should dissuade students from choosing fields of major in which they are unlikely to succeed. Either the prediction about a developing field or the evaluation about growing students can not be pragmatically made by a common educational institution. And what educational institution should do is not giving students’ limitation, but the ability in thinking about themselves.

第一段，让步，中心句Admittedly, some people feel that some fields are harder than the other to succeed. 以软件行业举例，从前有段时间我们都认为软件行业难以成功，所以这样看来确实应该劝说同学们不要进入这个行业。，For example, the software field in China was regarded as unlikely to succeed. It is because its market was saturated. But at the same time, there were still a plenty of students are majoring in software engineering. It was obviously a field which was highly competitive and difficult to succeed. Because educational institution should always be responsible for students’ future. Combined with the condition of the software field, it seems reasonable for the educational institution to dissuade their students from study software engineering.

第二段，由于逻辑上先反驳让步段，所以将中心句放到了最后。首先讲实际上软件行业和大家语气很不一样，发展的很好，比其他行业更容易成功。 what happened next? The market then boomed exponentially in China. New software companies opened every day lacking numerous software engineers. And now we witnessed unbelievable success in the software engineering created by young people. Compare to the other field, in software field it is much easier to get success. This example perfectly demonstrate that even a seemed patent future of a field is complex and flexible. 得出结论，中心句，It is impossible for the educational institutions to predict whether a field is likely or unlikely for students to get success.

第三段，中心句In addition to the unpractical judgement about the fields, the evaluation about students is quixotic as well. 首先解释老师一般劝说学生不进入一些行业的原因，然后由于行业本身的原因已经进行了反驳，这段反驳学生能力方面的原因。主要是因为学生是不停的在学习进步的，所以很难对学生的能力进行判断If an educator wish to dissuade students from some fields, except the negative point of view towards the field, it is possibly that he think the students are not suitable for these fields. And the assumption is based on the educators’ judgement about the ability or talent of the students. But students, mostly young people, are continuously growing and learning. In Chinese is there an old saying that “after three days, you need to judge a young man in a new way”. Just like It is absurd today to review that when Einstein was young, he was treated as a student with learning disability.

第四段，中心句And furthermore, education should give students the ability to think for themselves other than dissuade them out of some expected hard field. 然后讲教育的意义是给学生自由思考，探索的能力，劝说他们不进入一些行业违背了这个本质，给他们加了一些限制。The word “Education” is form latin, which means lead out. The true essence of education should be free students’ mind and promote them to explore, to think. But the action of dissuading the students is just on opposite. It is setting the limitation on students, which is contradict the true reality of the education.

结尾段，总结，没有新内容In sum, it is not only unpractical to predict whether a field is likely or not to succeed, but also impossible to evaluate the capability of students in the future. And most important is that because of the true essence of education is free people, it is contradict to its essence to put limits on students to dissuade from some particular fields.

pochun111UID：2608867

题目
Educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss your views on the policy and explain your reasoning for the position you take. In developing and supporting your position, you should consider the possible consequences of implementing the policy and explain how these consequences shape your position.
主旨句
Should educational institutions discourage students from choosing fields of study in which the chance of success for them is almost zero? One should analyze this issue from the fundamental purpose and obligations of education. In my observation, this assertion makes educational institutions to be nothing but commitment betrayers, since it demonstrates their failure in fulfilling educational obligations to both students and society. In addition, the speaker’s arbitrary overrating about educational institutions’ potential on judging students’ success rate in certain fields makes the assertion even further from reasonable.

In the first place, the evaluation of students’ probability of success in certain fields is far beyond educational institution’s potential.
学校没有足够能力评估学生在某领域成功的概率。因为尚且没有健全的标准和体系去做这些评估，在这种标准缺失的情况下学校能用什么去做这些评估呢，是用学生在学校的表现，还是那个领域的job availability呢？

In the second place, even such evaluating standards are well established and potent enough to drive educational institutions to do the dissuasion, their approaches still violate educational obligations.
即使学校建立了这样一种健全评估体系，且这个体系足以让学校去阻止学生，学校在这么做的同时还是违背了教育的目的和义务。对于学校教育对社会的义务来说，学校有义务向社会输送各方面的人才，如果学校组织学生去从事某些领域势必造成那些领域再无新人才可用。同样也就滞后了该领域的发展。从教育对学生的义务来讲，教育本应该帮助学生寻找并支持他们的兴趣，辅助他们学习技能并在社会足以立足并自我实现。如果学校阻止学生从事某一领域，那么就组织了某些学生想从事看领域的想法和对该领域的兴趣，这样看来，学校同时违背了教育对社会和对学生的双重目的

Admittedly, it is essential for educational institutions to offer proper suggestions and guidance to students before any assured interests being installed.
学校在学生选专业的方面应给予一定指导。这样做可以让学生对专业有更广泛的认识。但是还是上面提到的，强制性的组织或者鼓励学生去选择某些学科是违背教育义务的，而且，学校只是根据自己经验去做判断也是不令人信服的

In conclusion, it is beneficial for students to receive experienced instructions from educational institutions on major field selection. However, if these instructions go any further toward compulsive encouragement or discouragement, dereliction of duty was done, and nothing else but disobedience of performing educational obligations is demonstrated by educational institutions.

pochun111UID：2608867

与18楼提纲对应的全文Educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss your views on the policy and explain your reasoning for the position you take. In developing and supporting your position, you should consider the possible consequences of implementing the policy and explain how these consequences shape your position.

Should educational institutions discourage students from choosing fields of study in which the chance of success for them is almost zero? One should analyze this issue from the fundamental purpose and obligations of education. In my observation, this assertion makes educational institutions to be nothing but commitment betrayers, since it demonstrates their failure in fulfilling educational obligations to both students and society. In addition, the speaker’s arbitrary overrating about educational institutions’ potential on judging students’ success rate in certain fields makes the assertion even further from reasonable.
In the first place, the evaluation of students’ probability of success in certain fields is far beyond educational institution’s potential. It is undoubtedly that there are no such solid standards or systems ever existed in evaluating this success rate. In that case, what kind of factors that educational institutions depend on to do this assessment under the evaluating standards deficiency, on students’ academic performance, or on availability of the jobs in that field? Apparently, schools are incapable of doing any discouragement to students during this study field pursing process under the circumstance of lacking powerful measurement method.
In the second place, even such evaluating standards are well established and potent enough to drive educational institutions to do the dissuasion, their approaches still violate educational obligations. As for society, educational institutions suppose to perpetually replenish talents to all kinds of fields in order to sustain continuous development. If schools dissuade students to pursue certain fields, these fields will out of talents without replacement eventually. This talents exhaustion will undisputedly result in deterioration of that field as well. Imagine what will happen if there is no more students pursue medicine. Well, this example borders on hyperbole. But it is obvious that discourage students to pursue some fields of study will threaten our social development. As for students, educational institutions are responsible for supporting their interests and imparting knowledge and techniques they need to live in the society. By dissuading students from pursing certain fields of study is in other way to prevent their interests in that field. Therefore, schools show dereliction to both students and society on performing their educational obligations.
Admittedly, it is essential for educational institutions to offer proper suggestions and guidance to students before any assured interests being installed. Schools are more experienced than students after all. Presenting a broader spectrum of information in front of students will guarantee the comprehensiveness of their consideration. Nevertheless, this instructive infiltration must being kept under control and shouldn’t cross the line to compulsive dissuasion.  
In conclusion, it is beneficial for students to receive experienced instructions from educational institutions on major field selection. However, if these instructions go any further toward compulsive encouragement or discouragement, dereliction of duty was done, and nothing else but disobedience of performing educational obligations is demonstrated by educational institutions.
1 感觉自己在写第三段 也就是关于讨论学校阻止学生选某一学科是违背教育义务的这段的时候很坎坷 最开始我本是打算把这样的一大段分成两段写 一段写违背教育对社会的义务 一段写违背教育对学生的义务 但是后来发现缺乏支持的例子 所以放弃
2让步段落觉得自己讨论的还不够 但是也不知道该怎么加强
3 还有经常写文章不知道是先写让步段落好 还是最后写让步段落好
4 我发现自己在行文的时候总是喜欢用虚拟语气，但是又总觉得语境不太符合，时态也有问题。我觉得我脑中徘徊的问题始终是我要写的东西是在题目给的情况已经发生了的情况下呢， 还是没发生但如果发生会怎么样。我想这个是我总想写虚拟语气的原因吧

tesolchinaUID：2191404

pochun111 发表于 2014-10-22 12:20
与18楼提纲对应的全文Educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing fields of study  ...

题目
Educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss your views on the policy and explain your reasoning for the position you take. In developing and supporting your position, you should consider the possible consequences of implementing the policy and explain how these consequences shape your position.
主旨句
Should educational institutions discourage students from choosing fields of study in which the chance of success for them is almost zero? One should analyze this issue from the fundamental purpose and obligations of education. In my observation, this assertion makes educational institutions to be nothing but commitment betrayers, since it demonstrates their failure in fulfilling educational obligations to both students and society. In addition, the speaker’s arbitrary overrating about educational institutions’ potential on judging students’ success rate in certain fields makes the assertion even further from reasonable.

主旨句挺复杂  赞！
但是好像主旨句并没有和主题句呼应 也就是没有概括后面的思路
建议重温

1+3 模型及issue超级入口

https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1777364-1-1.html

如何实现well focused and well organized

https://bbs.gter.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=1780115

另外 你的用词太strong - commitment betrayers/ their failure in fulfilling educational obligation arbitrary overrating 略嫌偏激  One should analyze this issue from the fundamental purpose and obligations of education 这个说法也很生硬 看问题可以有很多角度 为什么should从这个角度呢  



In the first place, the evaluation of students’ probability of success in certain fields is far beyond educational institution’s potential.
学校没有足够能力评估学生在某领域成功的概率。因为尚且没有健全的标准和体系去做这些评估，在这种标准缺失的情况下学校能用什么去做这些评估呢，是用学生在学校的表现，还是那个领域的job availability呢？

你这里其实讲了两个问题
一个是成功的标准不确定
另一个是预测的能力问题
其实可以考虑展开写两段 如果合在一段也可以 但要分清楚


In the second place, even such evaluating standards are well established and potent enough to drive educational institutions to do the dissuasion, their approaches still violate educational obligations.
即使学校建立了这样一种健全评估体系，且这个体系足以让学校去阻止学生，学校在这么做的同时还是违背了教育的目的和义务。对于学校教育对社会的义务来说，学校有义务向社会输送各方面的人才，如果学校组织学生去从事某些领域势必造成那些领域再无新人才可用。同样也就滞后了该领域的发展。从教育对学生的义务来讲，教育本应该帮助学生寻找并支持他们的兴趣，辅助他们学习技能并在社会足以立足并自我实现。如果学校阻止学生从事某一领域，那么就组织了某些学生想从事看领域的想法和对该领域的兴趣，这样看来，学校同时违背了教育对社会和对学生的双重目的


我觉得你不能如此绝对的说这是违背教育的目的和义务  题目的观点是学校应帮助学生根据自己的才能、背景（过往基础）来选取专业 这个不会导致你说的某些行业缺人的问题 相反 可以减少学生盲目选择热门专业 自己却未必适合的问题




Admittedly, it is essential for educational institutions to offer proper suggestions and guidance to students before any assured interests being installed.
学校在学生选专业的方面应给予一定指导。这样做可以让学生对专业有更广泛的认识。但是还是上面提到的，强制性的组织或者鼓励学生去选择某些学科是违背教育义务的，而且，学校只是根据自己经验去做判断也是不令人信服的

你这一段和前面的整合会有问题
主要是前面的观点过于偏激

总的来说你要从几方面调整
1. 主旨句与主题句必须呼应
2. 观点不能偏激，尤其是不能违背事实和常识
3. 要考虑如何形成连贯的思路和观点
4. 不要用一些看起来很高端的词




In conclusion, it is beneficial for students to receive experienced instructions from educational institutions on major field selection. However, if these instructions go any further toward compulsive encouragement or discouragement, dereliction of duty was done, and nothing else but disobedience of performing educational obligations is demonstrated by educational institutions.

黑白沉默UID：3486497

I fundamentally disagree with the above statement, in that while it maybe much more relaxing for students to purse fields of study that are easy or that they are good at, in which they are likely to succeed, these fields can be either less exciting or less promising. Moreover, whether to choose the comfort field or the difficult one should always be decided by the students, and schools should only be given unbiased advices.

(It is true that) it maybe much more relaxing for students to purse fields of study that they are likely to succeed. 容易成功的专业hui1让人肉体上和精神上都比较放松。一方面，在课业不是那么重的情况下，他们可以有充足的时间休息，所以physically状态会比较好。另一方面，他们精神上也会比较放松，因为经常成功，也就是没有遇到过太多挫折，不会有太大压力。举例自己的专业公共关系，自己很creative，所以每次做作业想一个公关活动的proposal都完成的很效率，而且老师评价很高，所以我不仅每天只花很短的时间在课业上，而且每天都很开心

But fields that students, with their specialty, can easily succeed in are less exciting. 当一个学生学他自己很擅长的东西的时候，他会发现老师教的跟作业要求做的都是他自己会的，所以就会比较无聊。当他觉得无聊他就会懈怠，影响表现，尽管这个专业本来可能easily to succeed， 也可能不成功。

On the other hand, fields that can easily lead to success because they are easy are not promising. 如果某个专业是因为简单所以才很容易学成，那么很可能有很多人都回去学。学的人多了，进入社会后这个领域的竞争就会比较激烈，可能即使学得很好，也不容易找到好的工作。

Moreover, whether to choose the comfort field or the difficult one should always be decided by the students, and schools should only be given unbiased advices. 每一个学生在学校里学习的过程中其实不仅是要学知识，还应该学习理智的进行思考。而他们需要做的任何一个选择，也应该是锻炼或者说实践他们思考能力最好的机会。所以，无论是选择容易学成的专业还是不容易学成的专业，都应该是学生自己的选择，学校不应该给他们误导性的信息。

tesolchinaUID：2191404

黑白沉默 发表于 2014-10-25 21:42
I fundamentally disagree with the above statement, in that while it maybe much more relaxing for stu ...

你的提纲我明天再看
这里有些问题 请你有空回答 站内信给我

寄托GRE考生背景调查

以前是否考过GRE作文，分数如何？托福作文？

下次考试日期？ 考前还可以写多少道题的提纲和全文？  

期待的分数？

谈谈对1+3模型的看法。

觉得自己的issue和argument最大的问题分别是什么？

对于我的指导有何期待或要求？

对于我在版面针对其他同学的批改、指导有何意见？

黑白沉默UID：3486497

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-26 00:20
你的提纲我明天再看
这里有些问题 请你有空回答 站内信给我

已发~~提前谢谢老师~~

tesolchinaUID：2191404

黑白沉默 发表于 2014-10-25 21:42
I fundamentally disagree with the above statement, in that while it maybe much more relaxing for stu ...

点评见附件

你的提纲感觉写偏了 对题目的理解有问题

同时你需要结合具体的例子来讨论 比如有些人数学很好 学计算机比较容易成功  只有讲到具体的科目 内容才更丰富

黑白沉默UID：3486497

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-26 12:31
点评见附件

你的提纲感觉写偏了 对题目的理解有问题

恩 其实我在写这个题的时候就比较困惑 可能有点钻牛角尖，我会觉得这个succeed强调的是学习这个专业的成功，而不一定是以后的成功。我会好好修改下这个提纲再发上来的，谢谢老师！

黑白沉默UID：3486497

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-26 12:31
点评见附件

你的提纲感觉写偏了 对题目的理解有问题

根据老师的建议 修改如下：

Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.   

I fundamentally disagree with the above statement that educational institutions should impede students to enter fields that are hard to succeed, in that it is neither possible to predict whether a field is easily to succeed in or not, nor wise to arbitrarily judge whether one will or will not be succeed in a given field. While some people believe that schools should make suggestions for students about their learning fields, I believe it still should be students' responsibility to make their own choices.

It is hard for educational institutions to know whether the certain fields is easily to succeed in or not.这个社会瞬息万变，学校作为主要教书育人的场所，得到的trend很有可能不准确或者已经过时；又或者因为学生听从了老师的建议都不选某专业，导致人才稀缺，不容易成功的专业变成了容易成功的。比如四年前金融危机，所以很多学校建议学生不要选金融专业，但是现在金融危机过去了，市场恢复繁荣，金融行业对人才的需求变大了，毕业生却少了，竞争压力也就少了，这个专业反倒成了很容易成功的专业。

Moreover, it is also not wise for universities and colleges to arbitrarily judge whether one will or will not be succeed in a given field. 学生是在不断成长变化的，就算他们选专业的时候没有某些技能因而不适合某专业，他们也可以通过后天的努力来改进。我一个同学在中学阶段数学成绩不好，老师建议他以后选择文科专业，但是他喜欢数学，于是去了英国读书，现在在牛津大学数学系，已有数学方面的研究成果。

While some people believe that schools should make suggestions for students about their learning fields, I believe it still should be students' responsibility to make their own choices.每一个学生在学校里学习的过程中其实不仅是要学知识，还应该学习理智的进行思考。而他们做选择取舍的时候，也应该是锻炼或者说实践他们思考能力最好的机会。所以，无论是选择容易学成的专业还是不容易学成的专业，都应该是学生自己的选择。


文章前半的思路勉强算是分情况讨论的思路，先是驳斥学校因为某个专业很不容易成功而阻止学生选择，再是驳斥学校因为学生不适合某个专业而阻止学生选择（参考了前面同学的思路哈）。然后是驳斥别人可能提出的学校应该给学生建议的观点。有一个concern就是文章前半和后面回应别人的质疑我是从不同的角度写的，不知道这样是不是inconsistent？

恳请老师再次点评，谢谢！！

max940623UID：3559548

写的第一篇提纲，借鉴了二楼的很多部分而且没有实际例子，希望老师不会被我恶心到;P

关键词：Educational, dissuade (guide), field, unlikely to succeed (success)

TS:
It’s generally known that the educational institutions should undertake the responsibility to guide the students and prevent them from going astray.
However, just based on the judgment that in particular field an individual won't succeed, dissuading him from this field is unacceptable. Firstly, the accuracy of the judgment deserve the doubt. In addition, due to the substance of education, this right should not be granted even if the judgment is correct.

Ts’ + Ts’’
Admittedly, the educational institutions with experience may have a greater chance to locate their students’ current strength and weakness, therefore some of advice from them could lead the students to the correct path. 举例曾经有谁曾在不适合自己的领域学习，收到导师指点才找到合适的（杨振宁？）
Nevertheless, in this case the educator provide students with suggestion on an alternative field rather than coercively dissuade the previous one. 攻击之前的让步 是提供自己认为更好的建议给学生而非强硬反对

Ts1
In fact, there is a large possibility that the teacher’s assertion may be wrong. As personal growth is a continuous progress, the temporary disappointing performance could not certainly indicate the failure in future. 举例，谁一开始不被看好，后来逆袭

Ts2 definition of education
Furthermore, one of the substance of the education is to support the self-discovery. 和世俗意义的成功相比，教育应该更加重视学生的个性化发展。对这个领域的兴趣很可能弥补天分上的不足。

Ts3 definition of success
不确定加上这部分是否合适，我想说“成功”这个名词本身就很抽象。题目论述中的成功明显限定在名利成果这些世俗性定义，在教育学上人生观上都应该有不同解读。

tesolchinaUID：2191404

max940623 发表于 2014-10-26 20:32
写的第一篇提纲，借鉴了二楼的很多部分而且没有实际例子，希望老师不会被我恶心到

关键词：Educationa ...

感谢加入，请抽空站内信回答以下问题-

寄托GRE考生背景调查

以前是否考过GRE作文，分数如何？托福作文？

下次考试日期？ 考前还可以写多少道题的提纲和全文？  

期待的分数？

谈谈对1+3模型的看法。

觉得自己的issue和argument最大的问题分别是什么？

对于我的指导有何期待或要求？

对于我在版面针对其他同学的批改、指导有何意见？

max940623UID：3559548

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-26 20:37
感谢加入，请抽空站内信回答以下问题-

寄托GRE考生背景调查

谢谢老师，已PM

tesolchinaUID：2191404

max940623 发表于 2014-10-26 20:32
写的第一篇提纲，借鉴了二楼的很多部分而且没有实际例子，希望老师不会被我恶心到

关键词：Educationa ...

3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.   

写的第一篇提纲，借鉴了二楼的很多部分而且没有实际例子，希望老师不会被我恶心到

关键词：Educational, dissuade (guide), field, unlikely to succeed (success)

TS:
It’s generally known that the educational institutions should undertake the responsibility to guide the students and prevent them from going astray.
However, just based on the judgment that in particular field an individual won't succeed, dissuading him from this field is unacceptable. Firstly, the accuracy of the judgment deserve the doubt 搭配问题. In addition, due to the substance 选词 of education, this right should not be granted 表达模糊  直接说学校不应该如何 even if the judgment is correct.





Ts’ + Ts’’
这是什么意思？

Admittedly, the educational institutions with experience (of what?) may have a greater chance to locate their students’ current strength and weakness, therefore some of advice from them could lead the students to the correct path. 举例曾经有谁曾在不适合自己的领域学习，收到导师指点才找到合适的（杨振宁？）
Nevertheless, in this case the educator provide students with suggestion on an alternative field rather than coercively dissuade 为什么要加上coersively?   the previous one. 攻击之前的让步 是提供自己认为更好的建议给学生而非强硬反对


你下面的三个主题句串在一起未能形成一个整合的观点  
第二点不是定义教育 而是澄清教育的目的 这个点可以和成功的定义一起讨论
这道题你还要再想一下  目前还没有一个令人信服的整体观点


Ts1
In fact, there is a large possibility 表达 that the teacher’s assertion (prediction) may be wrong. As personal growth is a continuous progress, the temporary 词性 disappointing performance （这个和预测之间的关系需要指明） could not certainly indicate the failure in future. 举例，谁一开始不被看好，后来逆袭


Ts2 definition of education
Furthermore, one of the substance of the education is to support the self-discovery. 和世俗意义的成功相比，教育应该更加重视学生的个性化发展。对这个领域的兴趣很可能弥补天分上的不足。

Ts3 definition of success
不确定加上这部分是否合适，我想说“成功”这个名词本身就很抽象。题目论述中的成功明显限定在名利成果这些世俗性定义，在教育学上人生观上都应该有不同解读。