(7.8号德勤实习)浅谈一下我自己关于Ivey＋MSc Business Analytics＋BA就业

ChillZ_ZUID：3344614

kuyigougou 发表于 2016-7-21 10:32
自然是R，SAS，Python了，会了这几个，VBA完全可以自学，没什么东西

嗯 谢谢版大哈！

ChillZ_ZUID：3344614

nkotb 发表于 2016-7-21 06:07
R and Python...

谢谢nkotb大大！

小雪同学UID：3673323

My boss just finished the BA program of Queen's. You can choose to take courses at DT Toronto, not necessary to go to Kingston. Queen's courses have some contents of Big Data technology, it introduces different big data platforms including Apache Spark, Hadoop, Scala, but just on the level of getting some basic concepts, which is still very far away from being a data scientist.

If you wanted to do data science, from the perspective of programming language, Python would be the first choice. SAS is very user friendly (although I think its macro logic does not make a lot sense),  but it is more a tool for analysis. SQL is the database management tool, R is more statistic oriented. The power of Python is it allows you to program on the big-data platform, which the other two languages cannot easily achieve. With Python, you could build something called data pipeline to do one-stop analysis, from extracting lively data, cleaning data, aggregate table to the data visulization in your reporting dashboard. I used to see the visual chart made by Under Armor data scientist team using Python, it is very fancy, way better than any point-and-click visualization tool like Tableau.  

I can generally introduce the structure of analytics/BI team in the company. For me, I am doing operatational analytics, we have a team of about 60 people to cover the field service KPI reporting and ad-hoc analysis. All of our analysts' title is Business Intelligence. Firstly, we have ETL team which will extract, transpose and load data from different database and generate aggregate table. Most of them are technicial background, their job is more like data science. Unfortunately, although the outside world has been changed so much, our ETL is still based on SAS and SQL server. We are always tortured by the slow speed of server if the dataset was too big. I used to see how fast big data tool like Spark is. They run 10 Gigbyte tables with Spark, and it only takes 20 min, which is inimaginable with our server.

Then we have analysis team that are doing all the KPI reporting and ad-hoc analysis. They are using SAS, but not that much. They use a lot of Excel, VBA, PPT, Cube developed by ETL and visualization tools (we use Tableau in our company). Then our team is between ETL and analysts. We do not get in touch too much with server or extract data, but we use the raw table to generate new aggregate tables. So the major part of our job is programming in SAS and conducting data mining.

Honestly speaking, data science is really cool job but analysts are not that much fancy. It pretty much like any other analysts except you need to use different tools (maybe some programming) because the size of data you analyze is larger than before. Another I want to mention is the reporting analyst is not well-paid job, I knew quite a few people with that role and the average salary is only around 23-25 per hour. BI is not bad, of course data scientist would be the best in payment.

kuyigougouUID：3066207

小雪同学 发表于 2016-7-21 22:53
My boss just finished the BA program of Queen's. You can choose to take courses at DT Toronto, not n ...

欢迎大神光临，大神是在做BI或者BA的工作么？求认识。。。

nkotbUID：2208953

kuyigougou 发表于 2016-7-20 21:31
这么说大神最后去UWO了吗？还是说之前是UWO的? Queen Simth是有MMA不是BA，但是其实很类似的课程

Still going to Queen's. But my major is management science which is very similar to BA, just maybe a little more theoretical. In fact the director of the MMA program is a management science prof. And the MMA curriculum has stuff like supply chain, pricing, decision models, all typical MS/OR topics, plus stats and big data focus. It's like a chicken soup! :)

I think BI/data science is def good stuff, it is going to be very useful, so it is a good field to get into IMHO (also why I chose it over biostats). Even ASA(american statistical association) had many discussions surrounding data science and stated it is here to stay for sure. Right now a lot of data science is done by computer scientists, I think one of the possibility in future is there will be more and more stats people because fancier models will start to show up in big data analytics.

As long as these programs can place the students into the right positions, they will have a great career. Please share with us how the job market feels like when you are on the market!

kuyigougouUID：3066207

nkotb 发表于 2016-7-22 00:08
Still going to Queen's. But my major is management science which is very similar to BA, just may ...

好的，我会持续更新的，Queen在加拿大的reputation也是没话说的，特别是Simth商学院

cheesechanUID：3505689

kuyigougou 发表于 2016-7-7 00:51
这专业本科没有呢，有也意义不大，国外商科在本科阶段都是很general 的，然后自己选一些方向来specialize ...

[off topic]
just for curiosity, given that 本科读的就是金融数学, why didn't you choose to read an MFE (e.g. Toronto MMF, Waterloo MQF), but go towards business analytics?
is this due to the market condition / career prospect, or personal interest or whatever?
[/off topic]

kuyigougouUID：3066207

cheesechan 发表于 2016-7-22 00:28
[off topic]
just for curiosity, given that 本科读的就是金融数学, why didn't you choose to read an ...

这个有很多原因，一个ivey给的奖学金比较多，但这不是主要的，主要是家里不希望我读纯数理路线的职业道路因为父母都是这方面的，希望我读商学院，上述两个项目都不再商学院，而且加上我自己并不想走纯quant路线，对business和finance兴趣更多一些； 这里面还有个原因是加拿大是job market，你读MMF，MFE就业当然没问题，因为加拿大就两个项目，而且录取标准还很高，但是读出来并不是你想象的高大上的投行或者对冲基金，加拿大这方面的需求并不大，大多数MMF和MFE出来就是去银行做risk management的后台工作，薪水不错但在金融行业里面属于潜力不大的领域，如果真想走金工，金数路线还是要去美国读，美国这方面机会多很多

顺便提一下，商学院在领域内的network优势不是上述两个项目所在的数学学院能比的，UT的经济学院和商院合作的MFE项目你如果去查一下就会发现比UT 的MMF（因为在数院）的placement和salary要高出非常多，而且network也好很多，当然不是看不起其他学院，只是说商院本身就是为就业准备的，跟工业界最接轨的一个学院

nkotbUID：2208953

kuyigougou 发表于 2016-7-21 11:16
好的，我会持续更新的，Queen在加拿大的reputation也是没话说的，特别是Simth商学院

cheesechanUID：3505689

kuyigougou 发表于 2016-7-22 00:35
这个有很多原因，一个ivey给的奖学金比较多，但这不是主要的，主要是家里不希望我读纯数理路线的职业道 ...

agree with the first part.

but:
1. do think that business school helps, but as far as I saw, personality plays a even bigger role (unless the business program comes with co-op / internship)
2. as far as I heard, Rotman had terminated their career support to the MFE in terms, leaving coursework alone, for quite some years.

kuyigougouUID：3066207

cheesechan 发表于 2016-7-22 16:02
agree with the first part.

but:

BA项目是带实习的，然后MFE虽然rotman没有直接career help了，但是经济学院加上之前已经建立的良好的network关系，实际上这个项目已经基本上算是加拿大投行target program了，rotman据我问这边投行的人，只能算half target，不过怎么也比数学学院下面的MMF的业界强上一档，你可以去quant论坛上看看老外的对这两个项目的看法，基本上都是说MFE有更好的plancement和salary，MMF也很好，但方向基本上做risk

如果国内直接过来读研究生商院的话，的确不带实习的项目肯定不能选，不过如果本科就是这边的熟悉这边的玩法的加上擅长跟人交流的话其实不带实习的也可以的，比如很多公司会到商院network event加上到商院进行校园招聘，这都是商院的优势，我就认识朋友在network event认识了HR留下印象，后来几次约咖啡谈话后，毕业直接去了那家公司

nkotbUID：2208953

kuyigougou 发表于 2016-7-21 11:35
这个有很多原因，一个ivey给的奖学金比较多，但这不是主要的，主要是家里不希望我读纯数理路线的职业道 ...

But wouldn't analytics be quite technical as well?

My frenemy/ex-house mate is a Director at Analytics in a major bank in Toronto, from what I hear at the dinner table, mostly what they do is marketing (I guess there are other areas of analytics going on as well). You provide insights on measurable outcomes to the decision makers. It is not the core part of the banking is it? I am not familiar with the financial sector, but I think for any sector, unless the technical role touches the core part of the service/business, there's not a lot of chance you can get into management, of course I assumed that's your goal.

But then again, everything depends.

kuyigougouUID：3066207

nkotb 发表于 2016-7-23 00:34
But wouldn't analytics be quite technical as well?

My frenemy/ex-house mate is a Director at  ...

是的，BA也是很technical的，但是MMF更quant向，特别在加拿大基本就业方向锁定在risk这块了，BA出来就业范围更广，而且有一定的灵活度，做传统的business analyst也行的，而且在商院下面我可以选修一些general business的课，我的想法不是说不想做技术方向，而是我想就业面更广，能力更综合一些，因为无论是finance还是business里，真正的hard skill运用的地方都不是核心领域正如大神所说，但是如果你具备了hard skill同时也有soft skill和business的思维习惯，我觉得对未来的发展更有利，可能我想法是错误的，做技术的就应该搞纯技术方向，做商的就走纯商，中间学科反而两遍都不讨好也是可能的

nkotbUID：2208953

kuyigougou 发表于 2016-7-22 11:52
是的，BA也是很technical的，但是MMF更quant向，特别在加拿大基本就业方向锁定在risk这块了，BA出来就业范 ...

No I think it is definitely a good idea to acquire a unique skill set. The challenge for the more general directions is the lack of specific skill that earns you the first job in the industry. The challenge for the very technical career paths however is how you position yourself in mid career. You can't stay on technical positions forever and expect a lot of room of progression. So in that a combination of general business and technical skills might be good, as long as you can get your foot in the door. (But again I think data analytics anything is hot on market right now so you should be OK)

But as you said there are definitely other options than financial sectors if you do business analytic. Healthcare, marketing, technical consulting, etc. you name it. My two cents is however only when you are in tech consulting you are doing the core part of the business and that's where you have the most power in a firm because you are the front desk people generating revenue. But it is not the best industry bc you are always the service provider. All I am saying is I think it is safe to assume you should be able to find a job as BA after you graduate, but where do you go after a couple years is a big question and which sector you set your foot in after you graduate might make a difference. Just my two cents.

nkotbUID：2208953

kuyigougou 发表于 2016-7-22 11:52
是的，BA也是很technical的，但是MMF更quant向，特别在加拿大基本就业方向锁定在risk这块了，BA出来就业范 ...

RE: MMF doing risks, very interesting... Again I am completely ignorant about financial stuff, but I have lot of classmates/friends working in risks because we are statisticians. You can work in risks after doing biostat...