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[备考小组] Issue79 The best test of an argument is its ability to convince someone [复制链接]

杨家齐
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电梯直达

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发表于 2014-12-3 01:40:06 |只看该作者 |倒序浏览

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79) Claim: The best test of an argument is its ability to convince someone with an opposing viewpoint.
Reason: Only by being forced to defend an idea against the doubts and contrasting views of others does one really discover the value of that idea.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim and the reason on which that claim is based.

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杨家齐
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沙发

发表于 2014-12-3 01:41:43 |只看该作者

原题：79) Claim: The best test of an argument is its ability to convince someone with an opposing viewpoint.
Reason: Only by being forced to defend an idea against the doubts and contrasting views of others does one really discover the value of that idea.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim and the reason on which that claim is based.

我的思路：只有在满足以下三个条件时，双方才能从辩论中获益。1，双方的基本立场和价值观要一致；2，双方表达观点的方式是友好的，易于接受的；3，双方都是本着达成共识的目的进行辩论的。

讨论后的思路：同意reason但claim成立的条件取决于这个judge（即需要被说服的这个人someone with an opposing viewpoint）是否qualified。1，第一个条件是态度要open-minded & rational；第二个条件是双方价值观和方法论（或education背景知识）要统一，反例天文学家和伪科学家；第三个条件是双方没有利益冲突，反例跟National Rifle Association of America会长讨论合法持有rifle的合法性。

规律和方法：1，我们提出的中心论点要去考察题目成立的具体情况test argument；2，要善于抓题目中词与词之间的衔接，如本题中，claim的意思是用convince someone的方法来defend自己的idea；3，将题目的概念放到具体场景去展开，将30字的一个题目扩充成300字去理解。

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tesolchina
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板凳

发表于 2014-12-3 20:33:33 |只看该作者

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abaczan
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地板

发表于 2015-4-22 15:55:30 |只看该作者

tesolchina 发表于 2014-12-3 20:33
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王老师：对这道题目没有什么合适的思路，不知道能否指导一下。

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夜锦葵su
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5楼

发表于 2015-5-2 16:35:53 |只看该作者

ISSUE 练习求指正
Basically, I agree with the reason while doubt the claim above. （同意reason不同意claim）

I had always thought that sport is beneficial for the relationship between nations is self-evident, not until one day I heard the opinion that when local patriotism is involved, it is impossible to play sports simply for the fun and exercise. This opposite view aroused my attention to points that I had neglected and forced me to think my opinion over and find evidence for it. Since then, I realize that without challenging and comparing with other opinions, ideas are only assertions in one’s mind with little value.（举例说明为什么同意reason, 就是听到不同意见才开始思考，意见不经过与其他意见的比较就只能是断言）

On the basis of this idea, some people deduct that convincing someone standing in the opposite side will be the best examination of an opinion. However, there is a vital assumption under this claim needs to be point out, that is, rationality.（但是reason不能推断claim，因为claim成立需要理性作为前提）

Since Ancient Greek, rationality has always been treasured as the most important spirit of argument, which means that people’s reasoning is based on facts and logic. That’s why during our academic training in the university, we should always find supporting materials that are reliable for our opinions. On the other hand, our ideas will only be threatened when we facing critiques that are also based on good evidence. Therefore, in the course of persuading others and accepting ideas, rationality is the supreme factor to test the validity of an argument.（理性是判别是否是好ARGUMENT的最重要的因素，就是是否有事实和逻辑的支撑）

It is worth noting that under some circumstances, people are persuaded by opposite opinions yet the argument is not rational or even bad. Let’s see the case of the advertising. After watching the inane but moving advertisement of some luxury goods, the audience begins to believe that they can become as elegant and shining as the stars on the screen. Yet the marketing argument is only a good manipulation of human’s psychology instead of good reasoning. Moreover, some arguments are beyond rational discussions. Religion is the most appropriate example. The conversion of religion might happen after being convinced by the preachers’ words, but it is impossible and unnecessary to find evidence for the argument. On the other hand, sometimes the acceptance of opposite view is not because of realizing the good reasoning for that opinion but other emotional aspects. We acknowledge opinions of people who succeed for their authorities; we believe in what our idols say out of our fanatic love without any questioning. We can learn from these examples, that the consequence, one’s success in convincing people with opposite view, can neither guarantee the rationality of the persuader or the persuaded one. Hence it cannot be a good test for an argument.（在某些情况下，即便成功说服了异见者，也不代表是好的argu。一方面，说服者可能运用了对心理的运用，有些说服也是理性能探讨的范围例如宗教；另一方面，被说服者可能是出于盲目的崇拜或者热爱，而不是对reason过程的肯定）

To sum up, like the philosopher John Mill said, ideas are like commodities in the market, through competition with others, it can always find its value. Nevertheless, this good reason cannot support the idea that the success of persuasion is a good test for arguments, since rationality is the soul of arguing and it can only be examined during every procedure. （总结，理性是argument的灵魂，但它无法通过说服的结果来考察，只能在每一个步骤。）

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hezl09
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6楼

发表于 2015-8-24 19:03:26 |只看该作者

我的观点：基本反对。很多时候我们是无法说服对方的，这并不是观点不够好的问题，而是双方的利益考量、知识水平/认识水平、宗教/文化背景决定的，而且有的时候对方的态度根本就不是来辩论，而是顽固的死守自己的立场。当然，必须要承认，有很多好的观点确实能够做到让理性的反对者改变态度接受观点。
The speaker claims that the best test of an argument is its ability to convince someone with an opposing viewpoint. Admittedly, many wonderful ideas holds the effects to make opponents accept them, only if the arguing side are reasonable. In lots of cases, we cannot persuade the other side no matter how great the idea is, due to the incompatibility of two sides in interests, knowledge backgrounds or religious backgrounds. So, from these consideration, I cannot agree with the speaker’s claim about the best test of an argument.
Some philosophers assert that we human beings are interest animal, and it is human nature to protect the vested interest from being changed. Though somewhat cynical, such claim due reflects the difficulties and risks to touch the interest of people, no matter how just and rational advice they are exposed to. A case in point lies in the American Civil War. So reasonable and charitable was the claim raised by the North to emancipate the slaves, it violated the southern economy interests, which largely depended on the slaves to grow and process cotton. A resistance to protect their interest finally turned into the Civil War, which means the South refused to accept the North viewpoint to free slaves and replied with a war. Such a case illustrate that human beings are so die-hard protecting their own viewpoints when interests are threatened, thus we cannot expect to convince them with opposing viewpoint in such situations.（损害利益的情况下，很难说服对方。用美国内战期间的例子。虽然废奴是一项很合理的政策，但黑奴对于南方的经济利益很重要，种植棉花需要黑奴，因而南方不同意废奴。）
Besides, the cognition of human beings are constrained by their knowledge circle. When a person is so poor in scientific and literature knowledge, it’s hard to convince them with new ideas, especially when such ideas contradict with their previous cognitions. When the Geocentric Theory first raised by Copernicus, he met difficulties spreading such theory in the crowd because ordinary people were long convinced of the heliocentric theory, and necessary scientific knowledge were lacked for them to realize the rightness of Copernicus’ theory. Copernicus is not the sole case, resistance to Darwin and his Theory of Evolution was even more obstinate when it was first raised. Without appropriate biology knowledge background, ordinary people deeply believed that we human beings were created by the god, and they just repelled the Darwin’s theory. Pioneer scientists such as Copernicus and Darwin surly met obstacles to convince ordinary people with their revolutionary new theories, while it never means that such new theories are not among the best viewpoints.（知识水平的限制。人的认知受到知识水平的限制。高水平的人提出的新理论不一定能被低水平的人接受。选用哥白尼和达尔文的例子。）
Religious factors also influence a person to accept some viewpoints, no matter how reasonable the viewpoints are. Pork, with high protein and easily access, are prohibited from eating among the Muslims. It never works, even offensive, to persuade them to eat pork, although it’s delicious food for other people. For strict Catholics, premarital sex are prohibited, so convince them with the innocence of premarital sex will never work, though it’s a widely acceptable cognition in current world. In such cases involved with religious factors, we cannot account for the acceptance of our viewpoints from the other side.（宗教因素的影响。穆斯林不吃猪肉，严格的天主教徒禁止婚前性行为，很难说服他们放弃自己的观点。）
What’s more, for some people who are too unenlightened to change their minds, the protection of their own viewpoints are just psychology protections, which has no relation to the rationality and quality of the viewpoints. In such cases, we certainly can not view the acceptance from opponents as an indicator of the viewpoint quality.（此外，对一些并不理性的人来讲，死守观点只是一种心理防卫。）
Meanwhile, a viewpoint surly belongs to the best viewpoints if it can gain the supports from the opposite side. Human are prone to guard their own viewpoints, and what makes those sensible people give up their previous viewpoints is the strength of the opposite viewpoints. Such strength gives such viewpoints magic power, lists them among the best viewpoints. Among such cases is the preferable of market economy than planned economy, which made socialistic China in 1970s reform its original planned economy to the so called capitalistic market economy, and now it brings boom to China.（让步，承认能够让对方承认的观点肯定是好观点，比如中国的经济改革，市场经济让中国放弃原有的计划经济路子。）
From all these considerations, I arrive at a conclusion that although some wonderful ideas can lead opponents to acceptance, in general we can not make the acceptance from the opposite side as an indicator of the quality of a viewpoint.