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[优秀习作] issue88 详细讨论 [复制链接]

runnerio
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电梯直达

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发表于 2004-3-16 22:11:00 |只看该作者 |倒序浏览

------题目------
Technologies not only influence but actually determine social customs and ethics.
------正文------
With the rapid development of technology and science, both human beings' material life and spirit life has experienced a fantastic change, including some social customs and traditions. Thus someone claims that technologies not only influence but actually determine social customs and ethics. While I maintain that technologies indeed exert immense influence on some of people's social customs and impose unprecedented impact on the ethics of society, I do not agree that technology determine social customs and ethics.

These days, many conventions, some of which even continue for many generations, have been altered or even eliminated along with the raped development of technology. People’s spirits and thoughts usually change with the situation, which imposes a great influence on human beings, otherwise they may find that they have been outdated or cannot adapt themselves to the new society. For example, women, in past days, cannot go out to work and must stay at home to tend the children and their husbands and other family members; if some women try to break such barrier, they will receive discrimination and derision. And this is very common and normal in the contemporary society, in which that women cannot equate with men is a prevalent thought. However, nowadays, someone will be blamed even prosecuted, if he/she discriminates women, who now have the freedom to work outside, to do what he or she like and has the same right as men, which illustrate that some of our social customs have changed.

Also, some parts of the ethic in the society has received far-reaching impact from the technologies. Clone, for instance, a very hot issue in current days, has brought in many moral controversies and problems .On the one hand, it indeed has some advantages for human beings, for example, doctors can utilize clone technology to reproduce some human organs which can be used to save patients' lives. However, the ethic problems emerge. Consider that, for example, if some scientists clone a person, then how can we define their relationship-father and son, or brothers, or other correlations? And how can they inherit the bequests, enjoy human rights and so forth? .In short, ethic problems has indeed boomed these days for the reason of technology.

However, some social customs and ethics have received no influence from the development of technology. The Saint Valentine’s Day, for example, lovers will exchange gifts to their sweethearts---rose, chocolate, and so on, which has never changed with the technology; one is not likely to find that a gentleman send a CD to his girlfriend for the technology has developed to a digital world. And the ethics are even more stable, for long era, humans think honesty, fortitude, high moral standard, etc ,are very crucial virtues one should cherish, which has never changed with the development of the technology. One cannot say that, because the technology has influence humans much, then people must no longer be sincere, tenacious, and noble, but should tell lies, give up if encountering difficulties, and pursue one's goal via mean ways. Generally speaking, many social customs and ethics have not received impact from the technology.

And I insist that technology is not likely to determine social customs and ethics, even impossible. Human beings, often living in a special culture, have formed their own value systems, and are not likely to choose some technology inventions which may conflict with their beliefs and convictions, namely for protecting their own culture and values, they will not accept some controversial technology. Turn to the examples in the above paragraph that people do not permit the absolute development of clone technology just due to their primitive ethics standards, which hold that the social relationships between the person and his copies will drop in chaos and may bring in more social problems. That is, it is humans who determine their moral standard, not the technology, which, at most, can merely offer some impact on humans' social lives.

To summarize, technologies indeed impose some effect on some of people's social traditions and ethics; however, they cannot determine human's customs and ethics. Only human beings themselves can determine their traditions, nothing could change it.

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paisley
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沙发

发表于 2004-3-16 23:07:28 |只看该作者

https://bbs.gter.net/bbs/search.p ... ortorder=descending

这里全都是写这篇作文的，你可以参考。主要参考别人的评语（如果你来不及看那些全文的话），如果是精华区或者优秀习作区内的文章值得全部看

UA
我说人生哪，如果赏过一回痛哭淋漓的风景，写一篇杜鹃啼血的文章，与一个赏心悦目的人错肩，也就够了。不要收藏美、钤印美，让美随风而逝。生命最清醉的时候，是将万里长江视为一匹白绢，裂帛。(简桢)

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paisley
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板凳

发表于 2004-3-16 23:12:25 |只看该作者

我觉得你立论是可以的，因为这个题目要赞成它就太难写了。

但是你的文章在支持原论点上花了太多笔墨，整整两段，给人感觉你好象是赞成它的一样。而且那两段更像是说科技进步给人带来的好处，而和social customs and ethics. 实在关系不大。有点偏题。

你需要在驳论的部分加强笔墨。

希望你也能多多修改其他朋友的文章。尤其是提点结构上和想法上的建议。因为你不可能每个题目都练过来啊，看别人的题目，自己脑子过一遍,既可以给别人提建议，自己又多了一次训练的机会.为别人服务的人优先得到斑竹的修改哦！

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taft
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地板

发表于 2004-3-16 23:38:15 |只看该作者

With the rapid development of technology and science, both human beings' material life and spirit life has experienced a fantastic change, including some social customs and traditions. Thus someone claims that technologies not only influence but actually determine social customs and ethics. While I maintain that technologies indeed exert immense influence on some of people's social customs and impose unprecedented impact on the ethics of society, I do not agree that technology determine social customs and ethics.

These days, many conventions, some of which even continue for many generations, have been altered or even eliminated along with the raped development of technology. People’s spirits and thoughts usually change with the situation, which imposes a great influence on human beings, otherwise they may find that they have been outdated or cannot adapt themselves to the new society. For example, women, in past days in the past, cannotdo not allowed to go out to work and but must stay at home to tend raise the their children and tend their husbands and or other family members; if some get rid of ‘some’ women try to break such barrier, they will receive discrimination and derisionfrom the society. And this is still very common and normal in the contemporary society, in which get rid of which that women cannot equate with men is a prevalent thought. However, nowadays, someone will be blamed even prosecuted, if he/she discriminates women, who now have the freedom to work outside, to do what whatever he or she likes and has the same right as men, which illustrates that some of our social customs have changed.这段论述change，但你没有谈到technologies啊？你举的妇女地位的例子很好，但没有点明和technologies的关系哦，到底technologies change了什么？人们的观念怎么联系到technologies. 我建议你做一个推理，technologies make education widely available, enhance modern mass media and facility wide exchange of ideas and value system. Thus they transform not only new ways of living but novel ways of thinking.

Also, some parts of the ethic in the society has have received far-reaching impact from theget rid of the technologies. Clone, for instance, a very hot issue in current days, has brought in many moral controversies and problems .On the one hand,on one hand it indeed has some advantages for human beings, for example, 和前面的 for instance 重复了可以写成such as the benefit that doctors can utilize clone technology try ‘it’ to reproduce some human organs which can be used to save patients' lives to replace malfunction parts for living saving. However, the ethic problems emerge. Consider that, for example,又重复啦 if some scientists clone a person, then how can we define their relationship-father and son, or brothers, or other correlations? And how can they inherit the bequests, enjoy human rights and so forth? .这个的ethic problem好像不太明显吧，如果clone出hitler 那就爽了，其实clone很大的一个conflict 是with religion , 因为公然藐视创世者哦In short, ethic problems has indeed boomed these days for the reason of technology.
不够insightful, example is somewhat short and vague

However, some social customs and ethics have received no influence from the development of technology. The Saint Valentine’s Day, for example, lovers will exchange gifts to their sweethearts---rose, chocolate, and so on, which has never changed with the technology; one is not likely to find that a gentleman send a CD to his girlfriend for the technology technologies hashave developed to a digital world. And the ethics are even more stable, for long era,一个长的时代？？ humans think honesty, fortitude, high moral standard,好像没有平行其哦？high moral standard includes honesty and fortitude as I think etc ,are very crucial virtues one should cherish, which has never changed with the development of the technology. One cannot say that, because the technology has influence humans much, then people must no longer be sincere, tenacious, and noble, but should tell lies, give up if encountering difficulties, and pursue one's goal via mean ways. Generally speaking, many social customs and ethics have not received impact from the technology.该把中心转到determine来啦，technologies 不能determine saint valentine’s day很好的例子啊，还可以举中国的春节，Moon day mid Autumn day, 一些racial activities啊。关于道德还是避免为好，主观太强。看看《手机》就知道了）

And I insist that technology is not likely to determine social customs and ethics, even impossible. Human beings, often living in a special culture, have formed their own value systems, and are not likely to choose some technology inventions which may conflict with their beliefs and convictions, namely for protecting their own culture and values, they will not accept some controversial technology. Turn to the examples in the above paragraph that people do not permit the absolute development of clone technology just due to their primitive ethics standards, which hold that the social relationships between the person and his copies will drop in chaos and may bring in more social problems. That is, it is humans who determine their moral standard, not the technology, which, at most, can merely offer some impact on humans' social lives.和上一段合并一下如何？文章太长而没实际的东西觉得写短点好哦：

To summarize, technologies indeed impose some effect on some of people's social traditions and ethics; however, they cannot determine human's customs and ethics. Only human beings themselves can determine their traditions,why? You should discuss some thing on that if you have time nothing could change it.

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runnerio
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5楼

发表于 2004-3-17 17:28:00 |只看该作者

To paisley:
谢谢你的意见，：）
只是我对原文是部分同意，部分反对啊，而且我的论点也指明了这一点，然后按照论点论证，应该不算跑题吧。
一个题目，如果说同意的部分多一些，重点就要放在支持上，再来个让步；而反对多一些，就需要把重点放在驳论上，同意的部分要注明限定范围，是吗？那么对于同意一部分，比如这题中的科技影响了人类的一部分风俗和伦理，反对一部分，比如科技不能决定人类的风俗和伦理，文章地重点应该放在何处呢？
希望您能进一步解释以下，：）期待ing

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runnerio
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6楼

发表于 2004-3-17 17:58:06 |只看该作者

To taft:
首先谢谢你的批改，：）
从你的批改中可以看出，无论在论证还是语言上你都很强啊，：）希望能拜读你的大作。
我还有一些看法，希望能跟你探讨以下：
1。body1我在论点后先说了随着科技的发展人们的意识会跟着变否则就落后于时代了，准备为后文妇女地位得到提升作铺垫。这是不是不能算没有将妇女地位的变化与科技联系起来呢？我看了你的论证方式，你把它与教育和媒体联系起来，具体的论证了科技是怎么带来妇女地位变化的，我仔细想了一下，觉得我的太笼统了，还是你那样证比较好，谢谢你，：）
2。body2将克隆与宗教联系起来的话，我觉得是不是不太合适，毕竟再当今这个时代，很多人都已不再相信神造人了，如果我说克隆是对这种宗教观点的挑战，那只能说他给宗教学带来了冲击而并不是人们普遍都信宗教呀，也就是说打击面就没有我的人类复杂的社会观念广了，你觉得呢？
3。我也觉得我的论点有点乱七八糟的感觉，因为我想说的是，人类的有些风俗和伦理受到冲击，有些却并没有受影响，进一步我说科技不可能决定伦理，这一段我主要是从说理方面来论述的，即人类的传统文化决定了他们不可能接受对自己的伦理有冲击的科技，这也是为什么人们现在还不能接受克隆的原因。我现在想想我的body3还不如不要，省得罗嗦。直接说科技能影响不能决定人类风俗与伦理，你觉得这样如何呢？
4。这种题目，我觉得说理真的很困难，只好老是举例子，可是全举例子，又觉得全文太单薄。想问一下，对于这种题目你一般是从哪里切入呢？想听听你的看法。：）
再次感谢你的批改，：）bow.

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paisley
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7楼

发表于 2004-3-17 19:08:33 |只看该作者

谢谢你的意见，：）
只是我对原文是部分同意，部分反对啊，而且我的论点也指明了这一点，然后按照论点论证，应该不算跑题吧。

我的意思是，你在“科技给人带来的好处”上花的笔墨太多，感觉你是在论证这一点，而不是在论证“决定人们的伦理风俗”，因为“科技给人带来的好处”和“伦理风俗”相差很远。

一个题目，如果说同意的部分多一些，重点就要放在支持上，再来个让步；而反对多一些，就需要把重点放在驳论上，同意的部分要注明限定范围，是吗？

是的，我认为是这样。

那么对于同意一部分，比如这题中的科技影响了人类的一部分风俗和伦理，反对一部分，比如科技不能决定人类的风俗和伦理，文章地重点应该放在何处呢？

你强调“影响”多的话，就在这上面多花笔墨，强调“不能决定”多的话，就在这部分多花笔墨，最好不要一半一半，因为其实我是比较反对中庸的立场的。其实你完全可以把你的立场写成这样：你反对论题，因为科技起的作用至多是“影响”而不是“决定”。这样两边就可以很好的衔接起来了。然后在“不是决定”这一点上多说一些。

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taft
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8楼

发表于 2004-3-17 22:17:37 |只看该作者

2。body2将克隆与宗教联系起来的话，我觉得是不是不太合适，毕竟再当今这个时代，很多人都已不再相信神造人了，如果我说克隆是对这种宗教观点的挑战，那只能说他给宗教学带来了冲击而并不是人们普遍都信宗教呀，也就是说打击面就没有我的人类复杂的社会观念广了，你觉得呢？

我所读到的关于clone的题材很多是和religion有关的。你有确实的evidence prove that 很多人不信仰神造论，但第一他们信仰上帝，相信上帝的存在，上帝安排好了一次我们不要以中国人的眼光来看问题；第二问题不光是生命的起始问题，还包括结束啊。在西方世界，大家对待死亡就仿佛去天堂－－很神圣的事情，但clone可以copy human being , 在某种意义上是生命的延续，不就很郁闷嘛？其他的就是技术本身问题，比如 produce using genetic technologies would be added some undesirable DNA slidesinto its original DNA structure and may in some extent result in unpredictable disasters. Further more, if terroists employ clone technologies......... 那么我突然想到religion不是custom 和ethics 的范畴了, 其实把clone嫁接到technologies上就可以通说technologies的demerits了：被terrorist利用, 人们不再畏惧death,crime就high, 不知道natural selective theory是不是scientific ethics ,那么这种用科技来select life就不符合nature law了。我想听听你的意见：）

人类的有些风俗和伦理受到冲击，有些却并没有受影响，进一步我说科技不可能决定伦理，这一段我主要是从说理方面来论述的，即人类的传统文化决定了他们不可能接受对自己的伦理有冲击的科技，这也是为什么人们现在还不能接受克隆的原因。我现在想想我的body3还不如不要，省得罗嗦。直接说科技能影响不能决定人类风俗与伦理，你觉得这样如何呢？

我所理解的不能determine是应为人不想lose their cultural identity: 每个人都想找到自己的归属，maintain本民族的custom就是让自己属于他那个民族。可以论证中国人，我们最熟悉，还有就是移民，努力吸收他的custom。这种个体到总体的synergy 就使custom 和ethics相对稳定，不知道对不对。合并一下，不然会重复：）

4。这种题目，我觉得说理真的很困难，只好老是举例子，可是全举例子，又觉得全文太单薄。想问一下，对于这种题目你一般是从哪里切入呢？想听听你的看法。：）

我喜欢推理，然后用例子，如果没例子就自己assume,比如clone的很多东西就使一个assume, logical thinking 的reasoning我比较喜欢，觉得例子是相对次要的（我积累的例子太少了）

有空也给我提点意见如何?我在这里打肿脸啦。呵呵

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runnerio
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9楼

发表于 2004-3-19 17:54:03 |只看该作者

To taft:
谢谢你,:)不好意思,这几天不太舒服, 没有上网, 现在才看到你的回复.
我又想了一下,有几点感触.
1.到底什么是伦理呢?我所认为的是人们所普遍认同的道德标准(不知道这个观点你是否同意), 那么无论是宗教,terrorism, 人们害不害怕death,还有crime之类的,全都是 clone给社会带来的非伦理方面的负面影响,而只有对道德的冲击才应该算是切题, 何谓道德, 克隆人跟他的主体到底算做什么关系, 他们如何分配自己的配偶,继承财产,在社会上的地位如何确定,以及随之而来的一大堆社会关系问题, 这才是与道德相关的呀.而人们是否觉得生命在某种形式上被延续了,是否自然选择理论被改变了, 这与伦理相关吗?他只能说是同时影响了一些思想或信仰, 以及一些自然法则.我是这样认为的,我觉得还是靠到人类的道德观念上来讲好一些.:)
2.你的第二个观点既科技不能决定风俗与伦理是因为人们要保存自己的文化身份我不是很懂,(anyway,感觉你象学哲学的,:)观点都好深奥:P),保护本民族的文化又怎么和科技联系起来呢?科技影响到了本民族的文化,进而威胁到了人们的文化认同感,人们为了保护自己的文化地位,所以抵制科技,所以科技不能决定风俗与伦理,是不是这个意思呀?或者说人们拼命的保护自己的文化风俗,让科技无可奈何还是怎么着?我感觉说不通呀,或者我没理解清楚, 你能再说详细点么?
3.我平时也是总说理,因为也是没例子举,:)不过感觉你知识面很广哦,想的要比我深也广一些,:)向你学习,:)
BTW:我现在去搜索你的文章,拜读一下了,呵呵,

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runnerio
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10楼

发表于 2004-3-19 21:12:12 |只看该作者

To paisley:
谢谢你,:)我现在觉得你那样论述确实要好一些,我回去重写一篇,:)

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11楼

发表于 2004-3-19 22:44:09 |只看该作者

人们要保存自己的文化身份我不是很懂

我就拿中国人来说吧，特别是年轻的一代，我们所代表的文化是什么？我们自己又是属于什么文化体系的？东方传统文化？细分：儒家文化，道教文化，还是其他什么的。少数民族也又自己的文化。如果自己说不出来是属于什么文化的他就lose identity了（一个简单的例子就是你的方言决定在一个culture group的认同）在这里我也不喜欢谈什么文化，感觉很烦，但对付ETS就是要小题大做