14年秋季提纲互改小组-issue 10

raikkonen36UID: 2871931

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-23 00:26
10) Nations should pass laws to preserve any remaining wilderness areas in their natural state, ev ...

谢谢王老师点评。

我在第二段的地方修改如下，其余不变. While, drafting relevant laws, wildness area can be effectively preserved, economic growth could be hindered by the restriction of such laws as well. If preserving remaining wilderness areas always needs to be at the cost of economic growth, it is not reasonable and some unfavorable results would be obtained. 经济发展非常重要，尤其是对不发达地区来说，如果一再错失这些机会的话，经济没有进步，又如何来保护环境呢。而且有可能引发其他社会问题，失业率上升以及随之而来的社会动乱。

不知道这次的怎么样？

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

raikkonen36 发表于 2014-10-23 10:15
谢谢王老师点评。

我在第二段的地方修改如下，其余不变. While, drafting relevant laws, wildness ar ...

我觉得你整个三段的主题句都要调整 然后主旨句也要跟着调整  
或许第一段你可以强调立法的重要性 可以给出指引 惩罚不好的行为等等 但是未必要全面preserve  也可以conserve

第二段讨论在某些地方 比如离重要经济区域比较远的 也没有什么资源的 地方 就应该立法preserve

第三段讨论在另外一些资源很丰富的地方应该conserve  

这样你就有了一个整合的观点

另外站内信发给你的背景调查 请抽空回答

raikkonen36UID: 2871931

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-23 11:44
我觉得你整个三段的主题句都要调整 然后主旨句也要跟着调整  
或许第一段你可以强调立法的重要性 可以给 ...

谢谢王老师提点。
It is necessary to pass laws to preserve remaining wilderness areas. Nonetheless, if, any area, even if the area which could be developed for economic gain, needs to be protected by laws, it would bring some problems. In fact, preserving remaining wilderness areas by drafting laws and keeping economic growth should be used for maintaining sustainable development.

第一段：说明Laws play a significant role in preserving wilderness areas. Along with rapid social development, human beings have brought disastrous effects on wilderness areas. Considering the importance of maintaining ecosystem balance, humans being should take serious steps preserve any remaining wilderness areas. No doubt that drafting law is an effective approach in preserving wilderness areas. 一是 通过制定法律让大家认识到这个的问题的严重性，二是法律可以利用它的威慑力来保护。

第二段：说明 however, if the area which could be developed for economic gain, needs to be protected by laws, it would not be reasonable and bring some problems. 经济发展非常重要，尤其是对不发达地区来说，如果一再错失这些机会的话，经济没有进步，又如何来保护环境呢。


第三段：说明preserving remaining wilderness areas by drafting laws and keeping economic growth should be used for maintaining sustainable development. 首先可以权衡在某个区域，保护环境和发展经济哪个更重要，这样就可以做出选择，即使很难做出权衡，或者几乎都一样重要，政府也可以指定其他措施，既可以保护环境，也可以发展经济。举例，举例青藏大桥的修建，不仅保护了环境，也推动了经济建设。


另外，我没有看到站内信。

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

raikkonen36 发表于 2014-10-23 14:40
谢谢王老师提点。
It is necessary to pass laws to preserve remaining wilderness areas. Nonetheless ...

好奇怪 应该是站内消息 请站内信回帖或回答

tesolchina: 关于你在“14年秋季提纲互改小组-issue62”的帖子
已点评你的提纲 有问题可以回帖
这个问卷 请抽空填一下

寄托GRE考生背景调查

以前是否考过GRE作文，分数如何？托福作文？

下次考试日期？ 考前还可以写多少道题的提纲和全文？  

期待的分数？

谈谈对1+3模型的看法。

觉得自己的issue和argument最大的问题分别是什么？

对于我的指导有何期待或要求？

对于我在版面针对其他同学的批改、指导有何意见？

raikkonen36UID: 2871931

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-23 15:16
好奇怪 应该是站内消息 请站内信回帖或回答

tesolchina: 关于你在“14年秋季提纲互改小组-issue62”的 ...

王老师，我给你发消息了，你看看，如果没有，你在联系我

还有你的点评意见我好像没看到啊

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

raikkonen36 发表于 2014-10-23 15:34
王老师，我给你发消息了，你看看，如果没有，你在联系我

还有你的点评意见我好像没看到啊

什么点评意见没看见？

raikkonen36UID: 2871931

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-24 20:22
什么点评意见没看见？

恩，就是这个修改，你看看。

It is necessary to pass laws to preserve remaining wilderness areas. Nonetheless, if the area which could be developed for economic gain needs to be protected by laws, it would bring some problems. In fact, preserving remaining wilderness areas by drafting laws and keeping economic growth should be used for maintaining sustainable development.

第一段：说明Laws play a significant role in preserving wilderness areas. Along with rapid social development, human beings have brought disastrous effects on wilderness areas. Considering the importance of maintaining ecosystem balance, humans being should take serious steps preserve any remaining wilderness areas. No doubt that drafting law is an effective approach in preserving wilderness areas. 一是 通过制定法律让大家认识到这个的问题的严重性，二是法律可以利用它的威慑力来保护。

第二段：说明 however, if the area which could be developed for economic gain, needs to be protected by laws, it would not be reasonable and bring some problems. 经济发展非常重要，尤其是对不发达地区来说，如果一再错失这些机会的话，经济没有进步，又如何来保护环境呢。


第三段：说明preserving remaining wilderness areas by drafting laws and keeping economic growth should be used for maintaining sustainable development. 首先可以权衡在某个区域，保护环境和发展经济哪个更重要，这样就可以做出选择，即使很难做出权衡，或者几乎都一样重要，政府也可以指定其他措施，既可以保护环境，也可以发展经济。举例，举例青藏大桥的修建，不仅保护了环境，也推动了经济建设。

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

raikkonen36 发表于 2014-10-24 20:54
恩，就是这个修改，你看看。

It is necessary to pass laws to preserve remaining wilderness area ...

It is necessary to pass laws to preserve remaining wilderness areas. Nonetheless, if the area which could be developed for economic gain needs to be protected by laws, it would bring some problems. In fact, preserving remaining wilderness areas by drafting laws and keeping economic growth should be used for maintaining sustainable development.

我觉得你修改的时候没有充分考虑我之前的意见 这让我略感失望
我前面已经说得很清楚preserve和conserve是两个概念
“这道题的关键是preservation与conservation之争
preserve阵营认为郊野应该完全不开发 只能做科研和欣赏（观鸟、野营等）
conserve阵营认为可以开发 但要有限度的可持续的开发 ”
也就是说preserve的话就不可能 sustainable development

你这个主旨句里可谓各种矛盾
It is necessary to pass laws to preserve remaining wilderness areas.
一开始说有必要preserve
Nonetheless, if the area which could be developed for economic gain needs to be protected by laws, it would bring some problems.
然后又说preserve会带来问题 这等于否定了前面的一句
In fact, preserving remaining wilderness areas by drafting laws and keeping economic growth should be used for maintaining sustainable development.
这一句里的preserve和后面的maintaining sustainable development又是相矛盾的

“或许第一段你可以强调立法的重要性 可以给出指引 惩罚不好的行为等等 但是未必要全面preserve  也可以conserve ”
这是我上次点评给你的意见  你强调立法重要的时候要为后面留下空间讨论 不要一口咬死必须preserve 那后面的conserve怎么弄


第一段：说明Laws play a significant role in preserving wilderness areas. Along with rapid social development, human beings have brought disastrous effects on wilderness areas. Considering the importance of maintaining ecosystem balance, humans being should take serious steps preserve any remaining wilderness areas. No doubt that drafting law is an effective approach in preserving wilderness areas. 一是 通过制定法律让大家认识到这个的问题的严重性，二是法律可以利用它的威慑力来保护。

第二段：说明 however, if the area which could be developed for economic gain, needs to be protected by laws, it would not be reasonable and bring some problems. 经济发展非常重要，尤其是对不发达地区来说，如果一再错失这些机会的话，经济没有进步，又如何来保护环境呢。


第三段：说明preserving remaining wilderness areas by drafting laws and keeping economic growth should be used for maintaining sustainable development. 首先可以权衡在某个区域，保护环境和发展经济哪个更重要，这样就可以做出选择，即使很难做出权衡，或者几乎都一样重要，政府也可以指定其他措施，既可以保护环境，也可以发展经济。举例，举例青藏大桥的修建，不仅保护了环境，也推动了经济建设。

还有请你加入我们的小组

raikkonen36UID: 2871931

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-24 22:23
It is necessary to pass laws to preserve remaining wilderness areas. Nonetheless, if the area wh ...

在哪加入啊，我有认真考虑的，最近在这两天纠结整体上。

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

raikkonen36 发表于 2014-10-24 22:47
在哪加入啊，我有认真考虑的，最近在这两天纠结整体上。

http://group.gter.net/index/show/gid/144.html
估计是你对conserve和preserve的概念不太熟悉

max940623UID: 3559548

王老师我又来了:lol 这次算是第一次全靠自己想出来的

I 10相关： 31，63，67，125，148
Nations should pass laws to preserve any remaining wilderness areas in their natural state, even if these areas could be developed for economic gain.
Write a response in which you discuss your views on the policy and explain your reasoning for the position you take. In developing and supporting your position, you should consider the possible consequences of implementing the policy and explain how these consequences shape your position.

Key Word: law, any wilderness area, no develop for eco

V1
写法类似Argument - -,而且好像由于最近选修了经济的原因，论点有点偏经济学

TS:
Although preservation on environment have become a urgent must for all mankind, delivering a law that conserve all the natural area still appears to be blindness. Firstly, the cost of passing such a radical law may outstrip its earning. Besides, this policy lack an awareness of getting the whole picture. While skewed policy is already issued for ecology system, ignorance on available and reasonable economic gain from environment is unacceptable. Furthermore, the reasonable economic benefit and effective protection on wilderness is not exclusive at all. Instead, through alternative policy nations could reach both of them at the same time.

ts1:政策没有从利益角度思考,侧重explicit cost
One thing that Economic taught us is to always make the decision that maximize the benefit, which is the obtained by revenue deducted by cost. This universal principle could also guide the government decision. In this case, overall preservation on wilderness will without doubt bring a considerable earning in ecological term. Nevertheless, the cost of implementing it includes large amount of money, human resource and administration. 在比较政策收效与花费大小之前不能做出决定。举例，如果是落后国家盲目实行，可能根本没有经济实力来支撑下去

ts2:政策没有全面性,侧重opportunity cost
In addition, this policy only focus on environmental issue and neglect other aspects. 略提一下其他方面，比如社会方面的原住民可能希望能适当开发改善生活条件。主要侧重对经济方面的忽视
Also, ignorance on available economic gain from reasonable development is injudicious. If the economic gain from development in certain area is less than its current ecological revenue, government should forsake this economic gain as the opportunity cost. On the contrary, some of the economic benefit, larger than existing ecological benefit, must be grasped by the nation. 不考虑全面性就实行政策的后果是达不到一个国家的利益最大化，

ts3:其实，经济上的利益与生态利益可以不冲突
As a matter of fact, national leaders may find another approach to both wilderness protection and economic revenue. 比如说生态旅游和国家公园，两方面都能达到，就不用像这个政策一样完全放弃经济利益。

这题用分类的写法如何？但为何感觉少了一些深度呢？
TS 政策的正确与否取决于国家类型
ts1发达国家：民众更有环保意识，生活条件要求也较高，将生态环境看成政绩的重要一部分；国家有经济实力，不必拘泥于开发的这些小钱。
政策效果-环境得到保育，经济平稳发展
ts2发展中国家：需要统筹兼顾，生态和经济都要考虑到。
    政策效果-太倾向于环境的政策引发民众不满，经济发展可能受阻
ts3落后国家：因为落后，国境内野生环境面积很多，多一些可以用来trade-off；经济实力差，很可能根本不具备保育所有野生环境的能力。
    政策效果-无力支持政策运行，政府意识到有必要合理地开发一些自然环境

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

max940623 发表于 2014-10-27 15:14
王老师我又来了 这次算是第一次全靠自己想出来的

I 10相关： 31，63，67，125，148

TS:
Although preservation on environment have become a urgent must for all mankind, delivering a law that conserve all the natural area still appears to be blindness. Firstly, the cost of passing such a radical law may outstrip its earning. Besides, this policy lack an awareness of getting the whole picture. While skewed policy is already issued for ecology system, ignorance on available and reasonable economic gain from environment is unacceptable. Furthermore, the reasonable economic benefit and effective protection on wilderness is not exclusive at all. Instead, through alternative policy nations could reach both of them at the same time.

从你的主旨句第一句前面用preservation后面用conserve就说明你没有仔细看我前面的点评 没有分清 preserve和conserve之间的区别 这个是这道题的核心问题   


ts1:政策没有从利益角度思考,侧重explicit cost
One thing that Economic taught us is to always make the decision that maximize the benefit, which is the obtained by revenue deducted by cost. This universal principle could also guide the government decision. In this case, overall preservation on wilderness will without doubt bring a considerable earning in ecological term. Nevertheless, the cost of implementing it includes large amount of money, human resource and administration. 在比较政策收效与花费大小之前不能做出决定。举例，如果是落后国家盲目实行，可能根本没有经济实力来支撑下去

题目已经说的很清楚是要放弃经济发展来preserve  对环境的保护自然很难用经济价值来衡量


你后面那个汉语提纲的思路倒是不错

max940623UID: 3559548

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-27 22:09
TS:
Although preservation on environment have become a urgent must for all mankind, delivering  ...

谢谢老师的点评，这次我是想试试完全自己建立一个观点，所以没提前看之前的批改。
后来上传以后看了才发现这道题的解题关键是区分Preserve与Conserve。
用经济价值衡量生态价值这点也确实经不起argue。
我会再去改一改

max940623UID: 3559548

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-27 22:09
TS:
Although preservation on environment have become a urgent must for all mankind, delivering  ...

请老师再帮我改一改，这次应该没偏题了
TS：
Although protection on environment have become a urgent must for all mankind, delivering laws that preserve all the natural area still appears to be blindness. Firstly, not all the nations are capable of implement these laws. Furthermore, in certain types of wilderness area conservation policy could become a better solution than preservation.

ts1 旷野必须要protect，但不是所有都preserve
In recent decades, people became more and more aware of the importance to protect the environment. The wilderness areas, pure heritage from the nature, deserve the careful protection from mankind without doubt. 因为这些旷野有极高的生态价值，立法保护(不是preserve)理所当然。But whether the overall preservation policy could fit for every countries and every pieces of wilderness land is open to doubt.

ts2 不同国家
For developed countries, the governments get the ability to preserve all the natural lands. 因为他们有经济实力放弃开发旷野的经济收入，也有足够的技术和人力保证政策的运行。
However, the implementation of the preservation laws could be another story for underdeveloped countries. 即使落后国家颁布了法律，他们也很难有实力保证在面积庞大的旷野实行。更何况在这些国家，有时可能因为太严厉的preservation政策反而导致有人破坏环境，例子：非洲政府不适当开发，逼得一些当地人只能犯法偷猎来为生

ts3 不同旷野
In fact, the best strategy that nations should take is to apply different policy on different wilderness area. 举例亚马逊雨林是地球之肺，产氧量和去污能力对全球生态圈至关重要，巴西有相应法律出台preserve。再举例，黄石公园有极高的考古与地质研究价值,每年能创造的经济价值也惊人，美国政府现在实行的生态旅游这种conserve更适合这片旷野。

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

max940623 发表于 2014-10-30 21:13
请老师再帮我改一改，这次应该没偏题了
TS：
Although protection on environment have become a urg ...

请老师再帮我改一改，这次应该没偏题了
TS：
Although protection on environment have become a urgent must for all mankind, delivering laws that preserve all the natural area still appears to be blindness. Firstly, not all the nations are capable of implement these laws. Furthermore, in certain types of wilderness area conservation policy could become a better solution than preservation.

想请问你在哪里看到urgent must这个说法
我查了一下COCA 找到唯一的例句是
There is this feeling that something urgent must be done to deter Israel on the settlements

https://bbs.gter.net/forum.php?mo ... age=5#pid1778938577


请问你在哪里见过deliver law这个用法
COCA里唯一的例句是deliver law and order  
你考虑一下别的动词
October, November, when Yeltsin's first impulse was to send in troops to deliver law and order was a mistake. He admitted that it was a mistake and

请问你在哪里见过appears to be blindness这种说法  

另外你的主旨句并没有和后面的三个主题句一一对应


ts1 旷野必须要protect，但不是所有都preserve
In recent decades, people became more and more aware of the importance to protect the environment. The wilderness areas, pure heritage from the nature, deserve the careful protection from mankind without doubt. 因为这些旷野有极高的生态价值，立法保护(不是preserve)理所当然。But whether the overall preservation policy could fit for every countries and every pieces of wilderness land is open to doubt.

这一段的分论点不是很明确 protect和preserve有什么不同？
but whether… 这句话更像是后面两段的概括
加上这一段的内容没有在主旨句里体现出来 所以这一段对全文没有太大的贡献   



ts2 不同国家
For developed countries, the governments get the ability to preserve all the natural lands. 因为他们有经济实力放弃开发旷野的经济收入，也有足够的技术和人力保证政策的运行。
However, the implementation of the preservation laws could be another story for underdeveloped countries. 即使落后国家颁布了法律，他们也很难有实力保证在面积庞大的旷野实行。更何况在这些国家，有时可能因为太严厉的preservation政策反而导致有人 破坏环境，例子：非洲政府不适当开发，逼得一些当地人只能犯法偷猎来为生

我觉得你列提纲的时候还是应该严格按照写一句英语主题句和汉语展开的模式，这样可以迫使你写出一个回应主旨句的主题句
像你现在这样写一句英语夹着两句汉语又写英语感觉很不伦不类
而且你这一段的两个点最好分两段来写  

一开始不是说政府有能力的问题 而是先指出发达国家应该推行preserve的政策 这个作为主题句 然后政府有能力可以作为一个支持的理由 其实这里能力主要可以从行政效率和执法的资源来讨论
administrative efficiency/ resources for law enforcement  
还有经济比较发达 社会也可以承受这种经济成本也是一个理由
最重要的是你要落脚到题目说的consider the possible consequences of implementing the policy  这个政策实施以后的后果 比如公众会更爱护环境 有了欣赏自然的机会等等

这里要强调的一点是一个英语主题句写出来之后 不是随便写两句汉语展开就行了 要仔细考虑如何展开 暂时不写全文只是为了节省时间 不是不用动脑筋计划全文 中间段要写得好 首先主题句本身要合适 同时要有一个合理的思路展开 要有足够的细节  




ts3 不同旷野
In fact, the best strategy that nations should take is to apply different policy on different wilderness area. 举例亚马逊雨林是地球之肺，产氧量和去污能力对全球生态圈至关重要，巴西有相应法律出台preserve。再举例，黄石公园有极高的考古与地质研究价值, 每年能创造的经济价值也惊人，美国政府现在实行的生态旅游这种conserve更适合这片旷野。

关于黄石公园的生态旅游和地质研究这一点 你需要注意的是 preservation本身其实是允许生态旅游和科研的
另外你如何将这里按旷野分类和前面的按国家分类整合起来呢  如何形成一个完整的观点


或者你可以考虑写这样一个提纲

主旨句

In developed countries, the governments should introduce laws to preserve wilderness as it is economically and adminstratively feasible to do so. In developing countries, the governments should formulate conservation policies for the wilderness through legislation to achieve a balance between environmental protection and economic development. For certain wilderness areas in developing countries that should be preserved for the global interests, the developed countries should provide aid to make it happen.  

作为一个练习，你试下根据这个主旨句写出三个英语主题句，然后用汉语展开一下。展开时注意要讨论 the possible consequences of implementing the policy


另外请你回答几个问题
1. 对于前面指出的几个用法不恰当的地方，urgent must/ deliever law你觉得主要原因是什么？参考这里的语料库学习法，你觉得是否有帮助？

https://bbs.gter.net/forum.php?mo ... age=5#pid1778938577

2. 为什么在反复介绍了1+3模型后，你写的主题句还是无法和主旨句一一呼应？是你没有仔细看我讲的模型，还是列提纲过程遇到什么困难？

https://bbs.gter.net/forum.php?mo ... age=4#pid1778934719
TS (pt1, pt2, pt3)
ts (pt1)
ts (pt2)
ts (pt3)

3. 对于两次写提纲都被我指出各种问题，你有没有觉得气馁？对于目前的issue写作，还有什么问题或困难？