14秋季提纲互改小组—Issue 66

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66) People who are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical of it.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the statement and explain your reasoning for the position you take. In developing and supporting your position, you should consider ways in which the statement might or might not hold true and explain how these considerations shape your position.
相关Issue题目：无
请回帖时按照指引链接列出英语提纲并用汉语解释并根据指引点评楼上的提纲。 第一个回帖的同学不必点评。
指引链接：https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1777364-1-1.html

ClaretZUID: 3567572

Whether people that are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical of it or not depends on which field they belong to. In academic fields, the scholars that are deeply convinced of an idea or a theory are the most critical of it. In politics or finance fields, people that committed to an idea or policy may be not very critical of it. In art fields, on the contrary, those who admire an idea are usually not critical at all.
In academic fields such as physics, the scholars that are deeply convinced of an idea or a theory are the most critical of it because they have to prove that the theory or idea is correct in the specific field and make sure when and where it can be applied. 举例：广义相对论是对侠义相对论的补充。
In politics or finance fields, people that deeply committed to an idea or policy may be not very critical of it as long as the application of the idea or policy turn out to be successful.举例：金融上，巴菲特所相信的价值投资；政治上，罗斯福新政。
In art fields like painting and dancing, those who admire an idea are usually not critical at all since the spirits of art is focus on creativity and personal aesthetic enjoyment, which usually outweigh the shortcomings or imperfection of an idea. 举例：印象派画作、梵高

难点：在第二点和第三点如何把例子与理论上的“critical”相结合，如何说明不critical以及critical的程度？

chrishong119UID: 3412641

我觉得，ts1的论点说服力不够，因为物理当中，很多人一生当中都是很执着的，包括牛顿、伽利略等，当然，我又同时觉得像你那么说也是比较有说服力的，因为，都是要pursue accuracy and be universally appliable。不过当他们觉得很perfect了的时候，就会很执着的去捍卫了。

ts2挺好，若successful，他们会很欢迎那idea or policy 的，更别说回去critic了

ts3，我觉得可以说得更强势一点：对于艺术，艺术者对其作品那是精益求精，容不得半点欠缺，更别说会去批判自己的作品了，对于其艺术作品，艺术者甚至是很顽固的很发疯的坚持自我的。"because a independent spirit of arts is the soul of..."

chrishong119UID: 3412641

   TS
   The speaker claims that people who are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical of it. Would that be the universal reality? Well, it depends on the background and ultimate intentions of people and in which period the development of an idea or policy is, for scientist and artists, they would be critical at the same time when they devoted to their ideas, but will defend them after the ideas have been made perfect. But for politicians and businessperson, where is benefits, where is their dedication with little critic.
   
    ts1
    For nuclear scientist, they would be very critical about nuclear research especially for purpose of destroying, but not for the politicians and businessperson. 比如，“曼哈顿计划”，科学家和政治家及商人都是非常热心的，尤其是军人，但，自对日本使用了核弹之后，科学家态度变了，比如爱因斯坦，甚至都公开反对核武的研发了，但政治家核武研发政策依旧很热心，其无非是为了震慑潜在对手，而商业公司，则更是迫不及待的加速核武的研发，以便有更多的利润。
   
    ts2
    For people devoted into physics, they would be critical of their findings and theories before their theories could be universally applicable, after that, they would defend their wisdom results bravely.比如说伽利略,推测、证实理论是很是有批判性的，不过，一旦证明理论是通用的是正确的，就会去捍卫了。
   
    ts3
    With respect to arts, artists could be very panoramic and fanatic to their products with little critic after the products are made. 比如说画家及雕刻家，对于作品的制作过程中，对于每一细节都和苛刻，一旦完美的作品问世，就会发疯似的欣赏、捍卫自己的作品（这时别人最好不要去惹他们）。
   

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

ClaretZ 发表于 2014-11-20 00:14
Whether people that are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical o ...

66) People who are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical of it.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the statement and explain your reasoning for the position you take. In developing and supporting your position, you should consider ways in which the statement might or might not hold true and explain how these considerations shape your position.


Whether people that are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical of it or not depends on which field they belong to. In academic fields, the scholars that are deeply convinced of an idea or a theory are the most critical of it. In politics or finance fields, people that committed to an idea or policy may be not very critical of it. In art fields, on the contrary, those who admire an idea are usually not critical at all.

In academic fields such as physics, the scholars that are deeply convinced of an idea or a theory are the most critical of it because they have to prove that the theory or idea is correct in the specific field and make sure when and where it can be applied. 举例：广义相对论是对侠义相对论的补充。

这道题的关键是要处理好 committed和critical之间的辩证关系
在任何一个例子中都要确保既有commitment又有criticality
科学界的例子是很合适的 因为卡尔波普提出过科学理论需要证伪
因此科学家自己重视的理论 一定会比较批判 会关注可能推翻这一理论的新数据


或许可以扩展一段 讲科学家对一些应用型项目的态度 比如曼哈顿计划与核武器 当初是爱因斯坦写信推动曼哈顿计划 但后来他和罗素一起反核武器  说明他的commitment其实包括了他要确保这个计划不会害人
还有三峡工程 你懂的

然后可以写政客通常不会critical自己commit的政策 因为政客通常都要考虑自己的地位是否稳固
而且政敌会比较critical 最终会有一个平衡的结果

不建议你写艺术类的例子

感觉我点评过你的一些提纲 你没有后续跟进修改
这样不太好

In politics or finance fields, people that deeply committed to an idea or policy may be not very critical of it as long as the application of the idea or policy turn out to be successful.举例：金融上，巴菲特所相信的价值投资；政治上，罗斯福新政。



In art fields like painting and dancing, those who admire an idea are usually not critical at all since the spirits of art is focus on creativity and personal aesthetic enjoyment, which usually outweigh the shortcomings or imperfection of an idea. 举例：印象派画作、梵高


难点：在第二点和第三点如何把例子与理论上的“critical”相结合，如何说明不critical以及critical的程度？

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

chrishong119 发表于 2014-11-22 13:16
TS
   The speaker claims that people who are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are  ...

TS
   The speaker claims that people who are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical of it. Would that be the universal reality? Well, it depends on the background and ultimate intentions of people and in which period the development of an idea or policy is, for scientist and artists, they would be critical at the same time when they devoted to their ideas, but will defend them after the ideas have been made perfect. But for politicians and businessperson, where is benefits, where is their dedication with little critic.

感觉你的主旨句挺有层次挺复杂
但是主旨句和后面的主题句并没有呼应起来
where is benefits, where is their dedication with little critic.这句话表达有问题





    ts1
    For nuclear scientist, they would be very critical about nuclear research especially for purpose of destroying, but not for the politicians and businessperson. 比如，“曼哈顿计划”，科学家和政治家及商人都是非常热心的，尤其是军人，但，自对日本使用了核弹之后，科学家态度变了，比如爱因斯坦，甚至都公开反对核武的研发了，但政治家核武研发政策依旧很热心，其无非是为了震慑潜在对手，而商业公司，则更是迫不及待的加速核武的研发，以便有更多的利润。

你在一段里同时写不同的人会不会太杂乱



    ts2
    For people devoted into physics, they would be critical of their findings and theories before their theories could be universally applicable, after that, they would defend their wisdom results bravely.比如说伽利略,推测、证实理论是很是有批判性的，不过，一旦证明理论是通用的是正确的，就会去捍卫了。

针对commitment和criticality之间的矛盾 你似乎没有处理



    ts3
    With respect to arts, artists could be very panoramic and fanatic to their products with little critic after the products are made. 比如说画家及雕刻家，对于作品的制作过程中，对于每一细节都和苛刻，一旦完美的作品问世，就会发疯似的欣赏、捍卫自己的作品（这时别人最好不要去惹他们）。

这样分阶段性的commit和critical似乎和题目的意思不太一样

感觉这种题目ETS应该不会拿来考吧 这么变态 要是抽到或许也是人品太差了

chrishong119UID: 3412641

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-22 17:18
TS
   The speaker claims that people who are the most deeply committed to an idea or polic ...

还好issue可以二选一啊:lol
老师能不能给详细讲讲怎么着手分析一个issue题目，并如何开展吗？我想很多人都跟我一样，很是需求指导啊，谢谢了

ClaretZUID: 3567572

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-22 16:47
66) People who are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical o ...

好的，谢谢老师！我下周先把之前的提纲修改一下，下周其中考试周，考到周四结束。周四晚上开始再写新的提纲。

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

chrishong119 发表于 2014-11-22 21:40
还好issue可以二选一啊
老师能不能给详细讲讲怎么着手分析一个issue题目，并如何开展吗？我想很多人 ...

汗 你是2009年穿越过来的么:funk:
2选1是老皇历了

aiyinUID: 3542062

chrishong119 发表于 2014-11-22 21:40
还好issue可以二选一啊
老师能不能给详细讲讲怎么着手分析一个issue题目，并如何开展吗？我想很多人 ...

:funk:

chrishong119UID: 3412641

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-23 07:22
汗 你是2009年穿越过来的么
2选1是老皇历了

不好意思~

chrishong119UID: 3412641

aiyin 发表于 2014-11-23 09:38

不好意思~

gzc405933323UID: 3574833

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-23 07:22
汗 你是2009年穿越过来的么
2选1是老皇历了

https://bbs.gter.net/thread-694709-1-1.html

老师，不知您赞同这样的issue思路吗？我现在打算把这种思路跟您的1+3分类讨论模型结合起来

zsczslUID: 2888426

周六考试前写下的最后两篇大纲之一，还请王老师批改，多谢！周五还要交一篇论文，这两天得赶了，实在没时间写新的大纲了。还没写的题目就只有看老师与前辈们讨论的帖子，积累一下思路了。

66. People who are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical of it.

Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the statement and explain your reasoning for the position you take. In developing and supporting your position, you should consider ways in which the statement might or might not hold true and explain how these considerations shape your position.

TS (pt1, pt2, pt3): The dialectical relationship between commitment and criticality always attracts people’s attention and is often in headed discussion. Some claim that the staunchest supporters of certain thought or policy simultaneously are the fiercest critics of them. Although I agree that such principle can be applied to the real pursuers of the truth and the public well-being, those who merely want to maintain their status are not likely to be very critical of the ideas or policies that are benefitting them. The relevant evidence can be found in the fields of scientific research and politics respectively.

ts (pt1): In the first place, the scientists who pursue the pure truth are always attempting to find the flaw of a thought in order to perfect it. Karl Popper就提出‘falsification/corroboration’ disjunction，建议科学家批判地看待一个观点，而后找到证据支持或反驳它，促使它的发展。真正的科学家就会照此而行。例如Adams and Leverrier 支持Newtonian mechanics，可根据这种理论计算，行星Uranus的轨道就异常， 除非有一个新行星存在，可这行星又没有被观察到。Adams and Leverrier没有因为自己相信Newtonian物理学就放弃自己的研究，反而继续在framework of Newtonian mechanics内计算出了新行星的位置。后来，Galle at the Berlin observatory 发现第七大行星Neptune的确存在，而且还就在Adams and Leverrier所计算的位置上，这加固了Newtonian物理学。

ts (pt2): Meanwhile, the politicians who want to enhance the well-being of the society as a whole or in the democratic circumstance will examine their policies in a critical way before implementing them. 为了整个社会利益的政治家在推行某个计划前，一定会多番批判它，直到它被修改到能符合绝大多数人利益为止。在民主政治里，多数政治家都会被以民为本的机制弄得像这样做，因为他们不这样做就不会被选民选上台，或者无法辩论赢自己的对手，而劝说议会通过某项法案。比如On March 30, 1867, Secretary of State Seward 促使美国花7.2million of dollars 从俄国手里买了阿拉斯加，这使他遭到许多讽刺和嘲笑。其实他自己对花这么大笔钱买一块冰天雪地也是审视了很久，最终才找出如何应对议员们批判的方法，劝说他们以一票的优势赞成买下阿拉斯加。

ts (p3): Nevertheless, the scientists merely focusing on their own position and interest will not criticize their own theories yet wholeheartedly attack the persons who oppose to their ideas.  比如苏联的Lysenko，不但不批判自己的错误生物学理论，反而编造数据来维护它，将相信达尔文和Mendel的科学家迫害的离职或是死亡，使苏联生物学界在1935-1965三十年间没有进步反而倒退。

ts (p4): Similarly, the leaders who only want to maintain their own power and position will not critically scrutinize their policies.在专制社会尤为明显，例如”Great Leap Foward”，在一片颂扬声中展开，即便是后来导致重大损失，Mao也不情愿承认错误，直到“七千人大会”上被Liu和Deng等人逼迫，他才口头上认错，心里则记下仇恨，几年后发动”Cultural Revolution”迫害那些逼过他承认自己政策有过失的人。

sunshineatnoonUID: 3584816

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-22 16:47
66) People who are the most deeply committed to an idea or policy are also the most critical o ...

这道题提纲可否这么写？
(1)First and foremost, scientists who commit to an idea are also the most critical of it because the primary motivation of academy is skepticism.
e.g Hawking overturned his own theories about Black Holes
(2)However, politicians who commit to an policy usually don't critic it. On one hand, only by sticking to a policy can these politicians persuade others to accept it. On the other hand, it is possible that politicians already get numerous critics from the opposition party thus they will pay all their attention to promote an policy rather than be critical to it.
e.g. Roosevelt's New Deal
(3)What's more, people during special period will not be critical to policies that they commit to because they are irrational and too fanatical about this policy.
e.g. The Great Culture' Revolution