噼里啪啦看Issue之第一期之Issue 209 by 银落

银落UID: 2632560

No.9——Issue 209 "Progress is best made
through discussion among people who have contrasting points of view."

KEY WORD: best，discuss，among contrasting
可用于与合作，竞争，进步相关的题材
属于行为类和综合类

1. What does X mean? (Definition)
X=progress
Please look up in dictionary yourselves，in order to keep it in your minds

2. What are the various features of X? (Description)
progress可以分为两类，一类物质，一类精神
physically and mentally

3. What are the component parts of X? (Simple Analysis)
physically and mentally

4. How is X made or done? (Process Analysis)
题目中是说from discussion
我们自己思考的话，需要想想平时还有除了discuss的哪些

5. How should X be made or done? (Directional Analysis)
题目中是说discuss among people who have contrasting points of view.
我们自己思考的话，可以从多方面出发考虑。
第一．是否是有争端的人所做的讨论才是最好的（有争端/没有争端）
第二．Discussion是否一定是best （discussion/competition/learning）
第三．have contrasting view的people是否能够sit around to discuss

6. What is the essential function of X? (Functional Analysis)
Progress can ameliorate level of people’s life.
这里，life同样分mentally 和 physically

7. What are the causes of X? (Causal Analysis)
Discussion
这个问题和四五两个问题很像

8. What are the consequences of X? (Causal Analysis)
Mentally 和 physically
相互组合，一共四组

9. What are the types of X? (Classification)
行为类，综合类

10. How is X like or unlike Y? (Comparison)
无相关

11. What is the present status of X? (Comparison)
Gradually moving on

12. What is the significance of X? (Interpretation)
No progress，ends comes

13. What are the facts about X? (Reportage)
无相关

14. How did X happen? (Narration)
同4.5.7

15. What kind of person is X? (Characterization/Profile)
无相关

16. What is my personal response to X? (Reflection)
正反中立
It depends on you

17. What is my memory of X? (Reminiscence)
无相关。其实这就是观点的立场。

18. What is the value of X? (Evaluation)
Vital

19. What are the essential major points or features of X? (Summary)
4.5.

20. What case can be made for or against X? (Persuasion)
无相关。
或者说，这是这道题的反面论证。

(Adapted from Jacqueline Berke's Twenty Questions for the Writer)



REASONING:
没有正反方，这取决于每个人自己，我只是分析一下。而这题的重点在于2.4.5.6四个问题
我们采用倒推法。

切入点：best made
不同观点讨论的人之间进行讨论真的是产生进步的最好方法吗？（yes）
è 为什么这是最好的方法？（阐述该方法所拥有的无可能比的好处）è其他方法哪里不好了（对比该方法）è这个方法是对现在来说最好的，还是以后都是最好的？è如果这不是普遍适用的真理，那么我们应该如何改进，以适用于未来呢？è采取哪些具体措施呢？è这些措施可行吗？

不同观点讨论的人之间进行讨论真的是产生进步的最好方法吗？（no）
è 为什么这不是最好的方法？（阐述该方法所拥有的缺陷）è其他方法有哪些方法è哪一种最为突出è为什么呢？è它有缺陷吗è如果有缺陷，我们应该如何改进，以使进步更加出色è具体有哪些措施呢？è还有更好的产生进步的方法吗？è这些措施可行吗？

切入点：progress
什么是progressè物质和精神è物质上的progress和精神上的progress相关吗（无关）è为什么无关？è那么如何分立地来make progress？（这就回到了best made中的一些问题中去了）

什么是progressè物质和精神è物质上的progress和精神上的progress相关吗（相关）è为什么相关？è如何相关（分四种情况），然后根据自己观点一一展开论述

切入点：discussion
什么是Discussion？ècontrasting opinion的人能够有discussion吗？（能）è为什么能？都contrasting了耶ècontrasting的discussion有哪些优点？è在哪些场合需要通过discussion来make progress？哪些场合不行？

什么是Discussion？ècontrasting opinion的人能够有discussion吗？（不能）è为什么呢？è不和谐的话会产生争吵è那要怎样才能make progress呢？（又回到如何make best progress）


每个思考还能延伸出更多的黑色箭头，每个思考点也许可能只是文章中的一两句话，但是，这是一种分析方法，当你无处下手的时候，一个有一个问号接连下去，然后在众多线索中选取相关的思考点入手，把握逻辑，那么长期积累，一定会有所成效。

在此，我没有罗列出任何例子，希望大家根据自己的观点一起收集寻找哈。不合理之处，欢迎发帖讨论。

jinziqiUID: 2387034

哇,赞~很新颖的思考方式~很多切入点可以下手。
不明白的是就从一个切入点下手以后稍微讨论一下其它2个切入点，还是3个切入点是3段呢?
不太理解为什么要将progress分成mental和physical呢?是一切事物皆如此吗？哈
那它们的相互组合的4组又分别是什么呢?

jinziqiUID: 2387034

我的思考Progress
1. a royal journey marked by pomp and pageant
    a state procession
    an expedition, journey, or march through a region
2. a forward or onward movement (as to an object or to a goal)
3. gradual betterment: especially: the progressive development of mankind

in progress: going on: occurring
我猜题目中的progress大概是第二个意思吧~

这个题目的例子真难想...

提纲
1. 持有不同观点的人之间的讨论有助于做出正确的决定
discussion的好处:
可以使人们想到更多的问题，思维开拓，集思广益。有contrasting points of view的人在一起探讨，表达自己的看法，其它人可以倾听，记录下来哪里可以反驳，哪里是自己疏忽的，哪里是需要进一步思考的，以便继续探讨。

2. 正确的决定帮助人们获得good progress
正确的决定的好处:
由于discussion使人充分意识一个问题，不会因为一时脑袋发热就下定决心，所以discussion后的决策往往是正确的。纵观历史，重大的成功的创举都是通过不同观点的人不断地discuss获得的，例如美国的医改方案...

3. 除了discussion among people who have contrasting points of view, good progress can be made by individual or a group of cooperation. 并且，人各有差异，有的人喜欢独自思考，这样才能make progress，而有的人喜欢跟大家探讨，吸取别人的力量来帮助自己make progress.不能硬是将他们放在一起讨论...有时一个人的奇思妙想就可以发明出神奇的东西，几个人的合作可以开创成功，但这些毕竟是少数，否则世界就充满了像乔布斯、爱因斯坦一样的人，他们就不再famous了。

不知道有没有跑题耶...

xiemeng2370UID: 2749773

分析的真透彻~我觉得每一个切入点都可以发展成一个大issue
好像离散数学~推理逻辑~我还记得什么CP规则~T规则~P规则~UI~SI~UG什么的~
跟楼主的推理思路超级像~原来命题逻辑那一套还能用到AW上~
高~实在是高！

ieyangj08UID: 2743219

以关键词作为切入点的破题方式很好很强大，学习了。

ieyangj08UID: 2743219

我的思路

切入点：discussion

1）什么是Discussion？
两个或多个人围绕一个共同的话题阐述自己的观点。群体成员对话题的观点可能一致或相反，从而形成两派或一派。一派时，大家共同探讨对该话题细节的思考，从而更深刻地认识该话题。两派时，双方各自说明自己的理由，并反驳对方的观点，一般通过反驳例证，逻辑推理中的错误等方式。同时，被反驳方要回击对方的否定，并重新证明自己的观点。
举例 昨天Comment里的women话题
2）contrasting opinion的人能够有discussion吗？为什么？
这个是有条件的。双方的矛盾应该在彼此可以接受的范围内，有时双方矛盾形势太激烈，根本不能通过讨论解决，只能战争武力等方式。宗教矛盾、政治矛盾等。与持有不同观点的人辩论一般有两个目的：想为此观点赢得更多的支持者。例：政治大选时拉选票时的辩论。想知道持否定观点的人是如何思考的。例：师生间的学术辩论。
3）contrasting的discussion有哪些优点？
讨论双方更加深刻全面认识自己的立场。通过说服对方并回答对方问题而找到更合适的例证和更精确的逻辑推理，从而更好地梳理自己的认识。同时了解了对方的观点和理由。最终了解了双方的限制和有说服力的一面，从而可以更深刻全面地看待一个问题。因此也就作出了进步。
举例 women话题

试着列了思路，回过头一看，居然写了这么多。趁热把文章一起写了吧，洗具了，呵呵。

qisaimanUID: 2703629

简单写了几句 希望更多的观点出来。
How the mankind progress?

Partially agree
In scientific realm, usually there is only one correct answer, thus by discussing the contrasting points of views effectively , a better result can be attained. A hidden benefit for discussion on different views lie in the facts that the correctness of a scientific always relies on the examination of a third party, among which include ….


While in the 人文 realm , discussion among people with contrasting views often lead to a void result.

Admittedly, argument could result in a hostile situation where not concord  but greater gap are achieved .

ieyangj08UID: 2743219

文章写出来了，为了整体逻辑，将上面思路的2和3进行了对换。

Issue 209 "Progress is best made through discussion among people who have contrasting points of view."

Can discussing with people held different points of view bring best progress to us? The answer is definitely yes.

To answer this question we shall explain what discussion is concretely. A discussion is two or more people getting together to explain their viewpoints of a common topic. And their standpoints might be in the same state or be contrasting totally. While they hold the similar standpoints, they talk the details of the topic more deeply. Whereas, while there are two contrasting statuses, the two groups both illustrate their positions, refute the other side, generally through attacking their examples and finding errors in the logical reasoning, and defend their own statuses.

A case in point is a recent discussion in newspapers about women’s status. There are clearly two parties who hold different viewpoints. The original party points out that women in the developed world have never had it so good, however, the opposition party holds the idea that whether the contemporary women are happier than their mothers is still a topic to be deliberated, let alone “have never had it so good”. Both the two sides attack the other’s viewpoints and guard their own position drastically.

Also discussing with people held different point of view has various advantages and can bring great progress which can’t be brought by other means. At least, you will recognize your perspective more deeply and precisely. Through convincing the other side and guard your positions, you would find more suitable examples and more precise reasoning of your viewpoints, thus form the firmer system of your status. At the same time, you shall know the other party’s standpoints and reasons sufficiently by hotly discussion. All above cause you finally have a comprehensive and deep understanding of the topic, which is really a great progress and only can be achieved through this way.

Let’s return back to our above example of women’s status. After violently discussion, the original party realizes that the caring roles, such as looking after children or elderly, are not sufficient for women’s self-realization, for only the management and economy positions have rights and voice in present world. And the other party realizes that except competing economy and wage with men, women would view the caring roles more valuably, thus to feel more self-realization, for these jobs are vital for our whole mankind. Both sides have fully understood the topic, and thus make great progress which can’t be brought by discussion with people held the same standpoint.

Although discussion among people having contrasting standpoint have many advantages, they can’t be enforced under all conditions. And these discussions can only be carried out when the contradiction between the two sides can be accepted by both. If the both sides are too intense conflict, other means might be taken, such as violence or war. History is replete with examples of these. The Iran-Iraq War, took place in 1980-1988, is caused by contrasting viewpoints on ethnic and religious issues, which is too fierce and can’t be solved by just discussion together.

If the conditions allow, discussing with people having the opposite view, and you would make great progress than other means.

银落UID: 2632560

哇,赞~很新颖的思考方式~很多切入点可以下手。
不明白的是就从不太理解为什么要将progress分成mental和physical呢?是一切事物皆如此吗？哈
...
jinziqi 发表于 2010-1-25 18:16

一个切入点下手以后稍微讨论一下其它2个切入点，还是3个切入点是3段呢?
这三个切入点是有些相通的。这只是一个挖深思想的方法。也就是说。你可以按照自己的想法在任意三个切入点的每个小点之间组合。但是点与点之间必须有联系。可以并列，也可以层层深入。。中间段有三段是最基本的。。然后可以根据你的能力扩深四段，五段都行。。


什么要将progress分成mental和physical呢?是一切事物皆如此吗？
当然不是一切事物都是这样哈。。
progress分成精神上的和物质上的。。那么这样就可以套用科技上的一点点内容。。但是这个不能作为主要段落。。不然这题就偏了。。这只能作为升华的部分。。。

它们的相互组合的4组又分别是什么呢
就是物质上进步+精神上进步
就是物质上进步+精神上退步
就是物质上退步+精神上进步
就是物质上退步+精神上退步