argument211 不拘泥于模版，恳请指教~_~

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不拘泥于模版，希望能得到你的肯定:$ 不过，为了进步，狠狠拍，当然:) 谢谢喽，必回拍。可以把链接附在评语后面。:handshake

这是我在安卓美达和tanjikede的意见下的修改稿，请指教

Before accepting the suggestion of the vice president in Waymarsh University (WU), the statement should be reexamined from two aspects. Whether the job-opportunity (job-op) in Plateu Technical College (PTC) is really successful and whether it suits for WU, even if it is successful. Had the answer of either question negative, the suggestion could be a wise decision.

First of all, the mere fact that more than 75% of the freshmen choose that program seems logic to prove the program’s wonderful. However, students’ choice may based other reasons in stead of the content of that program is wonderful. Perhaps freshmen, who get few optional classes to choose, enrolled this program just because of their wish to get the scores of that program. Perhaps other programs have more students enrolled. Perhaps the class time of this program is more reasonable than others. The time does not conflict with their favorite classes. Or perhaps freshmen judge the program just depending on its name because they are new of everything. Accordingly, we cannot make sure the real reason students choose job-op program so that it is disputed whether this program is wonderful.

The evidence about the grades of job-op student cannot persuade me either. There is no incomparability between different grades or different major. Even if the analogy is taken of students in same the grade and major, common sense tells us that the grade determined in many factors, such as students’ diligence and intelligence. Job-op students may get much higher grades than others before they take that program.

Then, we should turn our attention to the fact that 90% of the job-op students receive job offers within a month after their graduation. Can receiving job offers be equal to finding a good job? Are their jobs related to their major or do they earn average or above salaries in their area? Even if they find a good job, is there any relationship with job-op? They may have not engaged into that program for years and other factors such as their academic ability or intern experience may be more crucial to fascinate their employers. Even if there is something related, I still cannot believe job-op can give them great benefits until I know the job situation of students without taking job-op.

Furthermore, even if the program is really wonderful, is this program suitable for WU as well? Perhaps the academic goals of PTC may be to cultivate skillful persons while Waymarsh University may be an art school and its goals may be to create some artists. If so, even if the job-op program is wonderful, we cannot draw the conclusion that it is suitable for Waymarsh University.

In conclusion, there are too many holes I can reveal from that suggestion. Thus, I do not believe that is a wise decision unless the vice present changes some more credit evidence or give me detailed explanation about all questions I mentioned above.


In conclusion, there are too many holes I can reveal from that suggestion. Thus, I do not believe that is a wise decision unless the vice present changes some more credit evidence or give me detailed explanation about all questions I mentioned above.
问：
我在修改稿中，将批驳“大多数参加过job-op的毕业生在他们领域都很成功”这一条给删了，因为我方不好位置。不知道少批这样一个逻辑错误可不可以？



211. So that we can better accomplish Waymarsh University’s academic goals, we should adopt the job-opportunity (job-op) program offered at Plateau Technical College and strongly encourage all students at Waymarsh to participate in it. The success of the job-op program at Plateau is evident: over the past two years, more than 75% of the freshmen at Plateau have enrolled in the optional job-op program. Moreover, at Plateau, the grades of job-op students are consistently higher than those of other students, 90% of the job-op students receive job offers within a month after their graduation, and most former job-op students report much success in their careers.
正文：
The vice president begins by stating a suggestion that they should establish a job-opportunity (job-op) as well as that of Plateau Technical College which has been proved successfully and all students in Waymarsh University should engage in it. Reading carefully I find some fallacious points existing in the reasons of that suggestion.

The suggestion is based on the fact that the similar program is successful in Plateau Technical College. However, is it really successful? To begin with, we are not informed the reason that more than 75% of the freshmen choose that program? Perhaps the class time of that program is ideal in the light of most students’ dislike of getting up too early or having classes near weekends. Perhaps students enrolled this program just because there are few choice extents for freshmen. Or perhaps others program have more students enrolled. Moreover, when did this program commence? We cannot rule out the possibility that it is a new established program that makes students curious. Accordingly, we cannot make sure the real reason students choose job-op program so that it is disputed whether this program is wonderful.

More dubious evidence is about the grades of job-op student. Common sense tells that the grade determined in many factors, such as students’ diligence and intelligence. Also, do they have higher grades in all subjects or certain subject? If only in some subjects, we cannot rule out the possibility that these subjects they are adept at or some contents of examination are related to the job-op grogram. Finally, we have known that most students, more than 75%, take that program so that it is entirely possible that the rest 25% students are not good at learning. Still, this evidence fails to persuade me.

Then, we should turn our attention to the fact that 90% of the job-op students receive job offers within a month after their graduation. First, it happened two or three years after they learned the program. They may change greatly in three years. Whether their academic ability or intern experience may fascinate their employers give them offers. Second, we are not informed the situation of other students who may also have got job offers, or even sooner. Thirdly, whether these jobs are related to their majors or how much money they can earn? And the last evidence that most former job-op students gain much success in their careers left me a question. What is the standard of success? I hold the belief it is related personal values. And as the same reason, we are still not informed the situation of other students without taking job-op. They may even more successful.

The last key problem is the vice president may incorrectly analogy Waymarsh University and Plateau Technical College (PTC). The academic goals of PTC may be to cultivate skillful persons while Waymarsh University may be an art school and its goals may be to create some artists. If so, even if the job-op program is wonderful, we cannot draw the conclusion that it is suitable for Waymarsh University.

[ Last edited by davidjacky on 2005-8-10 at 22:54 ]

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占坐 晚上帮你改

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211The vice president begins by stating a suggestion that they should establish a job-opportunity (job-op) as well as that of Plateau Technical College which has been proved successfully and all students in Waymarsh University should engage in it. Reading carefully I find some fallacious points existing in the reasons of that suggestion.

The suggestion is based on the fact that the similar program is successful in Plateau Technical College. However, is it really successful? To begin with, we are not informed the reason that more than 75% of the freshmen choose that program? Perhaps the class time of that program is ideal in the light of most students’ dislike of getting up too early or having classes near weekends 想象的好像有点太飞跃了. Perhaps students enrolled this program just because there are few choice extents for freshmen. Or perhaps others program have more students enrolled. Moreover, when did this program commence? We cannot rule out the possibility that it is a new established program that makes students curious. Accordingly, we cannot make sure the real reason students choose job-op program so that it is disputed whether this program is wonderful. 这段驳学生并不是因为课程精彩而且选读，不过这个攻击点本身有点牵强，而且不是太有力度

More dubious evidence is about the grades of job-op student. Common sense tells that the grade are determined in by many factors, such as students’ diligence and intelligence. Also, do they have higher grades in all subjects or certain subject? If only in some subjects, we cannot rule out the possibility that these subjects they are adept at or some contents of examination are related to the job-op grogram. Finally, we have known that most students, more than 75%, take that program so that it is entirely possible that the rest 25% students are not good at learning. Still, this evidence fails to persuade me. 应该理解成参加JP课程的学生优于其他学生并不是JP课程的效果，这点没有表达好。

Then, we should turn our attention to the fact that 90% of the job-op students receive job offers within a month after their graduation. First, it happened two or three years after they learned the program. They may change greatly in three years. Whether their academic ability or intern experience may fascinate their employers give them offers. Second, we are not informed the situation of other students who may also have got job offers, or even sooner. Thirdly, whether these jobs are related to their majors or how much money they can earn? And the last evidence that most former job-op students gain much success in their careers left me a question. What is the standard of success? I hold the belief it is related personal values. And as the same reason, we are still not informed the situation of other students without taking job-op. They may even more successful. 用了太多的反问句使得驳论变得非常主观化，其实只要指出JP学生的成功未必是JP带来的，或者无证据说明没参加JP的学生没有成功的可能，就可以了。

The last key problem is the vice president may incorrectly analogy Waymarsh University and Plateau Technical College (PTC). The academic goals of PTC may be to cultivate skillful persons while Waymarsh University may be an art school and its goals may be to create some artists. If so, even if the job-op program is wonderful, we cannot draw the conclusion that it is suitable for Waymarsh University.

In conclusion, there are too many holes I can reveal from that suggestion. Thus, I do not believe that is a wise decision unless the vice present changes some more credit evidence or give me detailed explanation about all questions I mentioned above.

个人建议：用自己的语言表达逻辑点的确值得赞赏，不过攻击力度和清晰度不太强，是文章未能有效的表达作者的论述思路。

有空帮我看看吧 argument204:
https://bbs.gter.net/viewthread.php?tid=314831

tangjihedeUID：2107695

[就在前人的基础上改了]211The vice president begins by stating a suggestion that they should establish a job-opportunity (job-op) as well as that of Plateau Technical College which has been proved successfully and all students in Waymarsh University should engage in it[全句都在begins by的引导下，而后面的内容在意思上显然不应该是。 ]. Reading carefully I find some fallacious points existing in the reasons of that suggestion. [除了调整一下用词（begin by），这种开头没有问题。很好。]

The suggestion is based on the fact that the similar program is successful in Plateau Technical College. However, is it really successful? To begin with, we are not informed the reason that[why] more than 75% of the freshmen choose that program? [句号] Perhaps the class time of that program is ideal in the light of most students’ dislike of getting up too early or having classes near weekends 想象的好像有点太飞跃了[确实，你可以说他们刚入学不懂事，过两个月就退出了。反例越普遍越好。而你的表达可以做一篇arg的题目了：谁说新生就不喜欢早起？谁说这个项目不在大清早？。。。当然你也可以反问谁说新生就不就懂事，但比较起来后者更能被人接受吧。]. Perhaps students enrolled this program just because there are few choice extents for freshmen. Or perhaps others program have more students enrolled. [这个很好] Moreover, when did this program commence? We cannot rule out the possibility that it is a new established program that makes students curious. Accordingly, we cannot make sure the real reason students choose job-op program so that it is disputed whether this program is wonderful. 这段驳学生并不是因为课程精彩而且选读，不过这个攻击点本身有点牵强，而且不是太有力度[我觉得攻击这个点是可以的，但最好放到B3的中心句之下。]

More dubious evidence is about the grades of job-op student. Common sense tells that the grade are determined in by many factors, such as students’ diligence and intelligence. Also, do they have higher grades in all subjects or certain subject? If only in some subjects, we cannot rule out the possibility that these subjects they are adept at or some contents of examination are related to the job-op grogram. Finally, we have known that most students, more than 75%, take that program so that it is entirely possible that the rest 25% students are not good at learning. Still, this evidence fails to persuade me. 应该理解成参加JP课程的学生优于其他学生并不是JP课程的效果，这点没有表达好。[攻击成绩好和JP没有必然关系]

Then, we should turn our attention to the fact that 90% of the job-op students receive job offers within a month after their graduation. First, it happened two or three years after they learned the program. They may change greatly in three years. Whether their academic ability or intern experience may fascinate their employers give them offers. Second, we are not informed the situation of other students who may also have got job offers, or even sooner. Thirdly, whether these jobs are related to their majors or how much money they can earn? And the last evidence that most former job-op students gain much success in their careers left me a question. What is the standard of success? I hold the belief it is related personal values. And as the same reason, we are still not informed the situation of other students without taking job-op. They may even more successful. 用了太多的反问句使得驳论变得非常主观化，其实只要指出JP学生的成功未必是JP带来的，或者无证据说明没参加JP的学生没有成功的可能，就可以了。[一连串的问句如果使用得当的话可以让文章更有气势。6分范文里就有一篇连续用问句攻击的。但你要注意的是，第二点已经谈到没有和其他学生对比了，而最后一句又提到了其他学生，纯属画蛇添足，因为没有后者你的逻辑是比较清晰的，而加上后者就乱了。这一段的中心正如g友所说，而且最好用一句话点出来：No evidence is offered by the author to prove that there is causal relationship between JP and its participants’ success in finding jobs.然后分点攻击。后面三点问的很好，但脑袋中一定要有这三点之间的逻辑。我会这么展开：他们真的找到好工作了么？（工资。个人价值的实现。。）；第二，就算他们的工作好，就和JP有必然联系么？可能有其他原因造就了成功；第三，就算是Jp造就的，那和没参加的学生比，这个成绩有多大呢？兴许没参加的更好呢。这样层层推进逻辑显得比较强，层次也清楚。]

The last key problem is the vice president may incorrectly analogy Waymarsh University and Plateau Technical College (PTC). The academic goals of PTC may be to cultivate skillful persons while Waymarsh University may be an art school and its goals may be to create some artists. If so, even if the job-op program is wonderful, we cannot draw the conclusion that it is suitable for Waymarsh University.

In conclusion, there are too many holes I can reveal from that suggestion. Thus, I do not believe that is a wise decision unless the vice present changes some more credit evidence or give me detailed explanation about all questions I mentioned above.

个人建议：用自己的语言表达逻辑点的确值得赞赏，不过攻击力度和清晰度不太强，是文章未能有效的表达作者的论述思路。

[本文大致的结构还是可以的，如果能把逻辑关系说的更清晰就好了。我建议全文采用层进的方法。1能成立么？就算1能成立，2 就能成立么？就算2能成立，3就能成立么？这样要求你在审题是不能局于行文的顺序，而是逻辑的顺序，对审题的要求比较高。比如本文可以这么展开：
1．        JP在WU不一定成功（JP和成功没有必然联系）
A．        大一新生高参与率不代表他们一直参加这个项目，很可能一个月就退出了，因而他们日后的各方面成绩跟JP没多大关系。]
B．        就算他们长期参与JP：
a成绩高和JP也不一定有必然关系（fallacy of concurrence）
b，Jp和找工作也不一定有必然关系（fallacy of concurrence）（a and b似乎没法层进而是并列的）：1工作真的好么？大多数说自己成功也不代表就好到哪儿去啊。2。就算好，和JP有必然联系么？。。参见上文
2．        就算JP在WU是成功的，在我们这儿也不一定成功（fallacy of false analogy）【你的文章实际上大的结构也是这两方面，但你没有有效的把这种关系表达出来。这种结构是不是比原来看着更清楚一点儿？】

这个结构供你参考。我觉得90％以上的题都可以用这种层进的格式。你在过题时可以训练一下，看能不能用这种结构展开。强迫自己尽量把所有的错误套进这种格式，可以帮助训练严密的思维（当然，有10道作用的题我也没想着法子这么套。）]

davidjackyUID：135962

Before accepting the suggestion of the vice president in Waymarsh University (WU), the statement should be reexamined from two aspects. Whether the job-opportunity (job-op) in Plateu Technical College (PTC) is really successful and whether it suits for WU, even if it is successful. Had the answer of either question negative, the suggestion could be a wise decision.这句话有点问题？指语法

First of all, the mere fact that more than 75% of the freshmen choose that program seems logic to prove the program’s wonderful. However, students’ choice may based other reasons in stead of the content of that program is wonderful. Perhaps freshmen, who get few optional classes to choose, enrolled this program just because of their wish to get the scores of that program. Perhaps other programs have more students enrolled. Perhaps the class time of this program is more reasonable than others. The time does not conflict with their favorite classes. Or perhaps freshmen judge the program just depending on its name because they are new of everything. Accordingly, we cannot make sure the real reason students choose job-op program so that it is disputed whether this program is wonderful.这里可以把重心略微调整下，大一上的课程到大四基本忘光了；大一注册不久纷纷中途放弃，觉得没有作用，那些参加考试的都没有及格，重修了好几次:L。呵呵，后面的开玩笑了，我想主要攻击点你没有错，最好调整至注册的课程并没有带来效果，个人认为更好些

The evidence about the grades of job-op student cannot persuade me either. There is no incomparability between different grades or different major. Even if the analogy is taken of students in same the grade and major, common sense tells us that the grade determined in many factors, such as students’ diligence and intelligence. Job-op students may get much higher grades than others before they take that program.

Then, we should turn our attention to the fact that 90% of the job-op students receive job offers within a month after their graduation. Can receiving job offers be equal to finding a good job? Are their jobs related to their major or do they earn average or above salaries in their area? Even if they find a good job, is there any relationship with job-op? They may have not engaged into that program for years and other factors such as their academic ability or intern experience may be more crucial to fascinate their employers. Even if there is something related, I still cannot believe job-op can give them great benefits until I know the job situation of students without taking job-op. 嗯，可以

Furthermore, even if the program is really wonderful, is this program suitable for WU as well? Perhaps the academic goals of PTC may be to cultivate skillful persons while Waymarsh University may be an art school and its goals may be to create some artists. If so, even if the job-op program is wonderful, we cannot draw the conclusion that it is suitable for Waymarsh University.对，很好

In conclusion, there are too many holes I can reveal from that suggestion. Thus, I do not believe that is a wise decision unless the vice present changes some more credit evidence or give me detailed explanation about all questions I mentioned above.

结尾可以，细节不该，argu论证层次可以，修改稿比原文进步很多，注意一些细小的语法错误不要再犯，祝取得好成绩，加油。