[B]分类讨论：学习类 第4组 有奖抢答——谁能回答我的问题！[/B]
预先公布明天的主题：Reasearch好，现在是今天的topic：TECHNIQUE，一共有5个题目：
28. "Students should memorize facts only after they have studied the ideas, trends, and concepts that help explain those facts. Students who have learned only facts have learned very little."
42. "Because learning is not a solitary activity but one that requires collaboration among people, students of all ages will benefit academically if they work frequently in groups."
59. "Too much emphasis is placed on role models. Instead of copying others, people should learn to think and act independently and thus make the choices that are best for them."
200. "The most elusive knowledge is self-knowledge, and it is usually acquired through solitude, rather than through interaction with others."
229. "The best way to learn a new subject or skill is to study small segments or details in great depth rather than to start by trying to develop a sense of the whole."
这一次各个题目之间联系相对比较散，不如上三次的那样紧密。主要都是围绕学习的过程和方法提出的论断。考虑到各个题目比较强的独立性，分来拟定提纲思路可能效果比较好一些。
我先来起一个引子：
28 What is the difference between FACTS and IDEAS. TRENDS, CONCEPTS that help to explain？ Is it possible that mere fact will suffice？Is such explanatory matter always necessary? Or are they always available? Or, is this statement conditionally correct？if so, what is the condition?
42 Is learning a kind of activity that require collaboration? What is collaboration? Is collaboration required ----- is it a must or is it supplementary? After all is it helpful? Is it possible that without collaboration one may learn much better? If collaboration is somewhat helpful, does this suggest people of different AGE should work in groups often? Btw, is “to work in groups” the perfect illustration of collaboration? If not classified by age, then what? Or shall people of the SAME age work together? Etc. (Still so many questions are reserved..)
59 What is role model? What is “copying others”? What do we actually copy from others? Does making choice that are best for oneself contradict to copying from others? The speaker claims “to think independently and THUS make the best choice for themselves”, yet HOW comes this “THUS” ? How much emphasis have been place on role models? Is it too much? What are the effects?
200 What is the most elusive knowledge? How do you define “self-knowledge”? Is it the most elusive knowledge, or does it resemble some certain feature other than being extremely elusive? Why? How is self-knowledge acquired? Which is more important in forming self-knowledge, solitude or interaction with others? Do they interact or function independently? Are they mutually exclusive? Is there a criterion to judge, a common feature to get compared? What is your idea or the formation of self-knowledge? Is there any conditional thing? (Further analysis can be fabulous)
229 What is “to study in details”? What is “to try develop a sense as a whole”? Who actually performs these? Is it possible that we don’t “try” to develop a sense as a whole but actually “receive” what is already developed? If so, is it beneficial or detrimental, considering diverse aspects? And the same questions for “details”. Also, is there any criterion to judge? Is there any conditional thing? Are they mutually exclusive? Synergic or antagonistic? Most importantly, think over how to respond to the “RATHER THAN”. Is the denial of integrity reasonable? Why?
我只是写出了部分可以引起思考的一些提示，其中一些应该说是破题的关键。大家可以针对这些问题写出自己的观点，或者提出新的问题，等等。now自由发言。 我先来， :) 大家批吧
28。"Students should memorize facts only after they have studied the ideas, trends, and concepts that help explain those facts. Students who have learned only facts have learned very little."
1、事实上，我们大部分时候是先memorize facts然后才被灌输
ideas,trends and concepts,比如下棋，如果没下过棋，一切方法都只是空中楼阁。
2、即使没有这些前人总结的方法，只要反复实践，也能形成自己的理论。更何况别人的ideas等也未必适合自己，比如中国有自己国情
3、当然，适当的参考也是必要的，但必须以事实为基础
我觉得学习方面的论据不是很多，大部分是自己身边的例子，不知道大家怎么想 42 有点问题在于无论one may 如何最后都应该落到helpful in... /being favorable/ more efficient/ highly recommended/ required 之类的。光说这边one may 如何如何而完全不做比较或者取反分析（if not, then...）是不可以的。
2楼的话，28-1尤其看不懂:confused: 深入解释一下？or 试试写一个小para？
cat is coming again~~~
i'm back~~~ :D59. "Too much emphasis is placed on role models. Instead of copying others, people should learn to think and act independently and thus make the choices that are best for them."
Role models are necessary for people to take as an instance in order to make the best choice for themselves. Copying others does not mean acting as others do all the time but referring the reflection of them in the similiar situation, with the purpose to determine the proper next step one should take. From this point of view, it is not controversial when an individual "copies" others as well as thinking and acting independently.
两天没有来这里了
明显感觉语言和逻辑下降~~~
晕死 病好了就要更努力啦
欢迎大家批判~~~~ 59 one question: 什么样的人可以被认作role models . 体育明星，歌星可以吗 试着写了两段59
role model对于成人和儿童作用的不同
.
As for children who are at the stage of forming one's value system are prone to imitate role models , since it is one of the ways they develop their own. However, they may not be aware of whether the behaviors of their role models are good or bad or suitable for them to carry out,that is to say, they think less before copying. Of course we cannot blame on our children's immature judgement or argue that it is wrong to establish role models for children. Children need help from parents to choose a right person as their role model and instruct them on how to think and judge independently and make decisions on their own. Moreover, I contend the society should pay more attention to the role models not in order to copy them but to supervise them for the seek of the ethos of the whole society ,especially for our children.
Most adults are rational enough to distinguish whether the deeds of role models are correct and act according to their own situations in order to make up decisions best for them, because of the way role models impact on individuals. First, adults will have his or her own judgement on the behavior of the role models. If what the role models do are admirable, it will be recognized and stored into the database of the brain , that is to say, it provide a feasible example when an adult encounters such questions or situation. Still it doesn't mean he or she will act totally according to the example ,most likely he will judge the whole circumstance and compare the example provided by the role model with other plans available and make some adjustment the fact that they are thinking and making choices independently , while not simply copying the deed. Consider, Kobe Bryant is the one you admire and set as your role model.No doubt a reasonable adult won't copy his misconduct . Thereby, though great influence role models may have on adults, to allege adults are copying instead of analysing and deciding by themselves are no more than overestimating the importance of role models . 6楼的问题本身就是一个需要定义的地方，完全可以讨论下去
如果用过浙江大学“新编大学英语”的话，应该记得有一个whether sports stars should be role model的文章，正反观点都有。
上面两段写得不错，除了第一段第一句有语法错误。我觉得对于adult其实还有进一步的区分：是intentionally的模仿和自我完善所选择的role model，或者处于一种impulse，并不是太理智的情况，例如崇拜，而选择的role model，这两者是不是需要区分呢？当然这是围绕role model的界定，本身扯得有点远了，最终必须回到learning上。 2楼的话，28-1尤其看不懂 深入解释一下？or 试试写一个小para？
我的第一段主要针对after来讲的，事实上，我们在学习的过程中，一般都是先接触事实，然后再由老师讲解那些idea等。比如下棋时，不可能学生还没有下过棋，老师就直接讲解棋理。 最初由 吭哧吭哧啃啃 发布
我的第一段主要针对after来讲的，事实上，我们在学习的过程中，一般都是先接触事实，然?.
以下省略......
如果从下棋这个例子来讲我觉得得看你的fact是怎么定义的了。目前给我个人的感觉是：所谓的“棋理”是一种fact，而怎样导出棋理，怎样理解，实战讲评，等等，是那种TREND之类的东西。“下过棋”作为“fact”我实在难以理解。
所以我看不太明白你的syllabus
做出比较明确的界定我想就可以把问题说清楚了吧。我觉得你还是写一个para看看，尤其是要把关键词给说清楚。 我觉得对于adult其实还有进一步的区分：是intentionally的模仿和自我完善所选择的role model，或者处于一种impulse，并不是太理智的情况，例如崇拜，而选择的role model，这两者是不是需要区分呢？当然这是围绕role model的界定，本身扯得有点远了，最终必须回到learning上。
我觉得可行，可以按是不是理智的来发展段落。
另一个问题是这个题目的重点是什么，你认为是learning，i would argue against that 重点在role model 对个人的影响，范围好像要大于learn 今天大伙还是不够积极啊
200题怎么看啊 最初由 pooh 发布
今天大伙还是不够积极啊
200题怎么看啊
200. The most elusive knowledge is self-knowledge, and it is usually acquired through solitude, rather than through interaction with others."
self-knowledge... in my opinion, it can be acquired not only from books, movies, radios, also can come from people, for instance, the argument with your neighbours, talks with your parents and classmates, which can also be defined as interaction with others. one should not minus people out of the 'outside' world.
besides, i do believe there are no classes between different knowledge, like knowlege of your own mind cannot be described as second class comparing with those profound ideas in the world of books.
ISSUE 28. 我觉得应该分开来写，不知道对不对
Whether it is necessary to study the ITC of any given subject depends on we are willing to delve into it or not.1. For the subject we are majored in or rather interested in, it could never be excessive studying the ITC of it. ... ...
2. Studying the history and trend gives us an overview of the set of knowledges and such awareness would direct us to study more efficient.
3. Without clear fundermental concepts, we might easily be confused during our futher study because of the more complex problems we facing. ... ...
4. If we are only going to learn a little about something, or for practical purposes. Then the effort we made on studying ITC might be meaningless and just waste of time.
5. In modern society, the set of knowledge has become so complex that understanding all the facotr belong to the domain we are majored in is a challenging task, not to mention obtaining the ideas, trends and concepts of others.
Admit that ITC is useful, but ... ...
Re: ISSUE 28. 我觉得应该分开来写，不知道对不对
最初由 huangry 发布Whether it is necessary to study the ITC of any given subject depends on we are willing to delve into it or not.
1. For the subject we are majored in or rath..
以下省略......
good. 这个提纲不错。
第二点的例子：
例如微积分原理的证明，早就忘光光光了，会用不就得了，谁管他cos为什么微下去就变成sin，记住fact，足够。（ps 一部分学理科的人的感觉）btw，是不是要learn和是不是要know我觉得也可以分开，例如我不需要知道d cosx = -sinx 的具体证明步骤，但是我能知道这个东西是推出来的。好比那个“了解”“识记”“应用”，程度上有差异。到底到什么程度，可以按照自己的理解去定义。
Re: Re: ISSUE 28. 我觉得应该分开来写，不知道对不对
最初由 imong 发布最初由 huangry 发布
Whether it is necessary to study the ITC of any given subject depends on we are willing to delve into it or not.
1. For..
以下省略......
然后我自己狠狠地反驳一下自己：今天在实验室里想到的，蒸乙醚要用水浴而不是电热套或者油浴。我已经记不得为什么非要用水浴了，但是很清楚地记得做过这样的操作，当时还很犯嘀咕。而我能够接受这样的fact并且清晰的记忆至今，我认为原因很可能在于当时向老师提出了这个问题并得到了原理上的解释。
也许最后的效果是只有fact被留下记忆，trend可能被忘得干干净净，但是没有trend的话，是否能够成功学习fact，某些情况下有可能是问号。
在这里提出一个可能（也应该说是一定情况下的），供大家参考。
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