Argument145，好像是机井阿狗，打鼾长胖少吃多动

needleUID：158900

Argument145
A new study collected data that shows that people who snore are more likely to gain weight than are people who do not snore. It is well known that many people who snore also stop breathing frequently during the night for a few seconds, a condition called sleep apnea. The interruption of breathing wakes the person—often so briefly that the waking goes unnoticed—and can leave the person too tired during the day to exercise. Anyone who snores, therefore, should try to eat less than the average person and to exercise more.

Giving some postulations and a result of a new study, the arguer recommend people who snore to try to eat less than the average person and to exercise more. It really sounds reasonable in skin-deep, but such a recommendation does suffer for logical flaws as represented as following.

Primarily, the result of study cited by the arguer is questionable. As a common sense, a reliable result comes from such a study directed by authorities in a scientific way. As part of the request, the subjects who are studied should not only be representative enough for the whole situation but also should be in a large number. Since all the factors are not mentioned at all in this argument, to cite and believe in the statistics of the study is nothing but a reckless and irresponsible decision.

Next, even if the result of the study is credible, the arguer still fails to provide sufficient evidence to show the causal link between the people who snore with their eating habit. The fact that people who snore are more likely to gain weight perhaps does nothing with how much they eat. Nothing is offered to prove that they usually eat more or at least equally to the average. It is entirely possible that they eat even less than the average. Their gaining weight is likely to be linked with the snoring habit as the study shows for some nerval diseases. To suggest them try to eat less than the average is an advocacy lack of round consideration.

What is more, it is incorrect to advise them to do more exercises by the arguer, too. Firstly, as the same reason mentioned above, there is no necessary relationship between those who snore with their exercise habit because it is kept unknown whether they do exercises enough or insufficiently or too much. Secondly, is the fact suitable for all snoring people that they take pains of sleep apnea? The word used by the arguer “many” should not be misunderstood as “all” randomly. Moreover, granted that sleep apnea makes all snoring people too tired to exercise, it is well likely to make the sense even worse if they are forced to do more exercise under such a feeble physical situation, even cause them in dangers especially without doctors’ direction. In brief, more exercises would probably not be an advice as good as the arguer states for the snoring people’s health.

In conclusion, the flaws represented above do weaken the arguer's reasoning. His/her suggestion would not be acceptable until more information about the actual relationship between people’s  snoring habit and their health situation is provided. And more exact studies about the food amount they take every day and the extent of their exercise should be waged as well.（445）

困死了，睡去了。感觉论据之间都没有什么因果关系，这个作者思维真奇怪……感觉写的不好，改了一点点。大家看吧！

补：我晕死了，结尾写的都不是完整的句子，刚才自己看下了一跳。看来3点磨针磨不出什么好结果……555……

GORQIUID：151275

感觉needle的关于study的论述很经济也，可以用在所有关于study的文章中
提纲是不是：
1，study缺乏科学性
2， 没有理由认为吃得多跟打鼾有关系
3， 加强锻炼时没有道理的
我觉得还有一点，常识一般是胖的人容易打鼾阿，看起来作者是颠倒了这个因果关系
还有就是就算会醒也没关系，就跟做梦似的么，也许他们睡得还多呢

needleUID：158900

最初由 GORQI 发布
[B]感觉needle的关于study的论述很经济也，可以用在所有关于study的文章中
提纲是不是：
1，study缺乏科学性
2， 没有理由认为吃得多跟打鼾有关系
3， 加强锻炼时没有道理的
我觉得还有一点，常识一般是胖的人容易打鼾阿，看起来作者是颠倒了这个因果关系
还有就是就算会醒也没关系，就跟做梦似的么，也许他们睡得还多呢[/B]

我反驳study/survey一直都比较省笔墨……会不会被认为摩版呢？问题是每个句子都是我自己组织的……

提纲有一点问题

1.study
2.不是认为吃得多的人会打鼾，原文的意思是打鼾的人更容易长胖，所以他们要少吃。这一段就反驳打鼾的人不一定要少吃。
3.锻炼

胖的人容易打鼾……这未必是公理式的self-proven的常识哦！我看做不得论据……阿狗里面我还是觉得不应该提出没有理由的论据的。因为他说打鼾的人容易长胖，你证明其荒谬，难道你提出胖的人容易打鼾自己可以证明吗？

我持反对意见哦：）

睡觉老醒那个，我当作事实来用了，没有反驳它的可靠性。感觉没什么可反驳的……除非就说没有理由证明他们的确很累……好像有点强词夺理？

这一篇我写的不太好，也不是很顺，欢迎狠拍

casablancaUID：160003

145.snore,gain weight 论断：打鼾的人应该试着比一般人少吃点并多运动。因为一项新的研究收集数据显示打鼾的人比不打的人更容易长胖。大家都知道很多打鼾的人在夜里也会经常有几秒钟的停止呼吸，这叫睡眠窒息状态。这种呼吸的间断会使人醒过来，经常非常短而不被注意到，这会使人在白天感觉特别累而不愿运动。 •前提：打鼾的人不运动。没有证据，没有资料。有可能还运动。 •前提：打鼾的人白天觉得累。也是没有证据。不被察觉的清醒是否会影响睡眠质量。 •证据有问题：一是描述不科学，不知道是否有代表性。二是，别的原因使得长胖，而打鼾不是长胖的原因。 •结论，即使打鼾会使累，也不应该少吃多运动。都累了，还苦着，身体会坏的。

先拎个偷来的东东占座
晚上再来给狗整容！ :D

casablancaUID：160003

No.1 Argument145，好像是机井阿狗，打鼾长胖少吃多动
Argument145
A new study collected data that shows that people who snore are more likely to gain weight than are people who do not snore. It is well known that many people who snore also stop breathing frequently during the night for a few seconds, a condition called sleep apnea. The interruption of breathing wakes the person—often so briefly that the waking goes unnoticed—and can leave the person too tired during the day to exercise. Anyone who snores, therefore, should try to eat less than the average person and to exercise more.

Giving some postulations and a result of a new study, the arguer recommend (recommends) people who snore to try to eat less than the average person and to exercise more. It really sounds reasonable in skin-deep (介是个adj.吧), but such a recommendation does suffer for (是不是应该用from?我不太肯定suffer的用法) logical flaws as represented as following.

Primarily, the result of study cited by the arguer is questionable. (是不是把result简单叙述一下比较好，整段都没有提到诶，我拿不准，大家讨论！) As a common sense, a reliable result comes from such a study directed by authorities in a scientific way. As part of the request, the subjects who are (who are->being) studied should not only be representative enough for the whole situation but also should (前面的should在not only 之前出现，后面是不是就不需要再写should乐？) be in a large number. Since all the factors are not mentioned at all in this argument, to cite and believe in the statistics of the study is nothing but a reckless and irresponsible decision. (我的习惯是在段尾表明自己的观点rather than 批驳作者，不知你怎么看？我可能会写：since all the factors are not mentioned at all in this argument, it is reckless and irresponsible to believe the statistics and adopt the suggestion from the arguer.)

Next, even if the result of the study is credible, the arguer still fails to provide sufficient evidence to show the causal link between the people who snore with their eating habit (between…with ...?没见过介种用法诶，请教). The fact that people who snore are more likely to gain weight perhaps does nothing with (the fact…does nothing with…感觉有点怪哦，does not have any relationship with会不会好一点？) how much they eat. Nothing is offered to (感觉介种说法比较口语化，换一些8股的说法可能显的正式一点8) prove that they usually eat more or at least equally to the average. It is entirely possible that they eat even less than the average. Their gaining weight is likely to be linked with the snoring habit as the study shows for some nerval diseases (感觉有点突兀，for some other reasons, such as…神经系统，消化系统之类的问题，往多里说呗). (So,) To suggest them try to eat less than the average is an advocacy lack of round consideration.

What is more, it is incorrect to advise them (who? 介可是T.S啊！) to do more exercises by the arguer, too. (觉得介个句子有点歧义的说，it is incorrect for the arguer to advise the people who snore to do more exercises, too.) Firstly, as the same reason mentioned above, there is no necessary relationship between those who snore with (还是between… with …的用法) their exercise habit because it is kept unknown (be kept done/adj.?…我不太理解 :( ，请教,kept是否可以当still来理解？) whether they do exercises enough or insufficiently or too much.(由于不知道运动量所以不能说打呼噜和运动习惯有关？there is no manifest certification shows the relationship between snore and excessive exercises because…) Secondly, is the fact suitable for all snoring people that they take pains (take pains to do是努力或者小心的意思，不知后面加of是虾米意思? 是指suffer吗？) of sleep apnea? The word used by the arguer “many” should not be misunderstood as “all” randomly. (喜欢介个表达，偷去！ :p 不过“many”放在word后面是不是紧凑些？) Moreover, granted that sleep apnea makes all snoring people too tired to exercise, it is well likely to make the sense even worse if they are forced to do more exercise under such a feeble physical situation,(介个让步的逻辑关系感觉不是很通啊！granted有点怪怪的，让我再想想… :rolleyes: ) (and) even cause them in dangers especially without doctors’ direction. In brief, more exercises would probably not be an advice as good as the arguer states for the snoring people’s health.

In conclusion, the flaws represented above do weaken the arguer's reasoning. His/her suggestion would not be acceptable (accepted是否更好点？) until more information about the actual relationship between people’s snoring habit and their health situation is provided. And more exact studies about the food amount they take every day and the extent of their exercise should be waged as well.（445）
结尾没问题啦！

困死了，睡去了。感觉论据之间都没有什么因果关系，这个作者思维真奇怪……感觉写的不好，改了一点点。大家看吧！

补：我晕死了，结尾写的都不是完整的句子，刚才自己看下了一跳。看来3点磨针磨不出什么好结果……555……

我也觉得介只狗很BT.到现在对其逻辑关系都不是很清楚，觉滴能攻击的点差不多就这些乐，不过很难展开的说。 :mad: 脑子也乱掉了！可能有的地方是我理解的问题，参考+讨论8！ :cool:

needleUID：158900

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]Giving some postulations and a result of a new study, the arguer recommend (recommends) people who snore to try to eat less than the average person and to exercise more. It really sounds reasonable in skin-deep (介是个adj.吧), but such a recommendation does suffer for (是不是应该用from?我不太肯定suffer的用法) logical flaws as represented as following.
[/B]

skin-deep晕，的确是adj....怎么才能把它变成n.或者adv.呢？查了半天，没有找到……恐怕我要换一下说法才行了。
recommends这一类的错误估计这一篇不少，3点磨针磨的……555
suffer for=suffer from，换个用法感觉新鲜一点

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]Primarily, the result of study cited by the arguer is questionable. (是不是把result简单叙述一下比较好，整段都没有提到诶，我拿不准，大家讨论！)[/B]

这个……因为我是就一般的客观规律而言的（科学性）……maybe u a right... roger that

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]As part of the request, the subjects who are (who are->being) studied should not only be representative enough for the whole situation but also should (前面的should在not only 之前出现，后面是不是就不需要再写should乐？) be in a large number.[/B]

如果用being，前面就不用who了。有who是定语从句了，应该是完整句。
should应该是我用的8对

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]Since all the factors are not mentioned at all in this argument, to cite and believe in the statistics of the study is nothing but a reckless and irresponsible decision. (我的习惯是在段尾表明自己的观点rather than 批驳作者，不知你怎么看？我可能会写：since all the factors are not mentioned at all in this argument, it is reckless and irresponsible to believe the statistics and adopt the suggestion from the arguer.)
[/B]

俺也批驳了，不过说的比较虚……你给的这个句子多了对adopt the suggestion的否定……嗯，知道了。

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B](between…with ...?没见过介种用法诶，请教). [/B]

还请教！555，那是困的……下面一个between也4滴

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]The fact that people who snore are more likely to gain weight perhaps does nothing with (the fact…does nothing with…感觉有点怪哦，does not have any relationship with会不会好一点？) [/B]

这个？是不是你给的正式一点？

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]What is more, it is incorrect to advise them (who? 介可是T.S啊！) to do more exercises by the arguer, too. (觉得介个句子有点歧义的说，it is incorrect for the arguer to advise the people who snore to do more exercises, too.) [/B]

口黑口黑，明显比我的严谨

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]because it is kept unknown (be kept done/adj.?…我不太理解  ，请教,kept是否可以当still来理解？)[/B]

be kept done/adj. keep表示的意思类似于“保持”

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B](由于不知道运动量所以不能说打呼噜和运动习惯有关？there is no manifest certification shows the relationship between snore and excessive exercises because…) [/B]

这句8是这个意思。由于不知道运动量，所以不能说那些打呼噜的人和他们的运动习惯有关系……ft...这是我写的句子？晕菜了，翻译过来就傻眼了……哈哈哈哈，改！！！！

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]Moreover, granted that sleep apnea makes all snoring people too tired to exercise, it is well likely to make the sense even worse if they are forced to do more exercise under such a feeble physical situation,(介个让步的逻辑关系感觉不是很通啊！granted有点怪怪的，让我再想想…  )(and) even cause them in dangers especially without doctors’ direction. [/B]

这回应该没有错吧？更进一步说，就算sa让所有打呼噜的人都过于疲倦以至于不能运动，也很有可能如果强迫他们在虚弱的身体条件下进行更多的运动会让事情变得更糟，甚至会使他们出危险，尤其是在没有医生知道的情况下。granted that...标准的让步句啊！

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]我也觉得介只狗很BT.到现在对其逻辑关系都不是很清楚，觉滴能攻击的点差不多就这些乐，不过很难展开的说。  脑子也乱掉了！可能有的地方是我理解的问题，参考+讨论8！ [/B]

这只狗真的很怪……前后没有什么真正的因果关系……不好写……

原谅3点磨针的人的简单的语法错误吧！：）

needleUID：158900

谢谢大家的关心……明天开始不熬夜了……

casablancaUID：160003

我还是不会引用，原谅一下8
1。如果用being，前面就不用who了。有who是定语从句了，应该是完整句。
我的意思是指将who are换成being(由于不会写彩色的字，sigh...)
觉得这样会紧凑一点，因为定语很短。
2。更进一步说，就算sa让所有打呼噜的人都过于疲倦以至于不能运动，也很有可能如果强迫他们在虚弱的身体条件下进行更多的运动会让事情变得更糟，甚至会使他们出危险，尤其是在没有医生知道的情况下。
说实话，你译过来了我也不是很能理解 :( 让步句式肯定是没有问题滴，但是句意，我还是转不过来 :rolleyes:
就算。。。不能运动。。。也有可能。。。变得更糟。。。
感觉按常理来说的话，就算不能运动--〉也不能不运动。大相径庭了！ :p
ft...脑袋秀逗乐，一会再过来理解。。 :cool:
3。原谅3点磨针的人的简单的语法错误吧！：）
口黑口黑，因为结构上没有什么问题，就在这里挑刺了
我也是看的时候才能发现，自己写的时候错的稀里哗啦滴 :D

bqjieUID：144997

Giving some postulations and a result of a new study, （我感觉这里用这个从句不适合，在前面加一个after可以好些）the arguer recommend（s） people who snore to try to eat less than the average person and to exercise more. It really sounds reasonable in skin-deep, but such a recommendation does suffer for logical flaws as represented as following.

Primarily, the result of study cited by the arguer is questionable. As a common sense, a reliable result comes from such a study directed by authorities in a scientific way. （我感觉这句话可有可无，还不如直接说哪里不符合常规呢）As（前一句as，换一个好些吧） part of the request, the subjects who are studied should not only be representative enough for the whole situation but also should be in a large number. Since all the factors are not mentioned at all in this argument, to cite and believe in the statistics of the study is nothing but a reckless and irresponsible decision. 其实认真看下来，这么长的一段话，只有第三句讲到一点具体的内容。

Next, even if the result of the study is credible, the arguer still fails to provide sufficient evidence to show the causal link between the people who snore with their eating habit（s）. The fact that people who snore are more likely to gain weight perhaps does nothing with how much they eat. Nothing is offered to prove that they usually eat more or at least equally to the average. It is entirely possible that they eat even less than the average. Their gaining weight is likely to be linked with the snoring habit as the study shows for some nerval diseases. To suggest them try to eat less than the average is an advocacy lack of round consideration. （以上几句话有明显的逻辑关系，是否应该加些连词，使得思路更加清晰些呢。而且连用了5个单句，，我感觉不太习惯了，其实这里一些因果关系用从句表达会更好些）

What is more, it is incorrect to advise them to do more exercises by the arguer, too. Firstly, as the same reason mentioned above, there is no necessary relationship between those who snore with their exercise habit because it is kept unknown whether they do exercises enough or insufficiently or too much. Secondly, is the fact suitable for all snoring people that they take pains of sleep apnea? The word used by the arguer “many” should not be misunderstood as “all” randomly. Moreover, granted that sleep apnea makes all snoring people too tired to exercise, it is well likely to make the sense even worse if they are forced to do more exercise under such a feeble physical situation, （and）even cause them in dangers（有这样说cause sb in sth？） especially without doctors’ direction. In brief, more exercises would probably not be an advice as good as the arguer states for the snoring people’s health.

In conclusion, the flaws represented above do weaken the arguer's reasoning. His/her suggestion would not be acceptable until more information about the actual relationship between people’s snoring habit and their health situation is provided. And more exact studies about the food amount they take every day and the extent of their exercise should be waged as well.（445）
要想抓刺还真不容易，，，呵呵。。好话不说了。。。。我觉得body1写的弱一些，，有点空。后面两个论证都算到位的了，，是限时的吗？？
关于这题我觉得是有点摸不到头脑的，，后来觉得应该是这样一个推理关系。睡觉差－》缺少运动－》肥胖－》于是就建议少吃多运动了。不知道可不可以认同呢？这样看来批驳哪里就很清晰了。Needle侧重的是最后一个箭头，用两个body讲结论，但是并没有注意到sleep apnea这点的论证作用，所以几乎就没有涉及，只是在body3的最后一个观点小提一下。这大概是自己都有点抓不清逻辑吧，所以把这个就省了。

最后提点建议吧，，首先，文章还是用些transition会显得更有逻辑，评分也经常拿这个做标准。其次，一些句子用的意思很是含糊，如，1。The word used by the arguer “many” should not be misunderstood as “all” randomly.(还不如直接说，，哪里有万能的方法适用所有人呢？)2。the subjects who are studied should not only be representative enough for the whole situation but also should be in a large number. 何谓representative enough呢？？尝试用更明了更具体的话表达会更好的。。

还有2天了，，needle加油！！！！！

casablancaUID：160003

最初由 needle 发布
[B]谢谢bqjie。。。明天再看……

卡萨同学，理想永远只是理想……:( [/B]

口黑口黑
大家都是在为实现理想而奋斗啊 :cool:
for example:我昨天回这个帖子滴时候有一个理想就是会用“引用”，今天已经实现乐 :D

bqjieUID：144997

最初由 casablanca 发布
[B]口黑口黑
大家都是在为实现理想而奋斗啊 :coo..

以下省略...... [/B]

哈哈，，我在学引用阿。但是笨笨的我不明白为什么可以选择一句一句引用的呢。。。。。？？？