Issue49 (76,118) We can usually learn more from people whose view we share

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49) Claim: We can usually learn much more from people whose views we share than from those whose views contradict our own.
Reason: Disagreement can cause stress and inhibit learning.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim and the reason on which that claim is based.
没有相关Issue题目。
请回帖时按照指引链接列出英语提纲并用汉语解释并根据指引点评楼上的提纲。 第一个回帖的同学不必点评。
指引链接：https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1777364-1-1.html

zsczslUID: 2888426

祝王老师圣诞节快乐！我已经按照老师的意见修改了提纲，还请老师再次点评，多谢！

49. Claim: We can usually learn much more from people whose views we share than from those whose views contradict our own.

Reason: Disagreement can cause stress and inhibit learning.

Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim and the reason on which that claim is based.

TS (pt1, pt2, pt3, pt4): Some people assert that the contradiction will result in tension among different individuals and impede the process of study, and hence we are likely to obtain more knowledge from the persons whose thoughts are the same as ours than from those ones who opposing us. In fact, the basis and the conclusion are not always valid in every case, since either the levels of the pressure caused by disagreement or the outcomes of study under the stress can differ from one person to another. For a sensitive and irrational person, even the little dissent can evoke heavy pressure and prevent her from acquiring useful information. Consequently, such people are only able to study efficiently when communicating with the individuals who share the same ideas with them. In contrast, the insensitive and rational individual will experience less stress and is able to easily handle such problem, so her learning process will not be disturbed. As a result, this kind of person will benefit from the controversy and then attain a higher intellectual level. In reality, the majority of the people around us fall between these two extremes, and therefore I agree neither with the reason nor with the assertion in the statement.

ts (pt1): To begin with, if a person is easily offended or upset and cannot effectively manage her pressure, she will succumb to tension caused by contradiction. 题目所说意见不统一导致人类紧张的确不假，这是人性的一部分。但这种紧张的程度和处理该紧张的方式因人而异，有的人神经特别敏感，别人对她稍有异议，她就火冒三丈，而且根本就不知道怎样理性地疏导、处理这种紧张，那么她的学习过程当然被不同意见妨碍了。这种例子在日常生活中很多，比如我们在学校也许遇到过这种同学，我们刚一反驳她的观点，她就显得很生气，大吵大闹甚至摔东西，或者不用理性思考来论证她的观点，而是非要以强词夺理来争辩她是正确的。最后分歧往往演变为无意义的争吵，结果当然阻碍了学习。既然这种人没办法从不同意见中学到知识，那么他们就只有从意见相同的人那里学习了。   

ts (pt2): With respect to those people who are phlegmatic and/or can properly tackle stress, they are actually capable of obtaining more information from the persons who disagree with them. 也许是基因使然，或是教育塑造，有些人就是不易冲动，哪怕自己的观点被别人批得体无完肤，又或者面对分歧带来的紧张情绪，有的人能以一种理性科学的态度对待，化压力为动力，更加仔细地检验自己的观点并用以理服人的方式劝说自己的反对派，因而促进自己的学习。比如说，天文学家Kepler根据Tycho的观测数据计算得出太阳系内的恒星运行轨道是ellipses而非circles，他的观点当即遭到包括Galileo在内的同行的反对。面对质疑，他不急不躁，通过听取别人的意见，进行了更加严密的计算和具有说服力的论证，最后完善了自己的理论，也让大多数人接受了它。由此可见，对于镇定和能处理压力的人，不同意见是能促进学习的。

ts (pt3): Since the two kinds of individuals discussed above merely account for a small fraction of total population of the real world, we cannot judge whether the most people acquire more knowledge from the persons who agree with them than from their opponents or not. 现实中大多数人是要么敏感但又能控制自己的情绪，要么就是不敏感同时也不能控制自己的情绪。对于他们来说，题目里的依据和结论成不成立，那就得具体问题具体分析了。比如在民主国家里，人们总体倾向于包容不同意见，不大会轻易紧张，那么由于不同思想的碰撞往往能拓宽人们的思路，给人以相互学习的空间，同时激发人们追求真理的热情，意见分歧便能促进人们的学习。而专制国家的居民则被要求统一思想，因此他们对异议非常敏感，而且无法合适地排解自己的压力，一旦分歧产生，压力就导致他们慌了神，一时间意识形态的上纲上线有之，互相攻击谩骂有之，就是学不到什么有价值的东西。而题目里的阐述只提及了更适用于专制国的情况，因此是不全面的，所以我不同意。

zsczslUID: 2888426

请王老师点评一下我写的大纲，谢谢！

49. Claim: We can usually learn much more from people whose views we share than from those whose views contradict our own.

Reason: Disagreement can cause stress and inhibit learning.

Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim and the reason on which that claim is based.

TS (pt1, pt2, pt3): In this world where we are living, it is not rare to hear the assertion that since the contradiction will tension people and hinder study, a human being is likely to obtain more knowledge from the individuals of the same opinion than from those having opposite one. Advocates of such point of view may take the fruitless quarrel over a topic in our daily life as an example, yet I reckon them have hastily generalized the situation. In fact, both of the claim and the related reason fail to depict the panorama how the disagreement between persons influences their learning process. Although contradiction is able to render people more stressful, it only do more harm than good to the study in the condition where rational thinking is absent. When human beings are unfettered from emotional response to the antagonistic views and learn to deal with the pressure in an appropriate manner, they can make full use of the stress to advance the edge of their knowledge. The instances from history and from our everyday lives have proved that people indeed benefit from the persons who oppose them.

我觉得你写的句子模板的味道很重 并没有什么实质内容
要注意标点的用法 , yet
in the condition where -> when 或where
advance the edge不确定有这个说法
我没有看到一个有层次的主旨句  你的三个分论点之间没有什么连贯
还有一个问题就是 题目要求是问你reason和claim你是否同意 你好像没有正面回应  
总的来说第一段太长了 套话太多


ts (pt1): To begin with, irrational attitude to the dissent instead of the conflict between persons itself prohibits the study process, albeit the human nature determines that contradiction is often accompanied by tension. 题目所说意见不统一导致人类紧张的确不假，这是人性的一部分。倘若人类不对这种紧张进行理性的疏导、处理，那么的确会使学习过程受阻。例如，在日常生活中，一般大众缺乏理性，他们面对分歧带来的紧张，慌乱、狂暴，进而开始无意义的争吵，结果当然阻碍了学习。

To begin with, irrational attitude to the dissent instead of the conflict between persons itself prohibits the study process, albeit the human nature determines that contradiction is often accompanied by tension.
不知道你这句话想表达什么
prohibit和inhibit意思是不一样的
你好像也没有分情况讨论
而且你这段也没有例子


ts (pt2): However, once individuals acquired the rational and scientific way to tackle their pressure resulting from the disagreement, they can progress in their study. 面对分歧带来的紧张，人们如果能以一种理性科学的态度对待，那么自然能化压力为动力，促进自己的学习。比如说，比一般大众理性得多的科学家，在面对挑战自己的理论时，采取的就是一种心平气和，小心论证的态度。不同意见导致的紧张使他们或者进行更多的试验以得到更多的数据，或者进行更为严密的逻辑推理，要么推翻了自己的旧理论，建立了新理论，要么巩固了旧理论，反正是促进了自己的学习。


你不如直接说对于科学家这句话是不成立的  


ts (pt3): Moreover, both the past and the present facts can justify that human beings can learn much more from the persons who possess different ideas. 由于不同思想的碰撞往往能拓宽人们的思路，激发人们学习的热情，加上人类在一定情况下可以理性对待不同观点，那么意见分歧便能促进人们的学习。从历史的观点来看，中国春秋战国时期，百家争鸣，当时思想文化就得到极大发展，这是学习成果的体现；而明清则是思想大一统的时代，那时中国文化全面衰落，这也是学习成果的体现。中世纪的欧洲，人们全部分享教会的思想，科技文化停滞不前，反映了当时人们学习的情况；文艺复兴时期，各种不同思想激烈碰撞，相互学习，造就了欧洲文明的大发展。从现实的观点来看，如今真正民主国家的居民各抒己见，人们能更自由地学习，维护与巩固了其发达的经济、政治、文化成果；而专制国家的居民则被要求统一思想，在许多领域里，要么根本就没有自己的思想，只有被灌输的教条，要么意见超级一致，于是他们的学习停滞不前，并使得这些国家还在物质和精神尽皆匮乏的状态里徘徊。



Moreover, both the past and the present facts 这是什么意思 can justify that human beings can learn much more from the persons who possess different ideas

你这一段举这么多例子和前面两段讲的内容都没什么关联


我感觉你写英语完全是想当然
不是努力回忆你以前看过的英语是怎么写的 而是自己想到一个点 然后按照自己对英语的理解去写句子 这样写出来的句子实在惨不忍睹 按理说你应该读过很多英语书 对什么样的句子写得好应该有基本的判断

我觉得你应该多去看看OG的范文和我博客里的示范 尝试一下按照比较成熟的思路来写提纲  多做一些模仿练习 不要老是按照你自己习惯的方法去写 尤其是写英语句子的时候 不要随心所欲 要多想想平时看的文章 自己写下来的句子、短语以前有没有见过别人这么用 如果没有 最好别用

这个你可以看看
https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1791889-1-1.html

chrishong119UID: 3412641

tesolchina 发表于 2014-12-4 08:30
请抄原题
lear - learn
你的ts3在TS里没有看到

我是想着在ts1 ts2里从不同的两个角度去分析claim，而对于reason，因为是写三段，所以，就在ts3里一起讨论了从两个角度看reason的情况。老师，那像这样的 claim+reason, 一般怎么写怎么布局比较好啊？

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

chrishong119 发表于 2014-12-3 21:51
TS
    Based on the reason that disagreement can cause stress and inhibit learning, the speaker ...

请抄原题
lear - learn
你的ts3在TS里没有看到
这道题的结构是 claim+reason 如果你按分领域讨论的话 需要指出在不同的领域 reason是否成立及claim是否成立 而你的ts里没有回应reason
你似乎在ts3里回应了reason 这样做会将claim和reason分割开来 不利于形成一个整合的观点和论证

chrishong119UID: 3412641

    TS
    Based on the reason that disagreement can cause stress and inhibit learning, the speaker claims that we can usually lear much more from people whose views we share than from those whose views contradict our own. In reality, progress would be made for us to learn from people whose views we share in fields such as business, but in science, the situation is on the contrary, because disagreement sometimes could be beneficial.

    ts1
    In business, it would be a great thing for us to learn from people whose views we share. 对商业前景的相同判断、对市场的共同认识、对公司的发展战略的共同看法，都很能够让人很积极的去学习对方的长处，并倍起精神的与有着共同想法的一起努力，同时，努力当中会不停的闪发出一些有价值的想法。

    ts2
    While in fields like science, discussions with people who hold contradict views would be necessary for any scientific progress. 物理学，都想用自己的理论解释存在的事物，并预测未来，那么，就得非常站得住脚，就得与哪些与我们持有不同观点的人讨论（尤其是专业权威），同时，为了自己的理论更加有说服力与生命力，自己本人也会去质问。

   ts3
    Disagreement would cause stress and inhibit learning if the atmosphere is not so harmony, but it would be significantly beneficial when people exorcise tolerance and are open and friendly to each other. 国家领导层的抉择、公司决策层的意见不合，若仅仅是为了反对而反对，氛围很不和谐，那么势必会让人很有压力，也阻碍了学习。不过，如公司发展上的分歧，若人们是包容的、友好的，那么相互间的讨论肯定会很有益于人们的进步，并有助于公司的发展。

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

杨家齐 发表于 2014-11-22 18:30
The statement advocates that higher learning efficiency lies in situations when people's views are a ...

49) Claim: We can usually learn much more from people whose views we share than from those whose views contradict our own.
Reason: Disagreement can cause stress and inhibit learning.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim and the reason on which that claim is based.


The statement advocates that higher learning efficiency lies in situations when people's views are alike, claiming that we can learn more from people in the same pool than those who contradict us. I concede that the reason is understandable in regarding undue discord as a deterrence for learning. However, aside from the foregoing scenario, assorted voices, abounded in any learning environment, can be of high value thus be worth noticing by us.

advocate和claim前面的主语通常是人 可以说 the author of the statement …

higher learning efficiency lies-> learning efficiency is higher

in the same pool (?)

assorted voices (?)

thus be worth 语法


Hardly could we expect an one-hundred-percent agreement from everyone on a specific issue. 不论如何，在一个自由民主的学习和讨论的氛围中，异议是一定存在的。压制不同的声音或者勉强趋同是不利于学习的。

你这个句子没有概述全段的主要意思


Learning from those affluently assorted ideas is always helpful. Different opinions would yield more fresh ideas and right decisions compared to similar viewpoints. 在承认异议存在的必然性之后，进一步说明异议存在的必要性。通过不同意见的表达，同学们得以从不同的领域验证一项理论；发现project中存在的问题予 以改进；完善自己的成果等等。通过辩论和头脑风暴等途径，更加强化自己对所学知识的理解。


affluently assorted ？

more fresh ideas and right decisions 这是两个不同的点 你需要解释为什么意见不同会产生新的想法及更有可能make right decision
这两个点是可以成立的 但是你后面的汉语解释并没有解释清楚

you may talk about how people who disagree usually come from different background and look at an issue from different perspectives; as a result, it is possible to find some hybrid solution or interdisciplinary approach which are often more creative

also when people disagree, they will try to defend their own opinions and challenge the people from the other sides; through these debates, they can all examine the issue more thoroughly by reviewing all the evidence; ultimately, they may be more likely to reach a more rational decision





Granted that cooperating with those who are in accord with our view can largely promote efficiency and create a more harmonious atmosphere. Nevertheless, the art of impugning can challange the advocation of abandoning disagreements.反对的艺术：首先要提出自己的出发点是好的并肯定对方；对事不对人；加入客观的证据和数据论证自己的异议；不加个人情感。

或许你可以在这一段重点讲reach more rational decision  

杨家齐UID: 3566396

The statement advocates that higher learning efficiency lies in situations when people's views are alike, claiming that we can learn more from people in the same pool than those who contradict us. I concede that the reason is understandable in regarding undue discord as a deterrence for learning. However, aside from the foregoing scenario, assorted voices, abounded in any learning environment, can be of high value thus be worth noticing by us.

Hardly could we expect an one-hundred-percent agreement from everyone on a specific issue. 不论如何，在一个自由民主的学习和讨论的氛围中，异议是一定存在的。压制不同的声音或者勉强趋同是不利于学习的。

Learning from those affluently assorted ideas is always helpful. Different opinions would yield more fresh ideas and right decisions compared to similar viewpoints. 在承认异议存在的必然性之后，进一步说明异议存在的必要性。通过不同意见的表达，同学们得以从不同的领域验证一项理论；发现project中存在的问题予以改进；完善自己的成果等等。通过辩论和头脑风暴等途径，更加强化自己对所学知识的理解。

Granted that cooperating with those who are in accord with our view can largely promote efficiency and create a more harmonious atmosphere. Nevertheless, the art of impugning can challange the advocation of abandoning disagreements.反对的艺术：首先要提出自己的出发点是好的并肯定对方；对事不对人；加入客观的证据和数据论证自己的异议；不加个人情感。