issue153 怀疑精神 顺便求解例证的一个疑问~

starshaneUID: 2616355

TOPIC: ISSUE153 - "Students should bring a certain skepticism to whatever they study. They should question what they are taught instead of accepting it passively."
WORDS: 473
TIME: 00:45:00
DATE: 2010/4/5 1:17:46


I partially agree with the speaker that students should keep a skeptical prospective when they are learning something, but not everything. It is important for students to unconditionally accept certain axioms and proven truths, yet if students accept whatever they are taught, that would be deleterious to effectively teaching and developing innovation and critical thinking skills.

先让步，有的公理啊啥的是不好质疑的
要质疑也要有坚实的知识基础后，例爱因斯坦
Admittedly, some knowledge are based on the arduous efforts of thousand of forerunners and have stood the test of time, thus no further doubt is necessary. Specifically, some fundamental laws and regulations in physics and biology, such as the conversation of energy, the circulation of human blood, have already be proven by previous experiment and practical experience a thousand times or more, there is no good for students to suspect those basic laws or they will be sucked into the myth of agnostics. Besides, students of little solid knowledge could hardly be wiser than all genius scientists or have the academic right to challenge them. Only when students are learned enough could they be able to effectively challenge those laws. For example, after years of careful analysis,  Einstein successfully reversed Newtown's laws of motions decades after his graduation from academic institution .  (最后这句真拧巴）

顺便对北美范文和其他一些文章的一个疑问——用哥白尼的例子做论据支撑怀疑精神作用，说哥白尼怀疑地心说，才有后来发现

问题是哥白尼是学生时期提出来的吗？
40岁时，哥白尼提出了日心说，并经过长年的观察和计算完成他的伟大著作《天体运行论》。

很多发现当然都是怀疑精神的结果，但大部分科学家还是在有一定积累后才能发现吧

首先，老师讲的不一定是对的
However, it is dangerous for students to abandon skepticism and learn whatever the lecturer preached. First of all, the lecturers' knowledge and intelligence is so limited that they might be giving wrong directions to students, or the teacher was simply not well prepared for a specific course. In that case it is natural for students to openly question what the teacher taught. Through that process the teacher can progress as well, and teaching and learning become mutually beneficial. Cases in which teachers made obvious mistakes abundant, and students have the responsibility to suspect such mistakes so as to expel wrong ideas.
例子上，感觉想不出比较“大”的，都是具体的小事例……


其次，怀疑精神有助于培养独立思考，critical thinking
Second, even if the teachers are always right, cramming dead knowledge into students would kill their ability of individual and critical thinking, eventually impair their innovation skills. While by keeping a skeptic prospective, students are more likely to pose questions and seek for answers by themselves, thus bring up new ideas and form individual opinion. For instance, in my lesson of International Relations the teacher always used some models to explain certain incidents, like the game theory in interpretation of the international arm race. Some of us were doubtful about the credibility of that explanation and developed their own theory. The teacher encouraged us to further examine our theory with experimental practice and form a thesis on it, and that’s what we did.


不被动学习，主动学习
As far as I am concerned, maybe it well behooves students to accept knowledge actively instead of passively, and teachers have the responsibility to help build constructive skepticism. By learning actively I mean every student should pose questions after thoroughly understanding the basic theories and carefully considering his or her questions, and teachers should be more than glad to help. Moreover, teachers should motivate students to help themselves or help each other through meaningful discussion. In this way we can avoid groundless skepticism and promote effective teaching and learning.

tangxuejianUID: 2790702

给你个关于学生质疑的例子，海森堡在学生时期怀疑当时已经颇为出名的薛定谔的波动理论，这个理论受到当时他的老师，量子力论教皇，波尔的支持。但他却致力于研究矩阵理论的研究，最好发现了量子力学中著名的测不准原理，为此他得了诺贝尔奖。 补充，了解物理时的人知道，波动论和矩阵论，是当时比较对立的两个理论，但最后证明他们是一体，只是从不同角度解释了量子物理。

呵呵，我用的这个，提刚跟你差不多，我用的例子可能都比较的学术，你参考吧

ella_dylUID: 2595060

TOPIC: ISSUE153 - "Students should bring a certain skepticism to whatever they study. They should question what they are taught instead of accepting it passively."
WORDS: 473
TIME: 00:45:00
DATE: 2010/4/5 1:17:46

I partially agree with the speaker that students should keep a skeptical prospective（没明白这个prospective放这里是什么意思？） when they are learning something, but not everything. It is important for students to unconditionally accept certain axioms and proven truths,（这里可以结束一句话，另起一句转折） yet if students accept whatever they are taught, that would be deleterious to effective teaching and developing innovation and critical thinking skills.
先让步，有的公理啊啥的是不好质疑的
要质疑也要有坚实的知识基础后，例爱因斯坦
Admittedly, some knowledge are（knowledge不可数） based on the arduous efforts of thousand(s) of forerunners and has stood the test of time, thus no further doubt is necessary. Specifically, some fundamental laws and regulations in physics and biology, such as the conversation of energy, the circulation of human blood, have already been proven by previous experiments and practical experience a thousand times or more.
There is no good for students to suspect those basic laws or they will be sucked into the myth of agnostics. Besides, students of little solid knowledge could hardly be wiser than all genius scientists or have the academic right to challenge them（前面提到了没必要去suspect，这里又提到去challenge，个人感觉有点矛盾）. Only when students are(去掉) learned enough could they be able to effectively challenge those laws. For example, after years of careful analysis,  Einstein successfully reversed Newtown's laws of motions decades after his graduation from academic institution .  (最后这句真拧巴）
顺便对北美范文和其他一些文章的一个疑问——用哥白尼的例子做论据支撑怀疑精神作用，说哥白尼怀疑地心说，才有后来发现
问题是哥白尼是学生时期提出来的吗？
40岁时，哥白尼提出了日心说，并经过长年的观察和计算完成他的伟大著作《天体运行论》。
很多发现当然都是怀疑精神的结果，但大部分科学家还是在有一定积累后才能发现吧
首先，老师讲的不一定是对的
这段是想说怀疑需要有basic knowledge作为基础，论据是1.没有必要2.没有basic knowledge就无法深入研究。所以本段TS句没能概括全段。个人觉得应该突出第二点，也就是basic knowledge的foundation作用。
至于例子，我觉得去纠结哥白尼学生时期并不重要。科学家的发现本身就是继承与创新的结合，所以放在什么论点都可以，关键看怎么论述。而这里爱因斯坦的例子举完后没有必要的总结性论述，显得不完整。
在这里，个人比较倾向于先举例子，最后落到学生上，从个体到一般。

However, it is dangerous for students to abandon skepticism and learn whatever the lecturer preached. First of all, the lecturers' knowledge and intelligence is so limited that they might be giving wrong directions to students, or the teacher was simply not well prepared for a specific course. In that case it is natural for students to openly question what the teacher taught. Through that process the teacher can progress as well, and teaching and learning become mutually beneficial. Cases in which teachers made obvious mistakes abundant, and students have the responsibility to suspect such mistakes so as to expel wrong ideas.
例子上，感觉想不出比较“大”的，都是具体的小事例……
例子无所谓大小，只要能自圆其说就好
其次，怀疑精神有助于培养独立思考，critical thinking
Second, even if the teachers are always right（这里感觉没必要让步，直接论述就好了）, cramming dead knowledge into students would kill their ability of individual and critical thinking, eventually impair their innovation skills. While by keeping a skeptic prospective, students are more likely to pose questions and seek for answers by themselves, thus bring up new ideas and form individual opinion. For instance, in my lesson of International Relations the teacher always used some models to explain certain incidents, like the game theory in interpretation of the international arm race. Some of us were doubtful about the credibility of that explanation and developed their own theory. The teacher encouraged us to further examine our theory with experimental practice and form a thesis on it, and that’s what we did.同样缺少总结
这段没有体现innovation skills
不被动学习，主动学习
As far as I am concerned, maybe it well behooves students to accept knowledge actively instead of passively, and teachers have the responsibility to help build constructive skepticism. By learning actively I mean every student should pose questions after thoroughly understanding the basic theories and carefully considering his or her questions, and teachers should be more than glad to help. Moreover, teachers should motivate students to help themselves or help each other through meaningful discussion. In this way we can avoid groundless skepticism and promote effective teaching and learning.
是没时间结尾了吗？感觉最后没有概括性的语句呢

就这个题目而言，LZ没有回应whatever这个点，事实上这可以成为B1论述的核心，skepticism是需要建立在一定条件上的，这个条件之一就是basic knowledge，这样论述会更切题也更充实。
至于后面支持质疑的论述，我觉得缺少一些层层推进的感觉。Critical thinking是一个更深更广的东西，并不限于学习层面。个人觉得应该把主动学习的点提到critical thinking前。事实上，我觉得B3的例子更适合论述主动学习，同时加入innovation skills的论述
总的来说，散的点都找到了，但行文还不够流畅，论述也显得单薄了些。同时希望重视每段TS句，段落应紧紧围绕TS句展开。语言上，不要刻意去写长句。有时候用连词连接的两个关系并不十分明显的句子还不如写成两个短句，后者表意可能更清楚。
以上，加油~~

starshaneUID: 2616355

3# ella_dyl

I partially agree with the speaker that students should keep a skeptical attitude when they are learning something, but not everything. It is important for students to unconditionally accept certain axioms and proven truths. However if students accept whatever they are taught, that would be deleterious to effectively teaching and developing innovation and critical thinking skills.


Admittedly, some knowledge is based on the arduous efforts of thousands of forerunners and has stood the test of time, thus no further doubt is necessary. Specifically, some fundamental laws and regulations in physics and biology, such as the conversation of energy, the circulation of human blood, have already be proven by previous experiment and practical experience a thousand times or more, there is no good for students to suspect those basic laws or they will be sucked into the myth of agnostics. Questions like “why 1 plus 1 equals 2” is more or less gratuitous. Besides, students of little solid knowledge could hardly be wiser than all genius scientists or be able to pose meaningful questions. All too often they have doubts only because they have no clue about the theories at all. Only when students are learned enough could they be able to effectively challenge those laws. For example, Einstein successfully reversed Newtown's laws of motions years after his graduation from academic institution, and had set new laws instead.
我觉得这里道理还是讲清楚了，再加总结无非又把前面的话再说一遍，或者从反面把话再说一遍……所以还是不说了……官方范文里也有很多举完例子就结束的段……



critical thinking 真的是很大一个框……考官应该看腻了吧……觉得那个例子还是够用了……就不赘述了……



不被动学习，主动学习
As far as I am concerned, maybe it well behooves students to accept knowledge actively instead of passively, and teachers have the responsibility to help build constructive skepticism. By learning actively I mean every student should be encouraged to ask for help if they do not get what they are taught, and pose suspects after thoroughly understanding the basic theories and carefully considering his or her questions. Moreover, teachers should motivate students to help themselves or help each other through meaningful discussion. In this way we can avoid groundless skepticism and promote effective teaching and learning.

In sum,   Students’ groundless skepticism about whatever they are taught is of little benefits, while deliberate and sound skepticism should be encouraged and taken seriously so as to promote the progress of knowledge. Moreover, students should be alert and skeptical about the teachers' obvious mistakes.


中文提纲再看一下：
首先，随意质疑一些基本公理无意义；质疑应该在理解之后
但是，老师有可能犯错，需要质疑；质疑也有助于独立思考批判思维
应该的做法：不懂就问，懂了好好想想再质疑，老师同学帮助

这样不知是否好些？？

非常感谢帮助！！！

xiao.xinUID: 2682051

我觉得接受这个词尤其指接受思想、公理之类的对应的单词应该是adopt,也就是采纳，用accept好像准确度不够

ella_dylUID: 2595060

4# starshane
我觉得这个提纲思路就清晰很多
其实我觉得B3提到的innovation skill的点很好，可以把质疑与创新联系起来。