issue8 举2012做例子行吧 没几天了，求狠拍！

starshaneUID：2616355

TOPIC: ISSUE8 - "It is often necessary, even desirable, for political leaders to withhold information from the public."
WORDS: 451
TIME: 00:45:00
DATE: 2010/4/7 23:56:36

As a student majored in political science, I completely understand the political leaders' attempt to withhold information from the public. In most cases, political leaders naturally conceal information because they want peace and obedience of the people. However, things usually go against their wishes, so they just try to release some information mostly when it is necessary, even desirable.

NECESSARY 老土啊老土
From a political viewpoint, political leaders want social stability and illusion of prosperity so as to stay in power for a long period. The less the majority know, the easier for political leaders to impose their influence and fewer voices of dissents could be heard. The absence of bad news creates an illusion of harmonious society, hence the regime is consolidated. Besides, it is justifiable for political leaders to withhold necessary information concerning national security, diplomatic strategy, military reserve, etc, otherwise the society will be disordered and the country cannot establish itself in the world. For example, a spokesman unconsciously spills that the government has to lay off some workers so as to carry out a gradual cooperation reform, then there will be forseeable fierce resistance and the reform may be crumbled. As for military information, certainly political leaders have to carefully protect it from domestic or foreign people or the nation is in a disadvantageous position if war breaks out.

DESIRABLE——2012……会不会比较汗
In some extreme cases, it is even desirable to withhold information from the public. In a real emergency, political leaders have to make decision in favor of the public as quick as possible, and if the public get involved, no decision could possibly be made because it is too difficult to satisfy the benefits of every individual. In the movie 2012, political leaders of each nation withhold the information of the doom's day and selected limited number of people to be saved from the catastrophe. At first sight one may contemn the leaders’ behavior as inhuman and brutal, but when we put ourselves in the shoes of those leaders, we might just choose the same way. Just imagine what chaos and desperation there would be when people are confronted with the end of the world. It is possible that not even one person on the planet could survive if people all surged to the arks and broke it. Yet it must be pointed out that the concealment of information is desirable only when the political leaders loyally value the interest of people and the society.




隐藏信息有害
However, I am also aware that it is highly dangerous for the government to withhold all information, for ignorance usually engenders groundless speculation and rumors, which have a grave negative impact on social stability--- it is human nature to imagine the worst when they are not informed. In 2008 Sichuan earthquake, the political leaders tried to withhold the actual number of casualties, while rumors of the casualty number abundant and caused serious panic. Later we know that the real casualties number, which was tragically high, was less than speculated. Furthermore, once the ugly truth is revealed, people would be so irritated and outrageous that the politicians who covered it lost all their credence and legitimacy, even be overthrown.


以人民国家利益为重（参考别人的提纲）
In sum, political leaders do need to withhold information under certain circumstances, while undue blocking of information can lead to disaster. Before making decisions, they might as well carefully analyze all the information at hand and judge whether to conceal the information serves the public interests better. After all, the ultimate purpose of politics and public administration is to protect and serve its citizen and the country.

sunflower_irisUID：2720580

As a student majored in political science, I completely understand the political leaders' attempt to withhold information from the public. In most cases, political leaders naturally conceal information because they want peace and obedience of the people. However, things usually go against their wishes, so they just try to release some information mostly when it is necessary, even desirable. （你的立论点有一个问题，就是把political leader和people放在了一个对立的层面上，显现的是统治阶级和被统治阶级的形态，是不是政府的目的就在于让人民服从或者像你在b1上说的那样创造一个illusion很值得探讨。从我的角度看，你对political leader持的是一种反对态度，可是通常我们希望的是政府是为了保障社会稳定与尽力促进社会繁荣的，不管有没有真正做到，这个目的性不应该是片面否定的，所以这样的说法就有一种无政府主义的基调而不容易被接受。像你结尾中所说的，以人民利益为重就与你的基本论点相左，既然政府是为了创造illusion他为什么要以人民利益为重？）

NECESSARY 老土啊老土
From a political viewpoint, political leaders want social stability and illusion（这个词在这里带有贬义，为什么leader就不能真的希望能创造繁荣，而是繁荣的假象呢？） of prosperity so as to stay in power for a long period. The less the majority know, the easier for political leaders to impose their influence and fewer voices of dissents could be heard. The absence of bad news creates an illusion of harmonious society, hence the regime is consolidated. Besides, it is justifiable for political leaders to withhold necessary information concerning national security, diplomatic strategy, military reserve, etc, otherwise the society will be disordered and the country cannot establish itself in the world. （我赞同这个观点，其实常识是每个国家都有secrets,而且有不同层次的机密，像你举的例子一样，但是这些机密的存在是为了保障国家安全与稳定，而不是创造illusion，对不对？）For example, a spokesman unconsciously spills that the government has to lay off some workers so as to carry out a gradual cooperation reform, then there will be forseeable fierce resistance and the reform may be crumbled. As for military information, certainly political leaders have to carefully protect it from domestic or foreign people or the nation is in a disadvantageous position if war breaks out.
DESIRABLE——2012……会不会比较汗
In some extreme cases, it is even desirable to withhold information from the public. In a real emergency, political leaders have to make decision in favor of the public as quick as possible, and if the public get involved, no decision could possibly be made because it is too difficult to satisfy the benefits of every individual. In the movie 2012, political leaders of each nation withhold the information of the doom's day and selected limited number of people to be saved from the catastrophe. At first sight one may contemn the leaders’ behavior as inhuman and brutal, but when we put ourselves in the shoes of those leaders, we might just choose the same way. Just imagine what chaos and desperation there would be when people are confronted with the end of the world. It is possible that not even one person on the planet could survive if people all surged to the arks and broke it. Yet it must be pointed out that the concealment of information is desirable only when the political leaders loyally value the interest of people and the society. （这里你搞错了题目的意思， desirable指的不是leader亟需隐藏信息，而是群众有很强烈的愿望了解这件事情。电影里的情节拿来做例子不是不可以，但问题在于它是有争议的，因为我们都没有遇到世界末日的情况，所以是否应该隐藏信息很难说。你就这个问题的讨论其实和B1是一样的，还是说一些信息的隐藏是为了避免混乱，有利于整体稳定。）

隐藏信息有害
However, I am also aware that it is highly dangerous for the government to withhold all information, for ignorance usually engenders groundless speculation and rumors, which have a grave negative impact on social stability--- it is human nature to imagine the worst when they are not informed. In 2008 Sichuan earthquake, the political leaders tried to withhold the actual number of casualties, while rumors of the casualty number abundant and caused serious panic. Later we know that the real casualties number, which was tragically high, was less than speculated. （这个例子有点shock）Furthermore, once the ugly truth is revealed, people would be so irritated and outrageous that the politicians who covered it lost all their credence and legitimacy, even be overthrown. （其实这一段和上面产生了一种矛盾，让人confuse到底是隐瞒还是不隐瞒好呢？是不是应该说清楚，在一些情况下，人们有权知道真相？）

以人民国家利益为重（参考别人的提纲）
In sum, political leaders do need to withhold information under certain circumstances, while undue blocking of information can lead to disaster. Before making decisions, they might as well carefully analyze all the information at hand and judge whether to conceal the information serves the public interests better. After all, the ultimate purpose of politics and public administration is to protect and serve its citizen and the country.（结尾你说是参考别人的提纲，看来是没错，因为结尾和上面的论述呈现脱节的状态）
整体来说，语言不错，论述的轮廓是有的，关键是逻辑不清晰。可能你自己是有逻辑的，但是写出来和你思考的并不同。
逻辑层次的显现在文章中应该严谨地表达出来，而不是甩几个论点就可以了。题目你没有仔细分析，比如desirable的问题。在论述中间主观色彩很强，不是说这个不好，但是在加强主观色彩的时候你没有注意将你的观点清晰地表达出来，漏洞就会很多。想来你也接受结尾的观点，就是是否隐藏信息取决于是否对人民有利，那么你行文的发展就不应该是以leader的需要为中心，而是要说为了国家稳定人民利益隐藏信息是必要的，即使在人民渴望知道这一信息的时候也应保守秘密，但如果是为了leader的个人需求，为了巩固自己的权力或者个人欲望而隐瞒信息，就是有害的。如果开始你就把leader放在一个对立的你不认同的位置上，不论他是否隐藏信息都是不正确的，比如他为了创造illusion而隐瞒信息，我们为什么要接受？为什么觉得这个是必要的？希望再仔细思考，意见供你参考。

starshaneUID：2616355

2# sunflower_iris

As a student majored in political science, I completely understand the political leaders' attempt to withhold information from the public. Political leaders have a natural tendency to conceal information because they want a peaceful and ordered society—at least seemingly so. In some cases, it is justifiably necessary or desirable for them to withhold information. Likewise, the people have a natural tendency to suspect politicians, so sometimes it is dangerous to hide information.


政治领导自然地想要隐藏信息因为他们希望社会和平稳定，至少看上去是。 有的情况下，隐藏信息是必要或可取的。 但同样人民自然地怀疑政客，所以隐藏信息有时很危险。

至于我为什么做这样的假设……因为西方的政治基本观就是假定政府是有权力就会滥用的，政客是恶的，人民应最大限度限制政府的权力
不是学这个的中国人大概难以理解吧……


NECESSARY
In the first place, why do political leaders ever want to withhold information? Because they want social stability and an illusion of prosperity so that they can stay in power for a long period. The less the majority know, the easier for political leaders to impose their influence and fewer voices of dissents could be heard. The absence of bad news creates an illusion of harmonious society, hence the regime is consolidated. Besides, it is justifiable for political leaders to withhold necessary information concerning national security, diplomatic strategy, military reserve, etc, otherwise the society will be disordered and the country cannot establish itself in the world. For example, a spokesman unconsciously spills that the government has to lay off some workers so as to carry out a gradual cooperation reform, then there will be foreseeable fierce resistance and the reform may be crumbled. As for military information, certainly political leaders have to carefully protect it from domestic or foreign people or the nation is in a disadvantageous position if war breaks out.
我想这一段造成误会可能是把重要的意义摆在了besides之后，besides之前的半段都是废话，但是很想写，因为觉得会得到rater认同……


DESIRABLE——2012……会不会比较汗
In some extreme cases, it is even desirable to withhold information from the public. In a real emergency, political leaders have to make decision in favor of the public as quickly as possible, and if the public get involved, no decision could possibly be made because it is too difficult to satisfy the benefits of every individual. In the movie “2012”, political leaders of each nation withhold the information of the doom's day and selected limited number of people to be saved from the catastrophe. At first sight one may contemn the leaders’ behavior as inhuman and brutal, but when we put ourselves in the shoes of those leaders, we might just choose the same way. Just imagine what chaos and desperation there would be when people are confronted with the end of the world. It is possible that not even one person on the planet could survive if people all surged to the arks and broke them.

你是不是对desirable有点误会……
题目翻译是“对于政治领导者来说，向人民大众隐瞒信息通常是必要的，甚至是有益的”

DESIRABLE的意思  合意的，理想的，可取的

it is desirable to exercise some social control over technology.

对技术科学进行适当的社会控制是可取的。

不是说人民想知道信息…………

我觉得2012虽然没有定论，但用来支持我的观点“有时在极端情况下隐藏信息是可取的”是可以的。

而且B1是说“必要”，就是不隐藏信息就不能活
B2是“可取”，隐藏信息或许更好
二者是有差别的…………不是你说的那样一个意思


B3讲不“可取”的情况
However, it must be pointed out that the concealment of information is necessary or desirable relies on the assumption that the political leaders loyally value the interest of people and the society, and such circumstance like in “2012” is really rare. In real world, when faced with cataclysm, political leaders better expose the actual situation so as to calm the people and encourage them to endure the disaster with solidarity, otherwise ignorance will engender groundless speculation and rumors, which have a grave negative impact on social stability--- it is human nature to imagine the worst when they are not informed. For example, in 2008 Sichuan earthquake, the local leaders tried to withhold the actual number of injured students because they were afraid to be held responsible for the bad construction of the teaching buildings, while rumors of the casualty number abundant and caused serious panic. Later we know that the real casualties number, which was tragically high, was less than speculated. Furthermore, once the ugly truth is revealed, people would be so irritated and outrageous that the politicians who covered it lost all their credence and legitimacy, even be overthrown. Many officials during SARS was deposed because they deliberately withhold information and failed to control the disease.


以人民国家利益为重（参考别人的提纲）
In sum, political leaders do need to withhold information under certain circumstances, while undue blocking of information can lead to disaster. Before making decisions, they might as well carefully analyze all the information at hand and judge whether to conceal the information serves the public interests better. After all, the ultimate purpose of politics and public administration is to protect and serve its citizen and the country.

这个逻辑链再梳理一下：想隐藏——有时必要隐藏——隐藏有害——结尾提出判断标准
你看是不是要好些？


之所以写成这样，是看了N篇习作，发现大多是讲信息的性质，人民权利，公开信息的好处啊，SARS例子
我在这里既然选择了从政客角度写，就cover不了那些了……


THANKS FOR YOUR ENLIGHTENMENT !!REALLY INSPIRING~~~

sunflower_irisUID：2720580

首先，要说抱歉，现在才回复，同时要抱歉的是我的确搞错了desirable的意思，所以导致对你b2修改的偏颇，你的提醒很重要，谢谢。上次的批改很匆促，导致一些问题没有说得清楚，这是我的错，接下来看文章我会具体说。

As a student majored in political science, I completely understand the political leaders' attempt to withhold information from the public. Political leaders have a natural tendency to conceal information because they want a peaceful and ordered society—at least seemingly so. In some cases, it is justifiably necessary or desirable for them to withhold information. Likewise, the people have a natural tendency to suspect politicians, so sometimes it is dangerous to hide information. 应当说我对你文章的观点没有太多异议，你试图找到一个新的角度，这点没错并且值得鼓励，我很赞同。如果上次的批改让你觉得我针对你的观点，抱歉让你误会了。我修改文章的原则是关注逻辑，观点没有正确与否，就看你是否能够自圆其说。虽然我不是学政治的，在过去一年里我做过关于国家政体的研究，为了写我的论文，看过不少西方政治政体历史哲学书籍，不知道是否有利于理解你的观点。Anyway,我并不打算就西方国家人民的认知与你做一个argue，这是另一个话题，除非你有兴趣探讨，呵呵。只是就这篇issue，ok？你试图将leader和人民放在对立的位置上，像你说的，政客是恶的。那么我要问，你是否认为政客是恶的？这是立论点，也是需要明确的地方。就我看到的而言，你对政客怀有一种矛盾的态度，一方面认同他们是恶的，一方面又认同他们的作为。这就导致了你论述中的矛盾和混乱。无论从谁的角度来探讨问题，你必须建立一个明确的立场，这个是issue写作的基本要求，即使是平衡论证，也有立场可言，简言之，你所认为了necessary, desirable是对谁而言的，对政客必要有益，还是对人民必要有益呢？如果，你的立场是政客，对他们来说，为了建立稳定和秩序，隐藏信息是必要的是有益的，但过度隐藏导致人民怀疑对他们又是有害的，这条逻辑链是清晰的，你也想这样展开，至少开头是这样的，对不对？但是在结尾，你又转向了另一个立场，以人民利益为立论点，为什么呢，因为你在body的论述当中两种立场互相转换，始终没有明确，leader隐藏信息到底是对谁有益。如果对双方都有益，那么你怎么能证明二者是对立的？即政客是恶的，是创造illusion的人，我在文章中找不出支撑这个观点的理由，如果你认为rater是西方人，所以会在情感上认同你的说法，那我只能说，这不太可能，因为issue是逻辑考试。 NECESSARY In the first place, why do political leaders ever want to withhold information? Because they want social stability and an illusion of prosperity so that they can stay in power for a long period.（这句话的修改很好，开始很清晰） The less the majority know, the easier for political leaders to impose their influence and fewer voices of dissents could be heard. The absence of bad news creates an illusion of harmonious society, hence the regime is consolidated. Besides, it is justifiable(问题在这里，你认同了leader的做法，认为这是对人民有益的，那么为了保障权利的掌握而创造illusion of prosperity也是对人民有益的？I don’t think so.如果你要保持支持政客的立场，就不可能褒贬同时使用，立场相互转换。或者你可以说，隐藏信息是必须的，因为你以上提出的原因，并且隐藏信息也表现出它的用处，因为会避免骚乱保障安全，这些都有利于统治，而不是有利于人民。) for political leaders to withhold necessary information concerning national security, diplomatic strategy, military reserve, etc, otherwise the society will be disordered and the country cannot establish itself in the world. For example, a spokesman unconsciously spills that the government has to lay off some workers so as to carry out a gradual cooperation reform, then there will be foreseeable fierce resistance and the reform may be crumbled. As for military information, certainly political leaders have to carefully protect it from domestic or foreign people or the nation is in a disadvantageous position if war breaks out. DESIRABLE——2012……会不会比较汗 In some extreme cases, it is even desirable to withhold information from the public. In a real emergency, political leaders have to make decision in favor of the public as quickly as possible, and if the public get involved, no decision could possibly be made because it is too difficult to satisfy the benefits of every individual. In the movie “2012”, political leaders of each nation withhold the information of the doom's day and selected limited number of people to be saved from the catastrophe. At first sight one may contemn the leaders’ behavior as inhuman and brutal, but when we put ourselves in the shoes of those leaders, we might just choose the same way. Just imagine what chaos and desperation there would be when people are confronted with the end of the world. It is possible that not even one person on the planet could survive if people all surged to the arks and broke them. （我理解你用这个例子的含义，并没有说这个例子不可以用，只是提出我的观点，毕竟是虚构，在说服力上有所欠缺，因为这些都是基于假设，假设是危险的。当然，你不这么认为，那么你可以坚持你的观点。你说的很明确，necessary是说了就不行，desirable是不说更有益，但是，在文章中你没有说出来这个观点。不论你自己的思维多么清晰，没有表达出来就是零。按照你的逻辑，在B1中，你应当说，如果不隐藏信息，统治就会被颠覆，所以非常必要，在这一段，应当说，可以不隐藏信息，但是隐藏信息更有利更有用。如果单单只是说引发混乱和分裂，那么和B1又有什么区别呢？我所看到的仍然是necessary） B3讲不“可取”的情况 However, it must be pointed out that the concealment of information is necessary or desirable relies on the assumption that the political leaders loyally value the interest of people and the society, （问题又来了，上面所说的是leader关心的是他们的政权能否稳固，那么，他们的loyally value of people又是从哪里来的呢？如果政客是恶的，他们怎么会有这种value呢，你只能坚持你的论点，像在开头提出的，人民怀疑，所以过分隐藏必然威胁政权稳定，所以对他们是有害的，是不是？）and such circumstance like in “2012” is really rare. In real world, when faced with cataclysm, political leaders better expose the actual situation so as to calm the people and encourage them to endure the disaster with solidarity, otherwise ignorance will engender groundless speculation and rumors, which have a grave negative impact on social stability--- it is human nature to imagine the worst when they are not informed. For example, in 2008 Sichuan earthquake, the local leaders tried to withhold the actual number of injured students because they were afraid to be held responsible for the bad construction of the teaching buildings, while rumors of the casualty number abundant and caused serious panic. Later we know that the real casualties number, which was tragically high, was less than speculated. Furthermore, once the ugly truth is revealed, people would be so irritated and outrageous that the politicians who covered it lost all their credence and legitimacy, even be overthrown. Many officials during SARS was deposed because they deliberately withhold information and failed to control the disease. 以人民国家利益为重（参考别人的提纲） In sum, political leaders do need to withhold information under certain circumstances, while undue blocking of information can lead to disaster. Before making decisions, they might as well carefully analyze all the information at hand and judge whether to conceal the information serves the public interests better. After all, the ultimate purpose of politics and public administration is to protect and serve its citizen and the country. 像我开头说的那样，矛盾的立场转换贯穿文章论述，从政客立场说明问题是一个不错的角度，但坚持立场和角度更重要，否则会让你的论述大打折扣，不论你的观点多么新颖。供你参考。

starshaneUID：2616355

4# sunflower_iris

首先对您高度认真负责的态度致以崇高的敬意！雷锋啊！

其次，对您的观点，我保守接纳…………

主要批评我 矛盾的立场转换，
这样所有写平衡观点的不都犯这个错误么？
我以前倒是全写一边倒的，临考了改得比较中和了

而且,AW考的不仅是逻辑，还有整套的价值观

我只能说明我我的水平有限，没能写得够清晰来说服你，非常遗憾……

我下礼拜就考了，咱们就不要在这篇上纠结了吧

再次感谢！！

sunflower_irisUID：2720580

抱歉又到现在才回复，下周要考了，要继续加油了，限时记得练哦。
我的观点你接受与否都不重要，重要的是我们有一点是相同的，就是希望对你的写作有所帮助。
有一点要提醒你，立场的转换和平衡论证中双方面的思考是两个概念，比如这个题目，从政客的立场而言，隐藏信息对他们有利也有害，像我在开头提出的逻辑链，从人民的立场而言，隐藏信息对他们有利也有害，这是平衡论证，或者要双方面说明对政客有利对人民有利，同时对政客有害对人民有害，也是平衡论证，那么立场就是人民和政客在某些方面并不是对立的而是对等的，他们同样关注建立稳定社会促进经济发展。无论是一边倒还是平衡论证都是有立场基准的，我并不是就观点跟你进行argue，而是希望你能明白文章中的逻辑漏洞，关键不在于观点是否能得到认可，而在于你如何将你的观点变得有说服力。
有很多人写的关于平衡论证的文章都很好，论坛的精华帖里面有，如果有时间就去看下，希望对你有所帮助。加油。