假如PRINCETON, MIT,Dartmouth也有法学院，兼扯Cornell LLM 的价格

edith_rUID: 3250179

我之前申美国的时候，相识的阿姨叫我申普林斯顿，说那儿的诉讼法特别好。

阿姨是检察官。

我想这也许是年代的问题吧。

weaneUID: 3390835

totooraw 发表于 2013-4-3 12:54
Princeton当年开个法学院不容易，很快就倒了。只能说这个法学院开的生不逢时。要是现在开，只要开个LLM ...

受教了。原来背后还有这么多故事。对于三个问题，试着答一答：
1. 首先找的人都是高位退下来的老人，难免观念僵化，而且体力不济，难以承担大破大立的重责；另外法学院独立于college使其无法充分利用大学的资源；
2. 也许他的精力更多用在怎么当选上面了；
3. 这个想不出来，照理说大萧条1929年才开始，1926年年景应该不错才对。难道钱都拿去炒股了？翻了一下wikipedia，说1924-1928年之间，Princeton用了2.3 million造了个教堂。难道是因为这个？

snovaUID: 113405

感觉是，想在P开法学院已经成curse，估计不会有后来人提议了。

totoorawUID: 3240632

weane 发表于 2013-4-3 13:52
受教了。原来背后还有这么多故事。对于三个问题，试着答一答：
1. 首先找的人都是高位退下来的老人，难 ...

Princeton 的Law Librarian有这个职务的），写了一篇文章，可以在ssrn下载，从第3页开始读。

http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1338360

totoorawUID: 3240632

weane 发表于 2013-4-3 13:52
受教了。原来背后还有这么多故事。对于三个问题，试着答一答：
1. 首先找的人都是高位退下来的老人，难 ...

1. 首先找的人都是高位退下来的老人，难免观念僵化，而且体力不济，难以承担大破大立的重责；另外法学院独立于college使其无法充分利用大学的资源；

这个问题答案，我觉得是：那时候开个法学院不容易，如果没有endowment,招生麻烦，学生少，收入太小，应为律师主要培训方法是apprenticeship，不是去上法学院。律师这样行业，当时还是个tradecraft

阿泰UID: 209473

totooraw 发表于 2013-4-4 04:50
1. 首先找的人都是高位退下来的老人，难免观念僵化，而且体力不济，难以承担大破大立的重责；另外法学院 ...

这么看下来65楼说的还挺在理:funk:

weaneUID: 3390835

totooraw 发表于 2013-4-4 04:50
1. 首先找的人都是高位退下来的老人，难免观念僵化，而且体力不济，难以承担大破大立的重责；另外法学院 ...

客观原因固然起作用，但1850年成立的PENN Law，1858年成立的Columbia Law不是照样至今屹立不倒。

LoveComeThroughUID: 3413349

询问了几个律师貌似业内已经对 康奈尔LLM超级无感了。。。。为啥还那么多人前赴后继。。。简直是神一样的录取率啊。。。还有神一样的学费。

阿泰UID: 209473

LoveComeThrough 发表于 2013-4-5 21:07
询问了几个律师貌似业内已经对 康奈尔LLM超级无感了。。。。为啥还那么多人前赴后继。。。简直是神一样的录 ...

这个学校历史上就对中国人有好感，中国人对它也就有好感，就跟日本的早稻田一个道理

totoorawUID: 3240632

weane 发表于 2013-4-5 20:58
客观原因固然起作用，但1850年成立的PENN Law，1858年成立的Columbia Law不是照样至今屹立不倒。

他们开始的时候有学校支持和endowment支持，学生很少的，为了确认这个，我找了一下材料，发现CLS的wiki entry不错：

Theodore Dwight and the Founding of the Law School
The Columbia College of Law School, as it was then officially called, was founded in 1858.[15] The first law school building was a Gothic Revival structure located on Columbia's Madison Avenue campus. Thereafter, the college became Columbia University and moved north to the neighborhood of Morningside Heights. As Columbia Law Professor Theodore Dwight observed, at its founding the demand for a formal course of study in law was still speculative:

It was considered at that time mainly as an experiment. No institution resembling a law school had ever existed in New York. Most of the leading lawyers had obtained their training in offices or by private reading, and were highly sceptical as to the possibility of securing competent legal knowledge by means of professional schools. Legal education was, however, at a very low ebb. The clerks in the law offices were left almost wholly to themselves. Frequently they were not even acquainted with the lawyers with whom, by a convenient fiction, they were supposed to be studying. Examinations for admission to the bar were held by committees appointed by the courts, who, where they inquired at all, sought for the most part to ascertain the knowledge of the candidate of petty details of practice. In general, the examinations were purely perfunctory. A politician of influence was not readily turned away. Few studied law as a science; many followed it as a trade or as a convenient ladder whereby to rise in a political career."[15]



The Gothic Revival Law Library on Columbia's Madison Avenue Campus
Indeed, Columbia Law School was one of the few law schools established in the United States before the Civil War. During the 18th and 19th centuries, most legal education took place in law offices, where young men, serving as apprentices or clerks,were set to copying documents and filling out legal forms under the supervision of an established attorney. For example, in New York John Jay, revolutionary founding father and first Chief Justice of the Supreme Court of the United States, read law with Benjamin Kissam, whose busy practice kept his clerks occupied in transcribing records, pleadings, and opinions. Jay was fortunate to have attentive supervision because the quality and time of learning the law varied greatly within the profession. Theodore Dwight, who had been head of the law department of Hamilton College in Clinton, New York, believed formal legal education, conducted in the classroom with regular lectures, was far superior to casual law office instruction.[16]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbia_Law_School

weaneUID: 3390835

私立学校的长久发展总归是靠endowment存续，关键是怎么说服有钱人投钱进来，这就需要有一个既有能力，又有精力的人来操盘。

totoorawUID: 3240632

weane 发表于 2013-4-6 14:29
私立学校的长久发展总归是靠endowment存续，关键是怎么说服有钱人投钱进来，这就需要有一个既有能力，又有精 ...

你这个思维就基本回答了2-3个问题，把关键点touched upon了。PRINCETON法学院在20世纪初没搞起来，但是PRESIDENT WILSON 和DEAN WEST把PRINCETON的Graduate School 搞了起来，很多钱和拉到的donation是搞这个了。下面是DEAN WEST信息，这个人是把PRINCETON搞出研究生教育的功臣。

http://etcweb.princeton.edu/CampusWWW/Companion/west_andrew.html

maorongjluUID: 3483036

赵这样同学 发表于 2013-3-31 10:05
我以前最先知道康奈尔，还是因为李-登-辉。

我是因为胡适

weaneUID: 3390835

maorongjlu 发表于 2014-1-5 09:40
我是因为胡适

胡适基本上是被Cornell赶走的，他的学术主要在哥大做的，在Cornell花太多时间在演讲上导致奖学金被停，但也触动他发奋求学，终在哥大短时间内拿到博士学位，所以Cornell除了那段罗曼史之外跟胡适没太大关系。

punbiUID: 3276483

我的dream school是princeton啊，可惜它沒有法學院=.=。
找時間去校園裡晃晃過過乾癮好了。