2016 fall master 小弱文商背景求选校定位

ulyssUID: 3672197

学校背景：

211文科非传统商科院校，金融专业，大三美帝交换一学期，学校一般

成绩：

GPA:90/100, 3.76/4.00 (WES大家懂的。。)
大三的成绩稍微好一点，之前的线代和宏观（老师给分略严）都是75+，概率论85+。。。T T

课程：

只有基本的数学课：高数两学期，线代，概率论和数理统计，统计学，计量两学期
会eviews、stata和选过但只会一点Matlab

GT：T113(24)  G V159/Q168

无paper，无科研，只写过计量水水的term paper。。 P.S.现在还有必要找老师做个助研吗？

获奖：校二等、三好之类的应该没什么用吧。。

推荐信：无牛推，交换的时候也是教finance方向的老师

其他：
1、因为个人原因只想申请美国，觉得自己不太适合学术道路，目前希望在那边找工作，所以强烈prefer大城市，有一些名校情结。
2、因为不太想研究生再学水水的本科金融课，所以没有打算申MSF。。
3、希望能学一些实用的东西对以后找工作有帮助，最好的是可以和本科学的finance结合起来的。上计量课的时候用stata对简单的数据方面还挺感兴趣（我知道这很基础。。），但非常intense的编程觉得自己不太适合。。
4、比较倾向的项目大方向有Applied Econ > Econ&Fin大类 > Econ; BA; marketing research（之前两份实习都和这方面有关）; stat（不知道自己这样的偏文背景是不是不适合，或者在coursera上补点数学、编程课 and/or 挖掘一些之前的跟数据方面有关的经历？）
5、仅仅是目前看到的：
ECON类项目有NYU MA Econ，JHU SAIS MIEF这类（是的都是水且贵的项目。。。），不是纯理论的经济，对数据分析方面有侧重，比较喜欢JHU的国际视角；
Duke Fin/Econ和data/stat结合的这类项目（不是Econ MA），觉得是不是数学背景不够可能性不大？（虽然基本的数学prerequisite达到了。。）；
还看到一些名校偏social方向的数据分析项目比如哥大QMSS这类的，挺心水选课自由的项目，不知道自己这个弱背景能不能申上。。。
6、去较水的项目自学编程和数据分析的内容 & social来找工作是否可行？（还是太年轻。。。）

不知道自己这样的背景能否申到这类项目，或者诸位大神觉得有其他更合适的选校或项目建议，或者对于我出国申请too young too naive的想法的建议都非常欢迎~DIY路漫漫，真诚地感谢各位小伙伴们的建议或者拍砖！！

cheesechanUID: 3505689

1. business / finance background + 211 only + wanna stay US for job = very difficult, way more difficult than you can imagine now.

2. the best solution is to go STEM. only eligible for a technical job will help you a bit in getting a working visa.

3. programming is very important. I mean scientific program like MATLAB, but not those button-clicking one like Excel, or just a few line of code. if you hate coding.....well, the world is so big.

4. A master in economics won't help. Economics is theoretical, and an applied economics master sounds better but often still not technical enough for a technical job. Same for MPA with econ & fina policy direction, or whatever int'l econ & fina or whatever the like.
There are tons of students with way better English, international view, and cultural sense than 99% of Chinese student, and with the correct passport / green card for them to consider. CV without the right nationality will go to rubbish bin directly unless they cannot find any suitable local candidate easily.

Therefore, go for something without enough local student. Go directly for a quantitative finance, or a statistics, or an business analytics master or similar. Forget about economics, it is seldom the optimal choice for your target.

5. If you think that you don't have enough mathematics for them, or you really hate coding, well......that may be true, and the implication behind is: to change your plan. Don't dream for a job in US that can leverage your finance bachelor at this moment maybe. (or switch to accounting?)

6. A "water" program from a famous school will still help you a bit towards the door for interview, but the key question is: what if the interview is technical?
Tons of students said that they will study things back by themselves, but reality is: 99% of people are lazy, and won't do much that's outside the syllabus/class/assignment.
Without lots of assignment, lots of practice, one won't master the skills at the end.

ulyssUID: 3672197

cheesechan 发表于 2015-11-17 00:18
1. business / finance background + 211 only + wanna stay US for job = very difficult, way more diffi ...

谢谢你的建议！

其实我最开始就很希望能去quantitative finance这类的项目，看了一些项目的课程设置、内容都非常感兴趣，无奈还是因为自己的文商科背景，数学背景太弱，觉得实在是没法儿和那些理工科的大神们竞争，所以无奈之下才转而考虑这类偏文一点的项目（虽然经济对数学要求也不小）

会计不是没有考虑过，但是觉得自己对这块儿的东西不是那么感兴趣。。

我自己也没有很强烈的欲望“一定”要留在那边，只是希望能在那边感受一下除学校之外其他的氛围，我所想的“留”是和毕业后就直接回来相对的，可能自己想法还是太幼稚吧，不过两年之后的事儿谁知道呢

沅UID: 3515035

我感觉楼主的数理背景申请stat的话比较难，而且线代＋概统你的分很低，所以你确定你可以handle stat吗？如果想申stat的话，还是可以试一试的。但是肯定申不上名校的。（即使是歌大统计也没有那么水。。）毕竟鱼和熊掌不可兼得，专业又好学校排名又好，明显你的背景达不到。所以我的建议就是如果你想申stat，留在美国工作的话，可以选一些排名靠后的学校，但是希望也不大，做好准备。
再就是会计的话，这个是最好留美了，也没那么强的数理背景要求，要是你不那么反感还是试试吧。
另外你说的6，自学编程啥的，我可以非常明确的告诉你，不可能。如果你从小就很喜欢编程的话，那是没问题的，因为真正的cs大神都不是学cs的。但是半路出家，想自学的，那是no way了。
你要是真想做stat／cs方向，有一个办法就是你申上该校的econ（比较好申嘛），然后读个双硕士，就酱。如果读不了双硕士的话，至少把人家专业的课都修了。

cheesechanUID: 3505689

ulyss 发表于 2015-11-17 10:37
谢谢你的建议！

其实我最开始就很希望能去quantitative finance这类的项目，看了一些项目的课程设置、 ...

1. To stay or not, is a decision before you start you application. The reason is, this is indeed the ultimate goal of education, and thus the choice of school and major depends on this very much.

2. If you are saying, "I want a job in US, but back home is also okay", you will end back in China; if "I must need a job in US, I will die without that", then you have the chances to find one there.
i.e. given that "我自己也没有很强烈的欲望“一定”要留在那边", you will be back China for working after graduation, well.....with at least 99% confident (of course my subject probability measure)

3. If you are not confident that you can handle / get admitted to MFE since the mathematics in quantitative finance, going to economics is not a solution if you want to stay US. It is the mathematics and the coding help you to get the working visa as an international, so if you avoid it, you avoid the STEM way of visa too. Business Analytics may have a slightly lower requirement than quantitative finance (at least they don't have those stochastic calculus and probability measure theory stuffs), so I guess you may consider it together with some statistics master. But again, coding is important. If the role don't require coding, why don't find a local instead?
Afterward, go accounting then; If you are not willing to take that, well........forgot about staying in US.

4. If plan to go back home after graduation, go to a school as famous as possible. Whatever management, economics, finance, or whatever don't matter. Just get a related master, not because of the content that can be applied in work (that's dreaming), but because you don't want your CV to be screen out because of that.

5. Of course, given the educational and career way of though in US, pre-experience master is an exceptional rather than a norm in top US school, especially in business or any soft discipline. Master degree are most for earning funding for the department through expensive tuition. US is not UK/Canada/EU, they don't need a master for doing PhD, and they value MBA way higher than other MS in soft business. There are not much point for a top student to do a business MS instead of working, and thus top business school won't offer that generally.
i.e. it is rather difficult to find a good MS in US that the school is well regarded back in China (in business field) as place are really limited. I don't see any point to limiting oneself to US only in this case. (P.S. I consider school that are well regarded back in APAC and worth investing for a MS in soft business area is less than 20 in US. At least I won't put JHU or Boston or USC or equivalent into the basket since the tuition in US is too expensive. The education there can be nice, and be a valuable experience, but it is a luxury that cannot be justified from an $$ point of view)

ulyssUID: 3672197

沅 发表于 2015-11-17 17:18
我感觉楼主的数理背景申请stat的话比较难，而且线代＋概统你的分很低，所以你确定你可以handle stat吗？如果 ...

非常感谢你的建议！

我也觉得自己的数学背景申stat确实是挺头疼的。。文商背景加上大一大二的时候自己没有那么努力。。但是之所以把线代和概统单列出来是因为当时商院里弄了一个“提高班”，学的内容和考试要求会相对难一些（学的数一的内容，虽然我知道这对理工大神们都是最基本的。。）不同的老师给分的标准也相应高一些，虽然AO可能并不会在意这些。但是我其他的数学课高数上下97、98，后面的统计学、计量上下都是93+，自己也选了matlab课(94)把线代和运筹的内容重新顺了一下，后面也找了和数据处理分析有关的实习（虽然还是比较基础的），不知道这些事儿是否能在AO那儿稍微挽回一点点数学弱的印象。。或者现在在网上重新过一些MIT之类的数学课程写在PS里面会不会有帮助？

我是在计量应用课上觉得自己对这些“轻量级”的数据分析和实证方面的内容挺感兴趣的，我挺喜欢stata（目前学到的只是这个）之类的“coding”的（大神们轻拍。。。），也挺喜欢自己钻研一些语句或者程序的用法，我可能更倾向于能够从“coding”中得到一些解读实际现象的启示或者意义，希望能在数据分析中间与自己专业相关的理论知识联系起来，cs那类非常intense、琢磨几十天甚至几个月才能出来的编程我也自知没有那个天分。我知道自己和stat的要求还有很大的差距，但还是我所理解的stat从一开始方向就是错的？（我真的了解不多，希望可以得到大神们的指点。。）

另外，我目前想的也是申一个比较好申的项目，然后尽量多选一些quant方面比较硬的课程，或者最好能如你说的修双硕士，只是不知道这样做的可行性和认可度有多少，找工作的时候是否会认可我在quant方面所做的这些努力？

关于哥大统计之类名校的统计项目，其实我挺好奇项目里是否有本科是商科背景的人，且这样的人大概占多少比例？如果是商科背景的人可以进到统计项目里，那么有哪些特质能够打动AO录取这样背景的人？希望有了解的大神们能分享一下信息，谢谢！

cheesechanUID: 3505689

ulyss 发表于 2015-11-17 23:36
非常感谢你的建议！

我也觉得自己的数学背景申stat确实是挺头疼的。。文商背景加上大一大二的时候自 ...

1. not every statistics master is easy or difficult.
Some statistics master are more welcome to thsoe without a stat background (e.g. Columbia), and generally they will teach less in depth in the master, at least in the core part.
while some others are more restricted for stat BS only, with will go directly deep into more advanced topic.

One should be able to identify the difference from looking into the course syllabus, or the admission requirement.


2. 申一个比较好申的项目，然后尽量多选一些quant方面比较硬的课程，或者最好能如你说的修双硕士 <--- 可行性 really depends on which school and which program you are in (if the school premit it, or if you wallet is big enough to pay the tuition)
认可度 depends on the title a bit (the title of your degree have to be related enough to catch the eye of HR, and for govt while on H1B). in this sense, it will be helpful if the master is in the STEM list (don't ask me what/where it is, google).
companies will likely to conduct their own interview to test the technical skills of the applicant for a technical role themselves anyway. Worry less about the title of the degree, but more on the skill set you have yourself.
Don't dream / plan that you can make it by self-study. Self-study just work as a plus (like I am a stat student and missed the Multivariate stat course and self study it for interviews), but self-study rarely work to build up the system of knowledge of a new discipline.


3. 如果是商科背景的人可以进到统计项目里，那么有哪些特质能够打动AO录取这样背景的人？ <--- Their wallet.
The key problem is not 打动AO.........is to 打动HR (umum...nono, not HR, but the recuirting team leader instead). of course this is a bit early to say this, but you will find that the former is a piece of cake when compared with the later one.

4. every good grad quantitative course studied, which is graded with accreditation, will help. If not graded / accredited, nope.

ulyssUID: 3672197

cheesechan 发表于 2015-11-17 19:24
1. To stay or not, is a decision before you start you application. The reason is, this is indeed ...

谢谢你，我很喜欢"I must need a job in US, I will die without that"这句。深知自己很多时候就是欠缺了那股做到极致的劲儿，可偏偏就常被性格里这种“顺其自然”的惰性所左右(I know it's a joke...)

我知道你一直在点醒我 "STEM or back China"，周围的朋友也在告诉我这个现实。但在选校阶段，我还是抱着一丝丝“侥幸”，希望能够尽最大所能考虑更多可能性

不知道选择Econ或类似项目，在选课上尽可能选quant的课程是否可行？找工作时是否会认可我quant的能力即使我的专业并不是？

我也看到一些学校偏social方向的数据分析项目也属于STEM（UChicago，QMSS? 目前还没有做太多研究）这些项目从找工作的角度是否值得投资呢？是不是选了这个方向之后的就业面会窄很多（社会科学类而非商业类？），不知道你对经济学之外的这些项目是否有些了解，无论如何，我都很感谢你的回答

cheesechanUID: 3505689

ulyss 发表于 2015-11-18 00:45
在选校阶段，我还是抱着一丝丝“侥幸”，希望能够尽最大所能考虑更多可能性

A1. of course you always reserve the right of dreaming about that, just like you reserve the right of throwing your own $$ & time into the sea.

don't dream about various choice of seeking as an international student....you don't have much.

ulyss 发表于 2015-11-18 00:45
不知道选择Econ或类似项目，在选课上尽可能选quant的课程是否可行？找工作时是否会认可我quant的能力即使我的专业并不是

A2. you may, but what play yourself? if you have a statistics / CS bachelor, and you go for a econ master now, things are still not too bad. but for your case.......do you think you have the room for playing?

and indeed, this is not the optimal choice obviously. not to mention you have to do extra stuffs to make other to believe so (why they don't just take someone / grant visa to someone with a Stat / CS master?), but also paying extra tuition and time to take those course back. (don't forget, time is limited, one have to sleep and one only have 24 hours per day)
if you are telling me that you really like economics......um, I will suggest you either do a double master, or take a couple of economics course as elective during a stat master (for example).
if you really like the title of economics on your degree, well........refer to A1.
Of course if there are something called quantitative economics (or econometrics indeed) , that may somehow solve ur concer,  but the key point is that:  u need to have enough math to fight for the admission first.  (e. G. Duke econ and stat master)

沅UID: 3515035

ulyss 发表于 2015-11-17 23:36
非常感谢你的建议！

我也觉得自己的数学背景申stat确实是挺头疼的。。文商背景加上大一大二的时候自 ...

好吧你的描述让我觉得我们是不是本科来自一所学校。。。
是否能handle 统计还是看自己的level啦，所以正确衡量你自己的水平就可以了。在网上选课如果没有certificate的话等于没用。如果有certificate的话还有那么一点点的作用。

事情是酱紫的，HR为啥要放着学CS STAT的人不录，而录你这个学econ的呢？（虽然你修了一些quant的课程）。毕竟CS STAT的学位是一个很强的signal。
可行性确实是看学校，我了解到的是georgia univ是可以修双硕士的，它家貌似没有econ只有农经的项目，一般会给奖学金的。然后ucsb也是可以的，然而今年不开econ了，不知道明年会不会开。如果不开econ的话你可以直接试一下stat，这个项目的录取率在35%左右，所以还是有一定的希望。其他学校肯定也是有可以的，但是我就不了解了。

沅UID: 3515035

ulyss 发表于 2015-11-18 00:45
谢谢你，我很喜欢"I must need a job in US, I will die without that"这句。深知自己很多时候就是欠缺了 ...

另外像是ucsb的stat是给TA做的，所以budget不会太大。哥大的统计第二年也都可以找到grader／TA做。

cheesechanUID: 3505689

沅 发表于 2015-11-18 01:33
好吧你的描述让我觉得我们是不是本科来自一所学校。。。
是否能handle 统计还是看自己的level啦，所以正 ...

well.......a double master is always feasible as long as the school have that, and the department take you.
at the worst case that there are no cooperation at all, one just do two masters.........or even do two master at two different school.

at the end, it is the problem about $$ and time.


P.S. given I did my master study in European continental, I am more than sensitive to the ROI on tuition (well...indeed reserve order).
Imagine that what one will consider if one did a master without any significant tuition, and paying the living expense on part time since the 2nd semester.........you will consider a double master as a double waste of time and money lol

ulyssUID: 3672197

沅 发表于 2015-11-18 01:35
另外像是ucsb的stat是给TA做的，所以budget不会太大。哥大的统计第二年也都可以找到grader／TA做。

谢谢你的建议！

看来这个时候能够稍微弥补一点的数学背景的办法还是网课certificate了，不知道最终有没有作用，我现在还是好好学学，补补基础还是好的。

其实最近在论坛里潜水，都觉得有点点动摇当初想要读master的想法了（好吧都走上这条道了。。）其实还是想趁年轻的时候多充实一下自己，加上本科学的比较水（主要是自己水。。），所以想给自己多点时间学一点扎实的东西。

现在觉得自己好自私，因为自己水水而过的本科让家里负担这么多。。

ulyssUID: 3672197

cheesechan 发表于 2015-11-18 01:53
well.......a double master is always feasible as long as the school have that, and the departmen ...

谢谢你的耐心和大直话！

我会好好考虑项目的ROI。另外能否请问一下欧洲的项目从在当地找工作或者之后回国的角度上（不是为了申PHD）是否值得去投资呢？并且欧洲目前的生活状态和发展势头是否适合在未来5年或者更长的时间内学习和生活呢？（可能我站立的角度是感受这个国家的文化和人的精神状态方面，虽然这些形而上的东西对我来说并没有什么用。。）谢谢！

cheesechanUID: 3505689

ulyss 发表于 2015-11-18 23:15
谢谢你的耐心和大直话！

我会好好考虑项目的ROI。另外能否请问一下欧洲的项目从在当地找工作或者之后回 ...

Europe + STEM major:
You don't have a related major, forget about it (it is not enough even you have some of the related course)

Europe + business major:
depends on country, but make sure you are ready to take up a new language first.