issue127 G-89-互助社-8.7日同主题作文！大胆的想像，非常思路！欢迎评价！

polymathUID??179557

一篇呕心沥血之作，完成加修改历时3个小时，语法和拼写已经基本检查，请大家提提意见！唯一让偶感到不爽的是竟然写了809字，真是:L本来倒数第2段还想举个例子的！但只有收手了！不过全文用词都非常新鲜，观点更是异常的不同！呵呵！算是我的代表作吧！:D静听分解！:)

127. "Facts are stubborn things. They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions." 事实是是固执的（不容改变的）。它不会因为我们的愿望、倾向或激情而改变。（习作13，2005/08/6）☆☆☆
Syllabus:
1.要回答这个问题，我们先要明确事实的定义。什么是事实？
2. to begin with首先，如果事实等于真理的话，我认为它是不能被改变的东西，因为真理是打不倒的）。比如说正义战胜邪恶，人会生老病死等等。
3. on the other hand其次，如果事实不等于真理的，仅仅指somthing that has actual existence.我认为它是可以改变的而且每天都在变化。这里面有一下几个明显的原因：比如说：
4. Additionally,由于事实包含的内容不同，或则说属性不同，我们在生活中对待事实的态度和行为也应该有所变化。
5. 总结。

Do facts cannot be recalled by our wishes or inclinations,as the speaker asserts?To answer such a controversial issue, we should get a good grasp of the meaning of facts.That is to say, what are facts?There are two different interpretation: the quality of being actual or something that has actual existence.As far as I am concerned, with regard to the former explanation, facts do equal to truths and cannot be altered; while it referring to the latter, facts are indeed standing for objective existence which varying from time to time.

To begin with, if facts are defined as objective truths, I contend that no means of wishes or even passions can actually affect them. As an old saying goes, Truth, once crushed, will rise again.There are a lot of subborn facts which control the world operate in a proper way that cannot be tortured by our subjective wishes.For instance, Justice must defeat evil and all men are destined to death. Anyone can imagine a spectacle that if these things can be varied by people,what the world will eventually be?Of course, it must fall into chaos or turmoil. Yet, due to varies of reasons, the process of congition that human gain facts is a complex and winding course. To illustrate this view, one need look no further than the cognition of the essential property of light. Nowadays so long as a person learned middle-school physics, he or she would know that light is just an electromagnetic wave and it contains two necessary properties: One is “wave property”,the other was “quantum property”.But during the last quarter-century, there was a long dispute about two contrary theories and the main reason was like this: one group of scientists insisted on wave theory while another group of scientists preferred quantum theory. In fact, either of them was right alone for the two theories were all inadequate to interprete the phenomena at a go. However, Fact is honest, truth is sure; Truth is strong and must endure. As the time flies by,human finally give a just ruling for this physical fact, that is “string theory”.

On the other hand, if facts are regarded as something that has actual existence, I fundamentally agree that they can be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions. In fact, this kind of facts almost change around us every day. There are three compelling reasons:First, as the dialetical law of the development of things holds, motion is the mode of the existance of matter. All things are in a state of motion, absolute motionless is absent.Second, a lot of passed facts in the history can be explained vaibliy according to  different angles and backgrounds of reporters, because sometimes people choose the facts which serve to achieve their certain goals, and meanwhile veil the opposite facts. Japanese teaching materials’ amending action serves a cogent illustration. As is known to us all, Japan launched acts of aggression into the other Asian countries during the World War Two. But in order to obliterate its heious crimes and barbarous acts, Japan’Ministry of Education amends its national teaching courses again and again, and Japanese government have never apologized to these Asian countries that fell victims. Therefore many Japanese children are mislead to believe that their country have not done any aggressions. Third, Long time exposuring to the facts or having no effective resourses to other information, we are apt to draw the wrong directions. Look at the Iraqi war, by the advanced media web and the powerful US voices, many people are convinced that in Iraq there are weapons of destruction, nuclear weapons and bio-chemical weapons and Iraqi people are auppressed by the Hussein government. But no evidence shows this is the fact after the war. Compared to the situation nowadays, people may still miss the days which has gone for ever. What the really thought of the Iraqi people? We cannot rely on the facts broardcasting by the US media, or Iraqi media, we should hear all the voices from all the countries.

As a result, people should take different measures and attitudes when facing these two types of facts. With respect to the essence that belonging to truth, as change lays not her hand upon truth, so a best choice is to follow it, otherwise you will receive its cruel retaliation. In contrast, to encounter facts of something that has actual existence, we can give the rein to our imagination and creative power and make them satisfy our own wishes or inclinations.In short, Man proposes; God disposes.

To sum up, we must get a full appreciation of the underground implication of facts before making a conclusion. And in view of distinct facts, people should give flexible answers. Only do we realize this key and behave wisely, can human change the world into a heaven of human.(809)

[ Last edited by polymath on 2005-8-7 at 15:30 ]

keeyangUID??2120118

我来学习一下，呵呵！
过会儿送上学习体会

keeyangUID??2120118

127. "Facts are stubborn things. They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions." 事实是是固执的（不容改变的）。它不会因为我们的愿望、倾向或激情而改变。（习作13，2005/08/6）☆☆☆
Syllabus:
1.要回答这个问题，我们先要明确事实的定义。什么是事实？
2. to begin with首先，如果事实等于真理的话，我认为它是不能被改变的东西，因为真理是打不倒的）。比如说正义战胜邪恶，人会生老病死等等。
3. on the other hand其次，如果事实不等于真理的，仅仅指somthing that has actual existence.我认为它是可以改变的而且每天都在变化。这里面有一下几个明显的原因：比如说：
4. Additionally,由于事实包含的内容不同，或则说属性不同，我们在生活中对待事实的态度和行为也应该有所变化。
5. 总结。

Do facts cannot be recalled 这个词与原文 alter 的意思不同吧 by our wishes or inclinations,as the speaker asserts?To answer such a controversial issue, we should get a good grasp of the meaning of facts.That is to say, what are facts?There are two different interpretation: the quality of being actual or something that has actual existence.As far as I am concerned, with regard to the former explanation, facts do equal to truths and cannot be altered; while it referring to the latter, facts are indeed standing for objective existence which varying from time to time.

To begin with, if facts are defined as objective truths, I contend that no means of wishes or even passions can actually affect them. As an old saying goes, Truth, once crushed, will rise again.There are a lot of subborn facts which control the world operate in a proper way that cannot be tortured by our subjective wishes.For instance, Justice must defeat evil这不算什么真理吧，好像仅仅是人们为了不至于精神崩溃而怀有的一种美丽信念，消极了一点，仅供参考 and all men are destined to death. Anyone can imagine a spectacle that if these things can be varied by people,what the world will eventually be?Of course, it must fall into chaos or turmoil. Yet, due to varies of reasons, the process of congition that human gain facts is a complex and winding course. To illustrate this view, one need look no further than the cognition of the essential property of light. Nowadays so long as a person learned middle-school physics, he or she would know that light is just an electromagnetic wave and it contains two necessaryinherent OK? properties: One is “wave property”,the other was “quantum property”.But during the last quarter-century, there was a long dispute about two contrary theories and the main reason was like this: one group of scientists insisted on wave theory while another group of scientists preferred quantum theory. In fact, either of them was right alone for the two theories were all inadequate to interprete the phenomena at a go. However, Fact is honest, truth is sure; Truth is strong and must endure. As the time flies by,human finally give a just ruling for this physical fact, that is “string theory”. 例子本身不错，只是且精炼，显得笔墨不均；另外，在后面略加分析，照应一下段首句效果更好

On the other hand, if facts are regarded as something that has actual existence, I fundamentally agree that they can be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions. In fact, this kind of facts almost change around us every day. There are three compelling reasons:First, as the dialetical law of the development of things holds, motion is the mode of the existance of matter. All things are in a state of motion, absolute motionless is absent.我是不是可以这样反驳你：是的，物质的改变是永恒的，但是他们的改变是根据客观规律，而不是由于我们的愿望。云变成雨点下来，是由于水蒸汽饱和了，不得不下来，而不是我们求雨（我们的愿望）求下来的Second, a lot of passed facts in the history can be explained vaibliy according to  different angles and backgrounds of reporters, because sometimes people choose the facts which serve to achieve their certain goals, and meanwhile veil the opposite facts. Japanese teaching materials’ amending action serves a cogent illustration. As is known to us all, Japan launched acts of aggression into the other Asian countries during the World War Two. But in order to obliterate its heious crimes and barbarous acts, Japan’Ministry of Education amends its national teaching courses again and again, and Japanese government have never apologized to these Asian countries that fell victims. Therefore many Japanese children are mislead to believe that their country have not done any aggressions.我感觉这个例子没有说服力， 相反恰恰可以说明事实是不可改变的，绝不会因为日本XX改了教科书，历史事实就可以被改变了， that is to say, the actual existence of their agression into other Asia countried can not be changed, even they amend their textbooks because they want their people to bilieve aother construed history. What has been changed is their recognization of the fact, but not fact itself, for according to your defination here, fact is something of the actual existenceexposuring exposure / exposingto the facts or having no effective resourses to other information, we are apt to draw the wrong directions. Look at the Iraqi war, by the advanced media web and the powerful US voices, many people are convinced that in Iraq there are weapons of destruction, nuclear weapons and bio-chemical weapons and Iraqi people are auppressed by the Hussein government. But no evidence shows this is the fact after the war. Compared to the situation nowadays, people may still miss the days which has gone for ever. What the really thought of the Iraqi people? We cannot rely on the facts broardcasting by the US media, or Iraqi media, we should hear all the voices from all the countries.

不知是我的思路乱了还是怎的，总感觉后面的说明和事例在反对这一段的TS.我的理解是这样的：
你的第一个论证：如果引入辩证法，强调人的主观能动性可以反作用于物质还可以支持 they can be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions
而第二第三个论证，则是在偷换概念，即 something that has the actual existence Vs. the recognization of the actual existence, here with resoect to your defination at the beginning, something that has the actual existence=fact

As a result, people should take different measures and attitudes when facing these two types of facts. With respect to the essence that belonging to truth, as change lays not her hand upon truth, so a best choice is to follow it, otherwise you will receive its cruel retaliation. In contrast, to encounter facts of something that has actual existence, we can give the rein to our imagination and creative power and make them satisfy our own wishes or inclinations.In short, Man proposes; God disposes.莫非是 谋事在人，成事在天。假如是这样的话，仅仅在说明 God controls everything

To sum up, we must get a full appreciation of the undergroundunderground用词不合适，一个意思是地下的，一个意思是秘密的，没有你要表达的 内在的 含义 implication of facts before making a conclusion. And in view of distinct facts, people should give flexible answers. Only do we realize this key and behave wisely, can human change the world into a heaven of human.(809)

总评：文章语言很到位。这种来深刻分析facts的含义，引出进一步分析的想法不错；第一个意思的让人清楚，需要改进之处上面已经讲了；第二个意思我不太懂，可能是用读argument的眼光来看了，提了一些批评，不知对不对。欢迎跟贴讨论，以开我之茅塞。

polymathUID??179557

呵呵！谢谢keeyang的修改！批的真好！当时只是觉得这个题目很抽象，有很多角度来写！想了半天竟然写成这样!::L

recalled 这个词与原文 alter 的意思不同吧

recall是用错了！当时想着换个词，就拈来了！真是弄巧成拙啊！还是用change吧！:L
[/quote]Truth, once crushed, will rise again。Justice must defeat evil这不算什么真理吧，好像仅仅是人们为了不至于精神崩溃而怀有的一种美丽信念，消极了一点，仅供参考。[/quote]
前面一句是我引用的谚语，应该是真理吧！后面的“正义必定战胜邪恶”，虽然说牵强了点，但是已经为无数事实证明了的！也可以算吧！呵呵！

necessary inherent OK?

我当时就想表达2个根本属性，可惜没想到inherent，就用必要代替了！恩！修改的很好！:p

例子本身不错，只是且精炼，显得笔墨不均；另外，在后面略加分析，照应一下段首句效果更好?

你的意见我有这么想过，本来准备写完了再补充些小节分析，但是篇幅已经不容许了！关于例子，你是说太精炼，是不够详细的意思吗？欧阳认为例子说清楚就行，不要占太大的篇幅。毕竟issue主要考察的是我们的分析能力和驾驭语言的能力。

我是不是可以这样反驳你：是的，物质的改变是永恒的，但是他们的改变是根据客观规律，而不是由于我们的愿望。云变成雨点下来，是由于水蒸汽饱和了，不得不下来，而不是我们求雨（我们的愿望）求下来的
我感觉这个例子没有说服力， 相反恰恰可以说明事实是不可改变的，绝不会因为日本XX改了教科书，历史事实就可以被改变了， that is to say, the actual existence of their agression into other Asia countried can not be changed, even they amend their textbooks because they want their people to bilieve aother construed history. What has been changed is their recognization of the fact, but not fact itself, for according to your defination here, fact is something of the actual existenceexposuring exposure / exposing

批的很好呀！居然被你像Argument一样来批，face都没有啦！:O写的时候知识考虑到变化，忘记了要和人的主观愿望结合起来。不过，我的理解是这个题目应该分成2部分来理解，首先是Facts are stubborn things，其次才是They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions.。偶的唯物辩证法至少说明了前者可能是不正确的。但是后一个例子，可能是表达没有组织好，但是我强调了在日本孩子的心目中事实的确改变了，至少日本教育省这么认为的。你说呢？还有就是开头加了一些自己主观的感情色彩，反而让例子失去了原来的说服力。真是不应该啊！像这些句子看来都要拿掉：“As is known to us all, Japan launched acts of aggression into the other Asian countries during the World War Two. ”以及“美国攻击伊拉克”，这个例子前几天还听网友说最好不要写，是美国人的痛！可偶却搬来了！这一段要重写，我决定了！例子也要换换了。你能推荐几个典型的例子吗？

你的第一个论证：如果引入辩证法，强调人的主观能动性可以反作用于物质还可以支持 they can be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions而第二第三个论证，则是在偷换概念，即 something that has the actual existence Vs. the recognization of the actual existence, here with resoect to your defination at the beginning, something that has the actual existence=fact

第一点你分析的很不错，如果更具说服力，最好加上人的主观能动性可以改造世界这一条。谢谢提醒思路！:)
关于第2点，可能又要陷入facts的定义了，我第2个定义是客观存在的东西就是事实。物质是客观实在，所以是事实，但是物质是运动的，不是题目说的“stubborn things”。所以可以反对题目的结论。关于对日本修改教科书的例子，我觉得这件事实的确被日本人改变了，至少他们已经在书本上改变了！。还有美国入侵伊拉克的例子，美国借口伊拉克有恐怖武器，所以攻打。实际上战后发现伊拉克却没有这个东西。但是在战争结束前事实的确被美国的主观愿望改变了，至少美国和一些主张攻打伊拉克的政府相信反面的所谓‘事实“。经过你的分析，偶觉得上面的解释好牵强！为了中心一致，还是找别的例子代替好了！:(

莫非是 谋事在人，成事在天。假如是这样的话，仅仅在说明 God controls everything

这个谚语除了表示你说的意思外，难道不能说明人们可以改变眼前的事实吗？即使是God来决定最后的样子，但的确已经变化了呀！而且目前的事实是朝着由于人们的主观愿望而改变的呀！[/colo]

underground用词不合适，一个意思是地下的，一个意思是秘密的，没有你要表达的 内在的 含义

呵呵！你好较真啊！偶表达是潜在的，隐含的含义，背后的含义。underground,你说有地下的，秘密的意思，难道不能引申出潜在的意思吗？地下的，就是不公开的，隐含的，英语中的近义词很多都可以相通啊！

总后谢谢你的修改！提出了很多建设性，且启发性的意见，让我扩宽了思路。评价也很中肯啊！偶要好好修改这篇文章了！:)欢迎继续讨论！

[ Last edited by polymath on 2005-8-7 at 20:04 ]

jason0926UID??200697

楼主太强,这么"变态"的文章都能写出来,佩佩服服啊

vickycy6UID??2107893

我看了一下, 我觉得在on the other hand那一段中,日本和美国的例子最好不要举!
尤其是美国与伊拉克的事情,可能会引起争议的
忠柬...
不过 语言好流畅啊!要好好学习!

[ Last edited by vickycy6 on 2005-8-7 at 20:19 ]

keeyangUID??2120118

[quote]
例子本身不错，只是且精炼，显得笔墨不均；另外，在后面略加分析，照应一下段首句效果更好?

你的意见我有这么想过，本来准备写完了再补充些小节分析，但是篇幅已经不容许了！关于例子，你是说太精炼，是不够详细的意思吗？欧阳认为例子说清楚就行，不要占太大的篇幅。毕竟issue主要考察的是我们的分析能力和驾驭语言的能力。
[/quote]

我是说这个例子“欠精炼“，打错字了，没检查出来

不过，我的理解是这个题目应该分成2部分来理解，首先是Facts are stubborn things，其次才是They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions.。偶的唯物辩证法至少说明了前者可能是不正确的。

对对，辩证法是可以用来批他第一个论述的

但是我强调了在日本孩子的心目中事实的确改变了，至少日本教育省这么认为的。

对不起，还是不能同意你的这个观点。
因为“日本孩子的心目中事实“=他们对事实的认识<>事实。
另外，上楼说的有道理，别伤害美国人感情；此外，还不知道他们究竟怎样看待日本的做法，所以这样的例子最好也不要用了。

[quote]
莫非是 谋事在人，成事在天。假如是这样的话，仅仅在说明 God controls everything  

这个谚语除了表示你说的意思外，难道不能说明人们可以改变眼前的事实吗？即使是God来决定最后的样子，但的确已经变化了呀！而且目前的事实是朝着由于人们的主观愿望而改变的呀！
[/quote]

我想的是有点绝对了。BTW: 那个意思你用英语表达好漂亮！:)

hsbibiUID??2610519

很好，我正在写这篇的提纲，学习了~

hsbibiUID??2610519

the process of congition that human gain facts is a complex and winding course.

这个和题目关系不大吧，感觉没必要

shangmingzy89UID??2925852

观点不错哦！ 感觉很有启发啊。谢谢楼主啦