MBA vs. MPA/MPP (Public Admin/Policy)[转贴]

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MBA vs. MPA/MPP (Public Admin/Policy) Subscribe   
  From:  ICIPUTRA  Nov-14 12:49 am  
To:  ALL  (1 of 29)  

  37624.1  

I noticed that MPA/MPP in many ways are pretty similar to MBA, except the different emphasis, off course.  Both programs develop similar technical skills (especially in economics & finance), organizational/managerial skills, and many times graduates from either program may end up getting the same type of job.  Further, some MBAs choose to work in public fields, while some of their MPA/MPP counterparts opt to work in private institutions.   I know that many MPA/MPP work for MC or financial service companies.   Then, what makes the difference between the two programs?

Does anybody have an opinion on how an MBA compares to an MPA/MPP?

What are the career opportunities for MPA/MPP, anyway?

Thanks,

  
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  From:  MICINEX  Nov-14 5:06 am  
To:  ICIPUTRA  (2 of 29)  

  37624.2 in reply to 37624.1  

You're correct in that an MPA and MPP are highly similar, but there are some very subtle differences; an MPP focuses more on policy engineering and legislation with respect to administration, whereas the MPA concentrates more on applied methods with respect to management and operations in the public and non-profit sectors (Although in many cases, MPPs will take operations courses and MPAs will take policy engineering courses).  The comparison between an MBA and an MPA is like this; picture a Venn diagram where the same management skills between both types of programs are similar to the extent that they can be placed in the middle section that overlaps.  Now place the technical curricula in each respective side, as appropriate to each degree's jurisdiction (keep in mind that the more technical the area is, the farther out it goes to the outermost arc of each respective circle).  In other words, the basic management skills (notwithstanding differences in soft skills courses, such as those relating to HR management) between both degrees are practically the same, but they differ sharply in their more technical areas.



Since it appears that you're concerned about market value, you may be better off with the MBA, as recruiters still on average don't truly understand the value of an MPA (MPA and MPP are referred to as MPA in this section).  But that doesn't diminish its actual value, because MPAs have the advantage not only in non-profit and government sectors, but also in for-profit sectors that are highly regulated, such as the automobile and pharmaceutical industries.  On the other hand, the MBA overall would give you better long-term leverage, especially in situations where you may transfer from one sector to another.  It's not as easy with an MPA, although some MPAs have ended up in MC, as an exception compared to the norm of MBAs going into MC and related industries.  The problem with the MPA in terms of career opportunities stems really from market perception, which limits its overall potential.  Don't get me wrong; it won't handicap you, but it's clear that the asymmetry of information that exists about the MPA comparative to the MBA has allowed the MBA pedigree to be judged much more accurately in relative terms.  Career opportunities for MPA/MPP degreed candidates are there (privatization, non-profit, national security, defense, etc.), and appear attractive (stable earnings and pension benefits/obligations, although usually less than that of the private sector) to many MBA candidates given the present economic conditions.  But all in all, this is an issue that requires extensive research in terms of developing your goals and objectives; anything short of this is pure speculation.



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Edited 11/14/2002 3:02:31 PM ET by MICINEX
  
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  From:  ICIPUTRA  Nov-14 2:42 pm  
To:  MICINEX  (3 of 29)  

  37624.3 in reply to 37624.2  

Thanks for the insights.   You seem to have good knowledge in both programs and their respective career opportunities.  May I know your background, what type of careers you're aspiring for, and which school you're applying (or going) to?

Thanks,

  
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  From:  MICINEX  Nov-14 4:47 pm  
To:  ICIPUTRA  (4 of 29)  

  37624.4 in reply to 37624.3  

I have an MPA from John Jay College, and I'm finishing my MBA at St. John's:  I'm preparing for their enterprise consulting program, which is their applied version of the seminar course for strategic planning.  It's a hybrid of executive education in that it's much more "applied" in scope.  Currently, working in Reg D private placements (P/E) and business development for small business and mid-level market firms with growth prospects.  Formerly in online media and marketing w/ 3yrs. cumulative exp. in Intranet development and management.
  
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  From:  ICIPUTRA  Nov-14 5:29 pm  
To:  MICINEX  (5 of 29)  

  37624.5 in reply to 37624.4  

"MPAs have the advantage not only in non-profit and government sectors, but also in for-profit sectors that highly regulated, such as the automobile and pharmaceutical industries. "

If I aim to work in Investment Management or Banking/Financial services focusing on a highly regulated industry (e.g.  Energy),  would it be worth the effort to get both MBA and MPA/MPP?



  
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  From:  DKNY_  Nov-14 5:47 pm  
To:  ICIPUTRA  (6 of 29)  

  37624.6 in reply to 37624.5  

Some schools offer the concurrent degree option.  For example, you can pursue an MBA from HBS with an MPA/MPP from Kennedy, and finish both, concurrently, in 2 yrs (electives doublecount and stuff like that).   
  
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  From:  MICINEX  Nov-14 8:46 pm  
To:  ICIPUTRA  (7 of 29)  

  37624.7 in reply to 37624.5  

Probably not, even though there are concurrent MBA/MPP programs available (the number seems to growing).  The advantage of having both degrees in terms of sector transferability and interoperability appears to be directly related to industry volatility, and your focus is on an industry that has significant volatility, but not to the extreme when long-term averages are computed.  You're better off pursuing the MBA with a dual concentration in public policy and finance if maximizing leverage in timing is paramount.  Getting both degrees from top-ranked schools will not necessarily afford you a proportionate advantage over someone who let's say has one degree from a top-ranked school of a similar caliber.  If you truly want both degrees, you need to not only look at the timing variable, but also other degree combinations, as well (JD/MBA, MBA/MS, etc.).  It's important to keep your options open.  People select different programs throughout their academic careers for different reasons: I picked John Jay's MPA program, because in addition to managerial skills development, I needed more of a macro approach to increase my understanding of how things worked, and also for the fact that I knew it was going to be eventually ranked #1 in U. S. News in CJ Policy and Management (Now, from what I hear, it's difficult to get into that program, and many applicants are undergrads from NYU and other top schools.)  If you look at the rise in apps for MPA programs, you see that more and more of them are attracted to non-profit management, and starting similar organizations out of ad hoc and school-related projects.  I say this to point out the cultural implications of your choice; it's obvious that you'll find more of the IB/IM types in bschool comparatively, and therefore you may wish to place more emphasis on bschool while working out your desired concentration(s).  It would be worth it to get both degrees if you and the administration of whatever school you select can structure your curriculum to give you the best education in the shortest amount of time.  In other words, you don't want sacrifice any of the areas to compensate for competing academic demands; if you can integrate both according to the conceptual framework or Venn diagram example that I outlined in a previous post then you shouldn't have a problem in your pursuits.



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Edited 11/15/2002 7:59:59 PM ET by MICINEX
  
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From:  thomasjames (CLOWNFISHER)  Nov-14 10:04 pm  
To:  ALL  (8 of 29)  

  37624.8 in reply to 37624.7  

check out:

http://www.mbajungle.com/main.cf ... p;bid=1&tid=238

(thanks again, micinex.)

one consideration not addressed - not easier to get into high ranking mpa program than mba? likewise might question if the schools mba ranking not more important than the mpa...

ended up with m.a., organizational change. now thinking about american university's m.s., development management. hmm. wonder how that combo will be received.







  
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  From:  REGALONE  Nov-15 12:41 am  
To:  DKNY_  (9 of 29)  

  37624.9 in reply to 37624.6  

燯 WROTE:
Some schools offer the concurrent degree option.?For example, you can pursue an MBA from HBS with an MPA/MPP from Kennedy, and finish both, concurrently, in 2 yrs (electives doublecount and stuff like that).?

_________________

CORRECTION: The Joint MBA/MPP programs take three years to complete, NOT two. Each degree alone is a two-year effort. The joint degree enables one to develop personalized educational regimes that connect the programs in a uniquely beautiful way, e.g., if you are doing the joint degree program between Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School and Columbia Business School or Wharton, you can specialize in Science, Technology & International Policy at Princeton and International Business and Finance at Wharton. It just doesn't get any better than that -- two remarkable credentials from two of the world's best programs!

I happen to know exactly two people who did this. Both are stellar!



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Edited 11/14/2002 7:48:12 PM ET by REGALONE
  
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  From:  DKNY_  Nov-15 1:11 am  
To:  REGALONE  (10 of 29)  

  37624.10 in reply to 37624.9  

Really?  Then I stand corrected.  My apologies to all for giving out incorrect information.
  
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  From:  MICINEX  Nov-15 11:40 am  
To:  thomasjames (CLOWNFISHER)  (11 of 29)  

  37624.11 in reply to 37624.8  

The MPA industry is not yet as competitive as the bschool industry, and won't be for quite some time.  But that doesn't mean that it's not getting more competitive every year.  Look very closely; a strange trend is taking place on these boards:  More and more posters are conversing about joint degree combinations than ever before.  I think that this is somewhat reflective of the increased intensity of competition seen in the labor market.  People aren't just marketing themselves on the MBA alone anymore (notwithstanding those from top bschools).  Schools are repackaging curriculums into hybrid exec-ed style Master's level programs, and conjoining them with other traditional programs that are already recognizable in the market.  Back to your question: It's only easier to get into a higher-ranked MPA program comparatively to a MBA program of similar caliber when both program types are statistically adjusted for in terms of rank by operationalized qualitative variables as well as those that are quantitative.  I'm basing this on a law of averages, for the reason that both types of schools have finite resources, and bschool in relative terms has a higher number of applicants, which in turn produces better selectivity data under the consideration that average school size differentials between both types have minimal deviation from the norm of management schools.  Now, if you're comparing a high-ranked MPA program to a basic MBA, then the MPA has the more difficult admissions process, thus alluding to the empirical theory that most of a management school's quality in terms of its reputation is based more on a highly developed admissions process than on anything else.  Simple observation of most bschool ranking methodologies across media entities supports this point.  I have a paradoxical counter argument to this one that should be addressed in a separate post.

As for your desired combination of degrees, the MA is much more recognizable than the MS, because development management conceptually tends to be more abstract, and this is most likely to give recruiters differing impressions adversely leading to the dilemma of the "double-edge" sword.  Pursuing a more technical concentration may not necessarily be the answer either, because it as an alternative route has increased susceptibility to less than optimal positioning, should you be incorrectly placed.  The proposed combination is optimal, because one supports the other and neither is mutually exclusive in the sense that you can use the knowledge, skills, and abilities gained in your MA program to help you obtain your MS.  How you define the MS to recruiters on the resume as well as in the interview process will effectively support your key strength of "adaptability" in highly volatile and depressed economies, such as this one, which according to economic theory affords the advantage to those with specialist skills compared to the generalists.

  
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  From:  thomasjames (CLOWNFISHER)  Nov-15 8:16 pm  
To:  MICINEX  (12 of 29)  

  37624.12 in reply to 37624.11  

think you are right that the MBA alone (notwithstanding those from top bschools) no longer so very meaningful. do need do something to distinguish from other graduates. in todays economy probably better to get degree targeted at first job post school - MS, finance rather than MBA (finance) .

should also consider how might satisfy qualification questions outside of school - have picked up the CQM and PMP certifications myself o demonstrate the more 'technical' skills have. any number of ways to show 'source credibility'.

just looking at the University of Pennsylvania (3rd ranked MBA, 35th ranked MPA) - hard to believe wouldn't be better to get the UP MPA then a 35th ranked (at best) MBA. Those who do appreciate the b-school distinction would still have to respect those (elective) classes that took through the b-school.

Cornell may be even better (19th ranked MBA, 35th ranked MPA) in that has the more generally recognized name.

would be pretty creative in considering other graduate degrees from name schools before settled for an MBA from a less well known school. UP offers Technology Management, Organizational Dynamics, Operations and Information Management, Marketing, Management, International Studies, Insurance and Risk Management, Health Care Systems, Government Administration, etc, etc. all likely less competitive than the MBA program. and all likely to allow any number of classes from the b-school.

  
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  From:  MICINEX  Nov-16 2:01 am  
To:  thomasjames (CLOWNFISHER)  (13 of 29)  

  37624.13 in reply to 37624.12  

Cornell would actually be a much better choice than UP in this regard; its geographical proximity to the State's capital lends an incredible advantage.  Keep in mind that Syracuse's MPA program is ranked no. 1 overall and normally exchanges places with that of Harvard in subsequent ranking periods.  Syracuse's geographical proximity affords it a huge advantage considering major factors that affect its overall reputation.  If you're comfortable with a niche-oriented career path, then "the specialist graduate degree from a more prestigious school strategy" would most likely work under the proposed conditions.

It's strange that you mention certification programs for "source credibility", because Columbia has an interesting one-year post-grad IT management program (known as the EITM program) at its School of Continuing Education, which in my opinion rivals many one-year MIS programs from competing institutions.  I point this out, because competition in terms of credential recognition is forming in certain niche areas of education and IT is one of them.  It's like asking, is a one-year certification program at the postgraduate level that lets you complete a real world project in an academic setting necessarily inferior to a one-year MIS degree?  So, your initiative to pursue those certifications will more than likely pay off in the near future.  I personally would go with the niche degree strategy, because in the future, brands will count more than they do now for the MBA.  It will be more important to convey where you got the MBA from than the designation itself in sectors which are by normal standards, already selective.  I recently read somewhere that MBA apps for bschool constitute 25% of all Masters level degree apps.  This is scary (although I'm skeptical as to the accuracy of that statement), and it's part of the reason why notwithstanding NYU and Columbia which are top-ranked, I chose to go to St. John's than go to the other schools not mentioned herein.  It's currently making huge investments in its academic reputation, since the constituency base is forcing the University to up the ante on admissions, grading policy, and school facilities.  Eventually, at some point, it like any other institution that has made the same investments will be difficult to get into.

NYU didn't always have the reputation it has now (mnemonic recall in some individuals tends to be short on these threads).  It spent what I believe was the last fifteen or more years give or take aggressively raising its admissions standards and recruiting world-class faculty.  If you research the history of many schools' academic reputations, you'll find aggressive movements in recruiting the best talent and raising admission's standards to be paramount.  The most severe case of this that I heard of concerned NYU Law School some years back; they went on a talent recruiting binge for at least three consecutive years in efforts to become more competitive than what they were, and they were already competitive back then.

As a matter of fact, as MPA degrees gain in popularity, rankings will eventually become more important, and the school that you select provided that it's investing heavily in its academic reputation will increase the branding value of your MPA degree down the line, even after you graduate.  I know; this is happening to me now with my MPA.



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Edited 11/16/2002 7:32:56 PM ET by MICINEX
  
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  From:  JNJ7895  Nov-16 4:07 am  
To:  ICIPUTRA  (14 of 29)  

  37624.14 in reply to 37624.1  

I saw this thread and thought I'd provide input.  Im a first year MBA at UNC with an interest in public policy - at UNC you can obtain a graduate minor or professional certificate in public policy by taking some extra classes during your MBA.  You might check into this possibility at the MBA programs you have considered.
  
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From:  thomasjames (CLOWNFISHER)  Nov-16 7:01 am  
To:  MICINEX  (15 of 29)  

  37624.15 in reply to 37624.13  

was just using UP as an example of leveraging. assuming want an MBA, think maybe better to consider MPA or other MA/MS from known school - believe a UP MA, management and a CFA better than a MBA (finance) from a lesser school. could benefit from UP network and associated name, demonstrate finance skills with charter.

can argue the least selective degree program from yale/stanford/harvard carry more weight than any top ranked specialty program (thunderbird?). a harvard MA, english and CFA will have greater access to finance work than most others.

could even have an advantage getting into english program or the like because of diversity could offer (assuming coming from business background).

would rank order: school, specialized degree, MBA. harvard english degree (if can prove business skills in some way), thunderbird MIM, u-washington (50th ranked) MBA.

for my interests, once graduate with MA/OC in december, moving to washington, DC.  will look for work and consider schools (AU, GO, GWU) there.

asked ASPA about MPA rankings, said unimportant now. sure you right though about future import.

would like to know if the 25/75 MBA/MA makeup true. if so, yikes!





  
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  From:  thomasjames (CLOWNFISHER)  Nov-16 9:33 am  
To:  ALL  (16 of 29)  

  37624.16 in reply to 37624.15  

just looked at thunderbird out of curiosity. do offer a certificate of advanced study. could spend spring and summer there for the economics and international development classes interested in and move on to d.c. then with the advantage of their reputation/network.

hmmm. what think?





  
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  From:  123456AS  Nov-16 12:43 pm  
To:  MICINEX  (17 of 29)  

  37624.17 in reply to 37624.7  

could you name or place rankwise some well-known MPA/MPP programs ?

thank you

  
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  From:  MICINEX  Nov-16 4:56 pm  
To:  123456AS unread  (18 of 29)  

  37624.18 in reply to 37624.17  

Rank/School Average
reputation score
(5 = highest)  
1.  Harvard University (MA) 4.5  
   Syracuse University (NY) 4.5  
3.  Indiana University--Bloomington  4.3  
4.  Princeton University (NJ) 4.2  
   University of California--Berkeley  4.2  
6.  University of Georgia  4.0  
7.  Carnegie Mellon University (PA) 3.9  
   University of Michigan--Ann Arbor  3.9  
   University of Southern California  3.9  
   University of Texas--Austin  3.9  
11.  University of Wisconsin--Madison  3.8  
12.  American University (DC) 3.7  
   Columbia University (NY) 3.7  
   SUNY--Albany  3.7  
   University of Chicago  3.7  
   University of Kansas  3.7  
   University of Minnesota--Twin Cities  3.7  
   University of North Carolina--Chapel Hill  3.7  
19.  Duke University (NC) 3.6  
   George Washington University (DC) 3.6  
   New York University  3.6  
   University of Maryland--College Park  3.6  
   University of Pittsburgh  3.6  
24.  Arizona State University  3.5  
   Florida State University  3.5  
   University of California--Los Angeles  3.5 ...[Message truncated]  

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  From:  REGALONE  Nov-16 6:00 pm  
To:  thomasjames (CLOWNFISHER)  (19 of 29)  

  37624.19 in reply to 37624.12  

You say:
Just looking at the University of Pennsylvania (3rd ranked MBA, 35th ranked MPA) - hard to believe wouldn't be better to get the UP MPA then a 35th ranked (at best) MBA. Those who do appreciate the b-school distinction would still have to respect those (elective) classes that took through the b-school.

_______________

Consider that someone applying to Wharton would also look to Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School or Hopkins' International Affairs School for the joint degree. Rarely would they choose UP's mediocre companion school


  
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   From:  thomasjames (CLOWNFISHER)  Nov-16 7:16 pm  
To:  REGALONE unread  (20 of 29)  

  37624.20 in reply to 37624.19  

missing the point - that the UP MPA less selective. that if cannot get into the UP MBA, might be better off with a UP MPA then the MBA program can get into.
  
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From:  ZAQ123XSW  Nov-16 11:18 pm  
To:  ICIPUTRA  (21 of 29)  

  37624.21 in reply to 37624.1  

I have a specialized MPP from George Washington (sci/tech policy) and I'm now pursuing my MBA at MIT Sloan.  From my experience the two degrees are quite different, but also very complementary.  The MBA is providing me with a strong set of core business skills and knowledge in economics, finance, accounting, operations, and strategy.  The MPP provided me with a solid understanding of the broader political and fiscal issues that affect government and business.  

Although it's expensive and time consuming, I'm a strong advocate of joint or dual MBA/MPP degree programs -- I think that you will be more effective in whatever path you choose, whether it's business management, investment banking, consulting, or public service.  

As for specific career choices if you choose one or the other -- the MPP degree from GWU provided me with opportunities in government (OMB, DoD, Congressional staff, GAO, etc) and government-focused companies (federal contractors).  MBA recruiting is focused on investment banking, management consulting, marketing, and project/program management.  I don't know anyone in my MBA program who intends to pursue a career in the federal government, and likewise I don't know anyone from my MPP program who works today in investment banking or Big Three consulting (Bain, BCG, McKinsey).  So the recruiting experiences are very, very different -- something you need to be aware of.  The caveat, of course, is that other schools and programs may offer a very different experience, so be sure to do your homework and ask lots of questions during campus visits.  

Good luck!

  
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  From:  PAPASIK  Nov-17 2:18 am  
To:  ZAQ123XSW  (22 of 29)  

  37624.22 in reply to 37624.21  

I've got an MPA from Princeton (Woodrow Wilson School) in Intl Relations. If you plan a position in international consulting or IB (esp emerging markets and sovereign / muni debt) you might actually be BETTER prepared with an MPA. Knowing how IMF and WB work inside is more important that knowing all ins and outs of CAPM -- if your subject is Brazil, Mexico, Korea or Russia. I made quite a career researching bonds and sovereign risks for IBs. Yet, if you ever decide to work in domestic private sector or start a new business, then the MPA education, apart from some generic skills, will be pretty worthless.  
  
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  From:  UBCCANADA  12:50 am  
To:  MICINEX  (23 of 29)  

  37624.23 in reply to 37624.7  

what are my chances of getting into PhD program in Economics after I finish my MPA?

Thanks

  
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  From:  MICINEX  2:44 am  
To:  UBCCANADA  (24 of 29)  

  37624.24 in reply to 37624.23  

That combination is very good.  Adcoms are more likely to get a better impression of your potential for research contribution, especially if you've done some serious thesis work during your tenure in the MPA program.
  
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  From:  UBCCANADA  5:03 am  
To:  MICINEX  (25 of 29)  

  37624.25 in reply to 37624.24  

Thank you so much for your prompt response. I have not even started my MPA program yet. I am thinking about it. The university I am planning on going does not have a thesis option.

I finished my BS degree in Management (Information Systems) a couple of months ago. This coming fall I am planning to go back to graduate school. I have been already admited to Master in Public Policy. I am going to apply to MS in Information Technolgoy and MPA in International Development/Not-for-Profit.

I am very confused what to study. I kind of like computers, but I don't enjoy them very much. I kind of like economics and I did well in my economics classes in my undergraduate. I like politics and government, but I want to make a lot of money too. I heard that there is no money in politics and government. Our goverment is not very good. BTW, I am an international student.

I hope that you would not mind helping me out from this mess of what to study.

Thank you so much.

  
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  From:  MICINEX  5:56 am  
To:  UBCCANADA  (26 of 29)  

  37624.26 in reply to 37624.25  

I specialized in Management and Operations when I did my MPA, so as to provide some leverage that's inclusive of for-profit management.  I didn't do a thesis option either, but passed all my comprehensive exams on the first try (Most students in my former program fail one at least once, and you only get three tries before dismissal from the program.)  You create leverage from the MPA by focusing on areas the overlap in the private sector/business world, such as management, operations, logistics, etc.  If you could apply to an MFE or MS in Financial Engineering, then you could maximize leverage, but these are just examples used to point out that you have more options ahead of you than you may think.  I have to agree with a previous poster who said that both MBA/MPA degrees will make you much more effective than either one, but the true question is how will recruiters see it.  I wouldn't worry here, because the opportunities for MPAs are growing.
  
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  From:  UBCCANADA  6:10 am  
To:  MICINEX  (27 of 29)  

  37624.27 in reply to 37624.26  

Thank you very much for your response.

I didn't understand what you were trying to say. What I udnerstood from your post is MPA is growing.

I would like to know that which program will take me further out of these three (Moneywise, opportunitywise, and promotionwise):

MS in Information Technology, MPP, MPA.

Thanks

  
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  From:  MICINEX  1:13 pm  
To:  UBCCANADA  (28 of 29)  

  37624.28 in reply to 37624.27  

MPA/MPP will afford a better long-term advantage when economic states are adjusted for, but during depressed economies those with specialist skills usually gain priority in the labor market, so I wouldn't rule out an MS in a technical field.
  
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lyhcynthiaUID：2178647

thanks for sharing ,
very useful~