issue167【文以载道三月小分组】第2次作业大贴

robert5050UID: 2478679

文以载道三月小分组计划1.0：
现在起到春节的计划：
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作业贴，请不要灌水，谢谢。

oatsUID: 2248256

It is impossible for an effective political leader to tell the truth all the time. Complete honesty is not a useful virtue for a politician.
字数：654
1.观点：不赞同
2. To tell the truth is a basic moral standard and complete honesty is a virtue for anyone.
3. If we permit political leaders to tell a lie, it will cause many problems
4. Telling a lie may solve a problem temperarily (temporarily), while it cannot solve problem foundmentally(fundamentally).
5. If there is something which is though not propriate (appropriate) to say the trueth, they can choose not to say and keep silent.
6. Sum up.

From the ancient times of the human history, to be honest is considered as great virtue of any single one individual. As the basic moral standard being taught from the kingdergarten (kindergarten) stage, now it is no doubt that political leaders should obey the rule like normal people. Honesty is a virtue for anyone in the society surely including the politician.
From when we were little children, teachers told us that telling a lie is really a bad habit and one should take responsibility for the words he/she says, or other people will hesitate to believe you next time. Honesty is such an important virtue which helps us greatly to build a homornic (harmonic) society. It can be hardly imagined that if everyone thinks telling a lie is such an ordinary thing just like eating or drinking, the society can operate normally, because people will never believe others easily in that kind of circunstanse (circumstance) and they need to think about every single word of the other people, whether it is true or false. Surely lacking of trust will lead to the crisis of credit system of a society.
Apparently, as a menber (member) of the society, political leader should also obey the moral standard which is used to require ordinary people. If the opinion that political leaders may not keep honesty sometimes from some special reasons, it will cause many problems. Firstly, the lack of honesty will open a door to unfairness. Political leaders are the persons who have more privileges and resources than the normal people and they can make decisions to the public affairs. If they are permitted not always to tell the truth to the public, they can take advantage from the resources in their hand and avoid to be punished by cheating much more easily, and it will be very difficult to seek their fault because they has the privilege to tell a lie for some reason which they don't have the responsibility to open to the public. Furthermore, it will definitely lead to the loss of government credibility. As most of the political leaders are the represents of the government, the words they say represent the opinion of the government. If they are no need to take responsibility to the words they say, then public will never know what information from the government are valued to trust. Thus, politicians play such special roles in the society, the honesty requirement for them should be even higher than the ordinary people and the public absolutely has the right to require the politicians to have complete honesty.
However, some may argue that telling a lie may not be needed in some special circumstances, say, earthquake or some influent diseases. While does telling a lie really the only and best method to solve these emergent problems? Definitely no. Take influent diseases for instance, one political leader may say that there is no problem in the disease region to avoid the large range of crisis. If the disease can be under control, the political leader escapes the responsibility. While if the disease cannot be controlled, eventually the reality will release to public and crisis control action should also be taken. And it will risk more people's life to tell a lie in early stage because the disease control actions can only be taken secretly. Apparently the better choice is giving public accurate information of what happened but not telling a lie.
While there indeed something which is not proper to open to the public, for example, information about national security. But it is believed that a better method to deal with this kind of problems is keeping silent than saying something which does not exist.
We can come to the conclusion that telling the truth all the time is a basic moral standard for anyone in any time of a society, especially for political leaders. And complete honesty is surely a virtue to keep our politicians and our government always believed by the public.

[ 本帖最后由 oats 于 2008-11-18 18:56 编辑 ]

lemoncoffeeteaUID: 2558585

说在前面的话
1.        上星期六开始看什么是GREAW, 到这第一篇出炉，经历了不少，还请大家多多指教。
2.        字数：466
3.        平衡观点，在某些特定情况下回避事实是不可避免的，但是诚实是一个有成效的政治家最基本最重要的品格。
4.        提纲： 开头+   有时政治家需要做一些必要的政治修饰(让步)+   政治修饰与说谎是不同的(相反)+   诚信是一个政治家必不可少的美德(相反)+    结尾。
5.        感想：1整个过程比较纠结。坐在电脑前看到大篇的空白觉得好恐怖。。。2这篇文章交给雷同检测器肯定判雷同了，借用了好多范文和工具箱的词和句 3. 感觉文章论证地有些空， 一句话正过来说一遍反过来再说一遍，换种说法再说一遍。。。我知道不应该这样的。
6.        “诚信是每一个政治家必不可少那段的美德” 那段其实正过来反过去应该有无数例子的，不应该这么短，但是我用不来。。。自己写不出来又改不来别人的。。。。纠结
7.        废话不多说了，大家指点吧，狠一点。

Issue 167 by lemoncoffeetea on 20081118
It is impossible for an effective political leader to tell the truth all the time. Complete honesty is not a useful virtue for a politician.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is an absolutely honest political leader an effective leader? The speaker gives the negative answer while I believe that honesty is necessary for a politician to be effective though he might have to be less-than-truthful under some particular circumstances.

On one hand Political leader must sometime lie to be effective. The word "Political leader" usually refers to a leader of weighty party or a country, who is supposed to put the benefit of its people at first place. Therefore, whether a politician is effective or not largely depends on how he considers the public. With respect to the above criteria, it is clear that political leader is required to be skillful in rhetoric. Completely honesty, in other words, fully disclosure of certain type of information like national developing plan, valuable intelligence would only result in threatening national security or even the people's normal lives. Withholding is sometime necessary to avoid panic and a kind of protection. Absolutely forthrightness has no difference with naivete and lack of experienced, both of which might be used by opponents to point out his vulnerability.

On the other hand are two compelling arguments implying that honesty plays an important and necessary role in the game of politics. One argument is that political rhetoric doesn't equals to lie. Rhetoric is the art of speaking or writing effectively. Rhetoric skill is only applied to persuade and influence people or to make people convinced, but not misrepresent the fact, in other words, lie. A speech with no rhetorical phrases might not be impressive nor effective. "We need to be optimistic when facing the dropdown of economics." always said by President Bush，which raises the confidence of whole country and to avoid the potential panic. "For those who still have doubts that all things are possible, tonight's victory is the answer." said by the president-elect Barack Obama, which make thunderous applause from supporters. No one doubts these two sentences are lie and in fact, they are excellent politician rhetoric.

Secondly, political leader need to have his positive figure among people which requires him to be as honest as possible. Undoubtedly, lack of integrity is much more fatal than lack of experience. A successful politician at least earns people's trust, otherwise the possible end can be forfeit. For example, Watergate is an American political scandal and constitutional crisis that led to the resignation of President Richard Nixon. In contrast, The second leader of People's Republic of China, Den Xiaopin was known as highly effective leader largely because his honesty and forthrightness. Without a countervailing measure of integrity, without a trust from public , Politician has no chip to continue playing on the game table.

In sum, political game needs its player to be disingenuous sometime. Yet, The Lucky Godness always turns to the honest side.

[ 本帖最后由 lemoncoffeetea 于 2008-11-18 22:23 编辑 ]

shannanUID: 2524560

It is impossible for an effective political leader to tell the truth all the time. Complete honesty is not a useful virtue for a politician.
字数：425
1.观点：平衡
2. 总观点：政治家并不需要诚实.
3. 分三点：1、政治家不需要一直诚实
                 2、真相本身有时候并不是群众需要的
                3、半真话对政治家更有利。
4、然而，有些问题需要诚实。
5. Sum up.
   
Is complete honesty a useful virtue for a polician?The statement raises a variety of issues about morality,concience,self-perservation,and politics.On the balance,however,I fundamentally agree with the notion that an excellent polician do not need to tell the truth all the time-the society itself is not consist of truth.
As I see it,there are three fundamental arguments for imposing on the purpose of the policians.One of the most crucial strategies for a polician is not to tell the truth all the time.The derivation of the meaning of the word "politics" includes the qualities sagacity and shrewdness in managing.This helps to define the nature of politics and suggests the importance of strategy for policians.The nature of politics is to control the power,thus the strategy for policians is to seize the management,not the truth.
The second argument is an appeal to truth itself.Not all the truth is popular news.An effective polician always handle the real-world situation as skilly as possible.Every govenment has its secret.Roosevelt condoned top secret research on the atomic bomb,which eventually brought about end World War II.A serphiscated leader who code with politics continually kown how to induce the common people to get rid of panic condition.
The third argument has to do with the necessary of some forms of half-truth,which are an inescapable part of politics in representative democraties.The reputation of a political candidate can be irreparable damaged if he or she is exposed in a lie,so a complex style of language has evolved to minimise the chance of this happening.As a person exposed in the stage which is full of lights,sometimes half-truth words are mose expected,and policians statement are rarelly accepted at face value.Maybe half-truths are the best accepted words for the common instead of hopeless truth in some spacial cases,like catalyse or ect.
On the other hand,there is a compelling argument that policians should honest as possible given the sensitivity of any paticular issues.A sagacious polician would not aimless focu on blooming on cavity talking.The first thing one candidate would do is to achieve the trust of the voters.For example,Clinton admit the truth of the scandals,but he is still the one who left office with the highest voter approval rating of all modern presidens.
In the final analysis,the issue of policians' honesty is a complex one,requiring subjective jugements about moral duty ,reputation,and the social needs.Thus there are no easy or certain answers.An effective and sophiscated polician do not connet with complex honesty completelly.He may use varies of means to solve the problems,though in some particular cases,truth can not be escaped-in accordane with the common needs.

robert5050UID: 2478679

Issue167（423）
提纲：
总论点：Honesty is still a helpful virtue for a politician though it might not be available all the time.（大正小负，诚实对于政治领导者来说仍然有用，但是并不是一直有效）
分论点1：Being frank and candid is a virtue for everyone no matter they are under what situation（诚实不管对于任何人都是美德）
分论点2：It is fairly important to be honesty when the politicians are facing some serious crises
（诚实可以用来解决危机）
分论点3：（轻微让步）a politician can’t be honesty at all times（政治领导者不能一直都诚实）
总结：
The author suggests that being an effective political leader should modestly hold some information for public because it is not a useful virtue for a politician to be entirely honesty.As for me, however, I tend to agree that honesty is still a helpful virtue for a politician though it might not be available all the time.

To begin with, being frank and candid is a virtue for everyone no matter they are under what situation. Moreover, being honesty is beneficial for the political leaders to establish a good public image. Take the new president of the United States of America Barack Obama for example. He never disguises his family background: his father is a black Kenyan and his mother is a white American. He is the first black candidate of the president. Besides, he never evades his hard childhood. When he is 6 years old, he moved to Indonesia with his mother and stepfather. They lived in a slum for 5 years. However, all of these didn’t tarnish the image of him. On the contrary, he won the votes from the people of different color.Under this circumstance, it is obvious that politicians benefit from being honesty to the public. As a result, they win the support and appreciation.

Furthermore, it is fairly important to be honesty when the politicians are facing some serious crises. One of those crises is the epidemic disease SARS broke out in China in 2000. The Chinese government didn’t choose to conceal the issue. They announced the number of the patients infected every day. This movement relieved the panic of public. In the end, the Chinese government resolved this crisis of public hygiene successfully. In other words, when facing some emergency issue the politician should be honesty to cope with it properly.

Admittedly, a politician can’t be honesty at all times especially on the affairs such as state military secret or the information that may result in widespread public panic and much more damage. Suppose that the political leader never hide anything to the public on every occasion, the nations will be in disorders and the security of the nation can’t be defended.

To sum up, from the reasons which have been mentioned above, we may finally draw the conclusion that being an effective political leader still need to be honesty while they would tell some white lies where it is required in that honesty is not only a virtue for each of us especially for the politicians but also a measure to solve the complicated political issues.

参考资料：苏明明GRE写作综述，Google

[ 本帖最后由 robert5050 于 2008-11-19 14:47 编辑 ]

tiffany2108UID: 2533729

"It is impossible for an effective political leader to tell the truth all the time. Complete honesty is

not a useful virtue for a politician."

观点：平衡  字数:412

论点：政客是无法做到永远说明真相的，在某些情况下，他们也的确需要保留真相，但是诚信仍是政客的基本美德。

分论 1.永远说明真相是不可能的,在某些情况下需要保留。
     2.但政客不诚实，是会有危险情况发生的。
     
总结

The speaker argues that an effective political leader is impossible to tell the truth all the time and complete honesty is useless for a politician. I tend to agree that politicians hold back the truth in some special occasion, but honesty is a basic and necessary virtue for politician to stand.

It’s impossible for normal people always tell the truth, let alone politicians who face so many complex politic affairs that our public cannot imagine. An effective political leader’s decision would affect a political party, even a country. With this responsibility, political leaders have to consider the influence of information about the truth would make, especially in occasion that people easy to get unnecessary fluster. Almost every country has its secret government files, which are relevant to country’s security and society’s stability so that the political leader will not tell the truth when some one asked about them, until files are overdue. In addition, not to tell the truth all the time did not mean lying. In fact politicians are sophisticated at rhetoric, by which they don’t need to lie but avoid giving essential information.

However, it turns to be a dangerous situation that political leaders choose to hold back the truth in the conception of “useless honesty”. Sometimes, politicians do this for escaping their own fault. At the beginning of SARS crisis in 2003, some local political leader in China cut the number of infected when they reported it to the above to disguise their breach of duty. Communicate Science tells that the more truths are hidden, the more canards get around. So covering of truth let the public believe the canard that many people suffer to die and that vinegar can defend the virus, which make the public rattled and the price of vinegar sours to several hundred Yuan, hundred times of its original value. What’s more, the law says, the political leaders get the power from the civilian, serve the civilian, so once the truth is revealed some time, it can destroy public trust and the leader’s own political life into debris. Honesty is definitely basic virtue for political leaders.

In sum, political leaders can’t tell the truth all the time, but civilians have the right to know of most political affairs that are tightly related to them. Honesty is a virtue to earn trust, to get support for political leaders. Though there are affairs that can’t tell the truth, they act like a white lie to protect the society.

参考资料:百度了一小下

robert5050UID: 2478679

On shannan:
总观点：政治家并不需要诚实.（实际的总论点英文为：I fundamentally agree with the notion that an excellent polician(politician) do not need to tell the truth all the time-the society itself is not consist of truth.政治家不需要一直诚实因为社会本身不是由真实构成的，原因过于抽象，难以说理，后面关于这点的论述分散在个段，比较混乱，建议把社会就是不真实的当作一个独立的分论点，另写一段）

分三点：1、政治家不需要一直诚实（One of the most crucial strategies for a polician(politician)  is not to tell the truth all the time.与主题句基本重复，分论点不清晰）
                 2、真相本身有时候并不是群众需要的
                3、半真话对政治家更有利然而，有些问题需要诚实。

Is complete honesty a useful virtue for a polician(politician)? The statement raises a variety of issues about morality, conscience (conscience), self-perservation (preservation)（自我保护？）, and politics. On the balance, however(逻辑含糊，此处转折对应的地方模糊), I fundamentally（这个副词不错） agree with the notion that an excellent polician(politician) do not need to tell the truth all the time-（+in that表示因果关系，逻辑关系处最好用关系词表明）the society itself is not consist of truth.

As I see it, there are three fundamental arguments for imposing on the purpose (imposing on the purpose?) of the policians(politician).
（这里另起一段，不然结构混乱）
One of the most crucial strategies for a polician(politician)  is not to tell the truth all the time.（+Because it is determined by the nature of the politics这样后面的说理有一个中心，而且这一个可以作为真正的第一个分论点，而不是提纲中写的含糊的政治家不需要一直诚实）  The derivation of the meaning of the word "politics" includes the qualities sagacity and shrewdness in managing（in managing?）. This helps to define the nature of politics and suggests the importance of strategy for policians(politician). The nature of politics is to control the power, thus the strategy for policians(politician)  is to seize the management (seize the management？), not the truth.

The second argument is an appeal to truth (appeal to the truth?) itself. Not all the truth is popular news. (这个主题句我没有看懂，是想表达民众不能知道所有真相是么？) An effective polician(politician)  always handle the real-world situation as skilly as possible. Every govenment(government) has its secret. Roosevelt condoned top secret research on the atomic bomb, which eventually brought about （the）end (of) World War II.A serphiscated （sophisticated） leader who code with politics continually kown(knows) how to induce the common people to get rid of panic condition.

The third argument has to do with the necessary(necessity) of some forms of half-truth, which are an inescapable part of politics in representative democraties. (representative democraties？)(第三个理由与半真话的需要有关，半真话是民主中不可避免出现的问题。这是第三个论点)The reputation of a political candidate can be irreparable damaged if he or she is exposed in a lie, so a complex style of language has evolved to minimize the chance of this happening(it happens).（与分论点的逻辑关系是？） As a person exposed in the stage which is full of lights, sometimes half-truth words are mose expected, and policians(politicians) statement are rarelly (rarely) accepted at face value. Maybe(忌讳说理时用Maybe,如果本身论据都是maybe,那么支持论点更加难以成立) half-truths are the best accepted words for the common instead of hopeless truth in some spacial（special） cases, like catalyse or ect.（这段说理几乎全部是抽象的论证，仅仅在摆道理，没有实例也没有必要的逻辑推理，如果觉得说理较难可以考虑替换分论点）

On the other hand, there is a compelling argument that policians should  honest as possible given the sensitivity of any paticular (particular) issues.（这句话看不懂，语法分析出来有问题） A sagacious polician(politician) would not aimless(aimlessly) focu(focus) on blooming(on blooming?) on cavity talking(空洞的谈话？). The first thing one candidate would do is to achieve the trust of the voters. For example, Clinton admit the truth of the scandals, but he is still the one who left office with the highest voter approval rating of all modern presidens（presidents）.

In the final analysis, the issue of policians' (politicians) honesty is a complex one, requiring subjective jugements(judgements) about moral duty , reputation, and the social needs.( 是一个需要主观判断的从道德，名誉和社会需要方面讨论的，可是论述部分没有就这些进行系统分类的讨论，如果笼统一说会觉得很突兀) Thus there are no easy or certain answers.（最后还是再说是很难解决的问题） An effective and sophiscated polician do not connet（connect） with complex honesty completely(completely). He may use varies of means to solve the problems(最后没有回到诚信到底是不是政治家所必须这一论题上面来), though in some particular cases, truth can not be escaped-in accordane with the common needs.

点评：1、我很细心的改了这篇文章，参考了http://bbs.gter.ce.cn/bbs/viewthread.php?tid=670640&extra=page%3D1%26amp%3Bfilter%3Ddigest 如何该文章的帖子，自己改完以后收获也很大。

2、关于结构：对于这篇文章，我觉得提纲和文章没有完整的联系，导致结构比较混乱，每段的分论点也不是太清晰，这是GRE文章的大忌，还希望 shannan以后能改进。建议，先把提纲想透彻，写文章的时候照着提纲来，注意自己说的每一句话与前一句话与论点的逻辑关系）

3、关于语言：可以看出shannan还是努力想把句子写的尽量长一点，漂亮一点，可是感觉有不少地方是用中文的思维生造的，建议初学的时候还是以模仿背诵为主，尽量少用自己的语言，毕竟我们的母语不是英语。另外单词还望拼写检查后交，谢谢）

4、关于论证：还是要注意各句的逻辑关系，每写一句都想想这一段的中心是什么，是否紧承了上面一句话。

5、希望我的意见能对你的AW有帮助，还有一些纯属个人意见，还望共勉，谢谢。

[ 本帖最后由 robert5050 于 2008-11-20 17:23 编辑 ]

oatsUID: 2248256

On robert5050
The author suggests that being an effective political leader should modestly hold some information for public because it is not a useful virtue for a politician to be entirely honesty. As for me (仿佛没见过这种用法？？改成in my opinion??), however, I tend to agree that honesty is still a helpful virtue for a politician though it might not be available all the time.（基本不赞同题目的观点但有所保留）To begin with, being frank and candid is a virtue for everyone no matter they are under what situation. Moreover, being honesty is beneficial for the politics to establish a good public image. Take the new president of the United States of America Barack Obama for example. He never disguises his family background: his father is a black Kenyan and his mother is a white American. He is the first black candidate of the president. Besides, he never evades his hard childhood. When he is 6 years old, he moved to Indonesia with his mother and stepfather. They lived in a slum for 5 years. However, all of these didn’t tarnish the image of him. On the contrary, he won the votes from the people of different color. Under this circumstance, it is obvious (obviously) that politicians benefit from being honesty to the public. As a result, they win the support and appreciation.（这段的观点应该不是提纲总结的对普通人有效，而是对政治家是有用的品质吧，举的例子也是针对政治家的，而且也仅仅是举了对公众形象有益，可以加一个益处更加充分的说明观点，或者反过来说不诚实会造成什么后果）Furthermore, it is fairly important to be honesty when the politicians are facing some serious crises. One of those crises is the epidemic disease SARS broke out in China in 2000. The Chinese government didn’t choose to conceal the issue. They announced the number of the patients infected every day. This movement relieved the panic of public. In the end, the Chinese government resolved this crisis of public hygiene successfully. In other words, when facing some emergency issue the politician should be honesty to cope with it properly. （举例诚实对处理紧急事件是有帮助的，个人认为sars的例子应该是政府开始隐瞒，所以没好结果，后来决定公开，得到好结果，这样感觉对观点要充分点，就是不诚实不好，诚实好，顺便凑个字数，呵呵。而且这里观点要讨论的是政治家诚实的问题，而不是政府是否诚实的问题，觉得应该先过渡一下就是说大多数政治家是代表政府发言的）
Admittedly, a politician can’t be honesty at all times especially on the affairs such as state military secret or the information that may result in widespread public panic and much more damage. Suppose that the political leader never hide anything to the public on every occasion, the nations will be in disorders and the security of the nation can’t be defended.（绝对的诚实可能带来恐慌和灾难）
To sum up, from the reasons which have been mentioned above, we may finally draw the conclusion that being an effective political leader still need to be honesty while they would tell some white lies where it is required in that honesty is not only a virtue for each of us especially for the politicians but also a measure to solve the complicated political issues.参考资料：苏明明GRE写作综述，Google
感觉对观点的分析还不够深入，各个分观点之间也没有内在的逻辑联系，只是简单的把赞成或者不赞成的态度列出来。最好是能有层次的推进就好了，先说对所有人是美德，然后政治家也属于所有人中的一个特殊部分，对政治家也是有益的，这样来应该好点，共勉：）

robert5050UID: 2478679

On oats:
It is impossible for an effective political leader to tell the truth all the time. Complete honesty is not a useful virtue for a politician.
字数：654
1.观点：不赞同
2. To tell the truth is a basic moral standard and complete honesty is a virtue for anyone.（对大众来说都是美德）
3. If we permit political leaders to tell a lie, it will cause many problems（反面论证）
4. Telling a lie may solve a problem temperarily (temporarily), while it cannot solve problem foundmentally(fundamentally).（只可能暂时解决问题，不能长久解决）
5. If there is something which is though not propriate (appropriate) to say the trueth, they can choose not to say and keep silent.（不能说实话的地方，可以保持沉默）
6. Sum up.

From the ancient times of the human history, to be honest is considered as （a）great virtue of any single one（我查了一下，好像没有one?） individual. As the basic moral standard being taught from the kingdergarten (kindergarten) stage, now it is no doubt that political leaders should obey the rule like normal people. Honesty is a virtue for anyone in the society surely（这个副词很地道） including the politician.（回应明确，政治家也需要诚实）
From when we were little children, teachers told us that telling a lie is really a bad habit and one should take responsibility for the words he/she says, or other people will hesitate to believe you next time. Honesty is such an important virtue which helps us greatly（副词用的真的很有感觉） to build a homornic (harmonic) society. It can be hardly imagined that if everyone thinks telling a lie is such an ordinary thing just like eating or drinking, the society can operate normally, because people will never believe others easily in that（逻辑明确） kind of circunstanse (circumstance) and they need to think about every single word of the other people, whether it is true or false. （反面论证，使说理更加丰富）Surely lacking of trust will lead to the crisis of credit system of a society.（反面重申论点）
Apparently, as a menber (member) of the society, （a）political leader should also obey the moral standard which is used to require ordinary people. If the opinion that political leaders may not keep honesty sometimes from some special reasons, it will cause many problems. Firstly, the lack of honesty will open a door to unfairness. Political leaders are the persons who have more privileges and resources than the normal people and they can make decisions to the public affairs. If they are permitted not always to tell the truth to the public, they can take advantage from the resources in their hand and avoid to be punished by cheating much more easily, and it will be very difficult to seek their fault because they has the privilege to tell a lie for some reason which they don't have the responsibility to open to the public. Furthermore, it will definitely lead to the loss of government credibility. As most of the political leaders are the represents of the government, the words they say represent the opinion of the government. If they are no need to take responsibility to the words they say, then public will never know what information from the government are valued to trust. Thus, politicians play such special roles in the society, the honesty requirement for them should be even higher（强调不仅需要而且更需要重复分论点同时升华了论点！）than the ordinary people and the public absolutely has the right to require the politicians to have complete honesty.
However, some may argue that telling a lie may not be needed in some special circumstances, say,（这种用法我在新概念4上看过，值得学习） earthquake or some influent diseases. While does telling a lie really the only and best method to solve these emergent problems? Definitely no.（设问句表明观点！） Take influent diseases for instance, one political leader may say that there is no problem in the disease region to avoid the large range of crisis. If the disease can be under control, the political leader escapes the responsibility. While if the disease cannot be controlled, eventually the reality will release to public and crisis control action should also be taken. And it will risk more people's life to tell a lie in early stage because the disease control actions can only be taken secretly. Apparently the better choice is giving public accurate information of what happened but not telling a lie.
While there indeed something which is not proper to open to the public, for example, information about national security. But it is believed that a better method to deal with this kind of problems is keeping silent than saying something which does not exist.
We can come to the conclusion that telling the truth all the time is a basic moral standard for anyone in any time of a society, especially for political leaders. And complete honesty is surely a virtue to keep our politicians and our government always believed by the public.
点评：1、语言：很多闪光语言点，副词用的很娴熟，还有新概念4上看到的句子。是我希望达到的层次，如果硬要挑刺就是有些地方还是能看出不是老外写的。不过这和母语是中文有关，呵呵。
2、结构：条理很清晰，我觉得读这篇文章花的时间很少，但是很快就能把握作者要表达的意思。
3、论证：正反论证运用的相当娴熟，也有很多地方用到举例论证。说理也很充分。如果能加点实例会更好。
4、总而言之这是篇不错的issue，值得学习。




[ 本帖最后由 robert5050 于 2008-11-20 17:38 编辑 ]

shannanUID: 2524560

哈，谢谢啦！真的非常感动！我逻辑的确需要改进！

shannanUID: 2524560

On lemoncoffeetea:
Is an absolutely honest political leader an effective leader? The speaker gives the negative answer (这句是否结构有问题？give sb sth. Or give sth to sb.是否应该改为give us the …)while I believe that honesty is necessary for a politician to be effective though he might have to be less-than-truthful under some particular circumstances.

On one hand Political leader must sometime lie to be effective(这句不太通顺，可否改为,sometimes,political leader have to lie to be effective). The word "Political leader" usually refers to a leader of weighty(是想说在党派中地位有分量，还是说在有地位的党派中？我单词也背的不够，不过chief 怎样？) party or a country, who is supposed to put the benefit of its（主语是his吧?） people at first place. Therefore, whether a politician is effective or not largely depends on how he considers of the public. With respect to the above criteria, it is clear that political leader is required to be skillful in rhetoric.(好像和上一句逻辑关系不连续，因为他认为社会不同，所以需要花言巧语？不如therefore那句不要了) Completely honesty, in other words, fully disclosure of （disclose）certain type of information like national developing plan, valuable intelligence (which is valuable moral)would only result in threatening national security (national security threatening)or even the people's normal lives. Withholding(这个词的意思是扣交。。。作者大概想说保留) is sometime necessary to avoid panic and a kind of protection. Absolutely forthrightness has no difference with naivete and lack of experienced（experience）, both of which might be used by opponents to point out his vulnerability.(这词不错～)

On the other hand (+there) are two compelling arguments implying that honesty plays an important and necessary role in the game of politics. One argument is that political rhetoric doesn't equals to lie. Rhetoric(rhetor) is the art of speaking or writing effectively. Rhetoric skill is only applied to persuade and influence people or to make people convinced, but not misrepresent the fact, in other words, lie. A speech with no rhetorical phrases might not be impressive nor effective. "We need to be optimistic when facing the dropdown of economics." always said by President Bush，which raises the confidence of （the）whole country and to(去掉) avoid the potential panic. "For those who still have doubts that all things are possible, tonight's victory is the answer." said by the president-elect Barack Obama, which make thunderous applause from supporters. No one doubts these two sentences are lie and in fact, they are excellent politician rhetoric.

Secondly, political leader need to have his positive figure among people which requires him to be as honest as possible. Undoubtedly, lack of integrity is much more fatal than lack of experience. A successful politician at least earns people's trust, otherwise the possible end can be forfeit.（can be 和 possible一个意思） For example, Watergate is an American political scandal and constitutional crisis that led to the resignation of President Richard Nixon. In contrast, The second leader of People's Republic of China, Den Xiaopin was known largely as highly effective leader because of his honesty and forthrightness. Without a countervailing measure of integrity, without a trust from public , Politician has no chip to continue playing on the game table.

In sum, political game needs its player to be disingenuous sometime. Yet, The Lucky Godness always turns to the honest side.(结尾我觉得不太好，有点仓促，虽然暗示了一下，但是否应该更为具体些？)
1、语言：我非常不客气，呵呵。看出作者和我一样，语言不太地道，看来我们需要一起努力拉～要多背才好。
2、结构：层次还可以，但是论据不太充分，比如第二段，有点不知所云。
3、论证：还是上一点，有的地方有点牵强。
4、总而言之，作者需要更多的背诵，和我的作文一样需要改进。。。逻辑思路需要清晰些，有些语法的掌握需要改进。
5.再接再厉啊！希望我的修改能对你有所帮助！

shannanUID: 2524560

On lemoncoffeetea:
Is an absolutely honest political leader an effective leader? The speaker gives the negative answer (这句是否结构有问题？give sb sth. Or give sth to sb.是否应该改为give us the …)while I believe that honesty is necessary for a politician to be effective though he might have to be less-than-truthful under some particular circumstances.

On one hand Political leader must sometime lie to be effective(这句不太通顺，可否改为,sometimes,political leader have to lie to be effective). The word "Political leader" usually refers to a leader of weighty(是想说在党派中地位有分量，还是说在有地位的党派中？我单词也背的不够，不过chief 怎样？) party or a country, who is supposed to put the benefit of its（主语是his吧?） people at first place. Therefore, whether a politician is effective or not largely depends on how he considers of the public. With respect to the above criteria, it is clear that political leader is required to be skillful in rhetoric.(好像和上一句逻辑关系不连续，因为他认为社会不同，所以需要花言巧语？不如therefore那句不要了) Completely honesty, in other words, fully disclosureof（disclose）certain type of information like national developing plan, valuable intelligence (which is valuable moral)would only result in threatening national security (national security threatening)or even the people's normal lives. Withholding(这个词的意思是扣交。。。作者大概想说保留) is sometime necessary to avoid panic and a kind of protection. Absolutely forthrightness has no difference with naivete and lack of experienced（experience）, both of which might be used by opponents to point out his vulnerability.(这词不错～)

On the other hand (+there) are two compelling arguments implying that honesty plays an important and necessary role in the game of politics. One argument is that political rhetoric doesn't equals to lie. Rhetoric(rhetor) is the art of speaking or writing effectively. Rhetoric skill is only applied to persuade and influence people or to make people convinced, but not misrepresent the fact, in other words, lie. A speech with no rhetorical phrases might not be impressive nor effective. "We need to be optimistic when facing the dropdown of economics." always said by President Bush，which raises the confidence of （the）whole country and to(去掉) avoid the potential panic. "For those who still have doubts that all things are possible, tonight's victory is the answer." said by the president-elect Barack Obama, which make thunderous applause from supporters. No one doubts these two sentences are lie and in fact, they are excellent politician rhetoric.

Secondly, political leader need to have his positive figure among people which requires him to be as honest as possible. Undoubtedly, lack of integrity is much more fatal than lack of experience. A successful politician at least earns people's trust, otherwise the possible end can be forfeit.（can be 和 possible一个意思） For example, Watergate is an American political scandal and constitutional crisis that led to the resignation of President Richard Nixon. In contrast, The second leader of People's Republic of China, Den Xiaopin was known largely as highly effective leader because of his honesty and forthrightness. Without a countervailing measure of integrity, without a trust from public , Politician has no chip to continue playing on the game table.

In sum, political game needs its player to be disingenuous sometime. Yet, The Lucky Godness always turns to the honest side.(结尾我觉得不太好，有点仓促，虽然暗示了一下，但是否应该更为具体些？)
1、语言：我非常不客气，呵呵。看出作者和我一样，语言不太地道，看来我们需要一起努力拉～要多背才好。
2、结构：层次还可以，但是论据不太充分，比如第二段，有点不知所云。
3、论证：还是上一点，有的地方有点牵强。
4、总而言之，作者需要更多的背诵，和我的作文一样需要改进。。。逻辑思路需要清晰些，有些语法的掌握需要改进。
5.再接再厉啊！希望我的修改能对你有所帮助！

robert5050UID: 2478679

issue167 by Tiffany

"It is impossible for an effective political leader to tell the truth all the time. Complete honesty is

not a useful virtue for a politician."

观点：平衡  字数:412论点：政客是无法做到永远说明真相的，在某些情况下，他们也的确需要保留真相，但是诚信仍是政客的基本美德。分论 1.永远说明真相是不可能的,在某些情况下需要保留。     2.但政客不诚实，是会有危险情况发生的。     总结The speaker argues that an effective political leader is impossible to tell the truth all the time and complete honesty is useless for a politician.（阐述题目意思） I tend to agree that politicians hold back the truth in some special occasion, but honesty is a basic and necessary virtue for politician to stand.（回应有力）It’s impossible for normal people always tell the truth, let alone politicians who face so many complex politic affairs that our public cannot imagine. An effective political leader’s decision would affect a political party, even a country. （与前一句因果关系，应该用必要的连接词指出。而不应该模糊）With this responsibility, political leaders have to consider the influence of information about the truth would make, especially in occasion that people easy to get unnecessary fluster.（这里可以当作一个例子，比如国家机密不应该全盘说出，用一个举例的链接词表明） Almost every country has its secret government files, which are relevant to country’s security and society’s stability so that the political leader will not tell the truth when some one asked about them, until files are overdue. In addition, not to tell the truth all the time did not mean lying. In fact politicians are sophisticated at rhetoric, by which they don’t need to lie but avoid giving essential information.（最后还应该重申分论点）However, it turns to be a dangerous situation that political leaders choose to hold back the truth in the conception of “useless honesty”. Sometimes, politicians do this for escaping their own fault. At the beginning of SARS crisis in 2003, some local political leader in China cut the number of infected when they reported it to the above to disguise their breach of duty. Communicate Science tells that the more truths are hidden, the more canards get around. So covering of truth let the public believe the canard that many people suffer to die and that vinegar can defend the virus, which make the public rattled and the price of vinegar sours to several hundred Yuan, hundred times of its original value. What’s more, the law says, the political leaders get the power from the civilian, serve the civilian, so once the truth is revealed some time, it can destroy public trust and the leader’s own political life into debris. Honesty is definitely basic virtue for political leaders.（这里用了和我一样的关于SARS的例子，从开始时隐瞒数字入手的，也就是从不诚实造成的后果入手，其实正如我的那个引用较为片面单一一样，可以正反论证，而且分别写一个小分论点作为举例的服务中心）In sum, political leaders can’t tell the truth all the time, but civilians have the right to know of most political affairs that are tightly related to them. Honesty is a virtue to earn trust, to get support for political leaders.（这个论点上文没有提到，应该删去） Though there are affairs that can’t tell the truth, they act like a white lie to protect the society.

点评：1、读这篇文章时，发现不管是结构，句型、还是用词都很熟悉，看来大众的思维，大众的模板，还是比较容易撞车的。
2、语言：总体较为平淡，没有太闪光的句型。这点我也要注意，以后一定要积累闪光句型。
3、论证：还是略显单薄，分论点较少，而且层中的句子没有逻辑关系，比如因果还有递进。这点问题我也存在。
4、结构：结构完整，总分论点清晰。
5、总而言之，这是和我水平差不多的文章，我仿佛也看到了自己的很多缺点。大家共勉

tiffany2108UID: 2533729

oatsUID: 2248256

非常感谢，可不可以麻烦群主把我加进三月的qq群里面去，我的qq是25829487，我的手机加不了群，谢谢