argument147 欢迎猛拍 留链互拍～～

bluexilegtUID: 2262692

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Argument147
“Although the sales of Whirlwind video games have declined over the past two years, a recent survey of video-game players suggests that this sales trend is about to be reversed. The survey asked video-game players what features they though were most important in a video game. According to the survey, players prefer games that provide lifelike graphics, which require the most up-to-data computers. Whirlwind has just introduced several such games with an extensive advertising campaign directed at people 10 to 25 years old, the age-group most likely to play video games. It follows, then, that the sales of Whirlwind video games are likely to increase dramatically in the next few months.”

提纲：
1 对于这个调查方法和调查人数都没给出，对这个调查表示怀疑
2 一般玩家对这种游戏很感兴趣，不能说明最爱玩游戏的群体也会感兴趣，而且玩家感兴趣，也能形成市场，更不用提公司盈利。
3 就算广告攻势，还要考虑其他市场因素，像消费者的承受能力，游戏的操作性等等。
4 后来竟然提出几个月猛增的说法，似乎没什么依据

The editor reached the conclusion about the product sales of Whirlwind based on a survey and some marketable measure of the company. Otherwise in my view, the prediction is groundless.

First, I think the survey on which the editor’s conclusion partly based is specious. The editor provides no evidence that the size of responders is significant or the responders were representative of all the game players. So it is hard to believe the results of the survey and also even not to suspect the conclusion based on the survey.

Even if I concede that the results of the survey are correct, the editorial supplies no evidences that 10-25 old ones are typical of all the players. It’s possible that they take no interest in the games. And the editorial mentioned that the extensive ad champion directed to the target people, I don’t think ad can surely promote sails, moreover, an extensive ad champion may even make people tired. Even if the ad attracts the target people, we can not safely assume that they will play the new games, they will consider the expenses and the practice feelings, we should not predict the sales of product only by its ad and the potential market, we should consider the price, promotion, place of the products. What’s more, we know the most of the 10-25 players can not earn money themselves, they maybe cant afford the latest computers.

At last, the prediction that increase “dramatically” in “the next few months” is unwarranted, there is no evidences supporting that there will be a dramatic increase and in such a shore time. The editor did not analyze the market, and I thing the prediction is careless.

In sum, the editorial got conclusions depending on a suspicious survey and some assumptions without enough evidences supporting. In my opinion, the editorial reached an unwarranted conclusion.

[ 本帖最后由 bluexilegt 于 2007-2-3 12:33 编辑 ]

asheeUID: 2237370

The editor reached the conclusion about the product sales of Whirlwind based on a survey and some marketable measure of the company. Otherwise in my view, （应直接说出 the argument is weak and）the prediction is groundless.First, I think the (result of) the survey on which the editor’s conclusion partly based is specious. The editor provides no evidence that the size of responders (respondents) is significant or the responders were (are )representative of all the game players. （最好举个例子说明一下）So it is hard to believe the results of the survey and also even not to suspect the conclusion based on the survey. (有点绕，后一句说and even to further believe the conclusion drawn based on the survey 就可以了，双重否定在这里没有必要)

Even if I concede that the results of the survey are correct, the editorial supplies no evidences（evidence 不可数） that 10-25 old ones are typical of all the players. It’s possible that they take no interest in the games.（不够彻底，原文中已经说到10－25是最容易玩游戏的年龄段，这并没有什么好反驳的，因此说玩家群集中，比较能体现整体玩家的意愿也不是不可以的。应注意的一点就是有可能survey针对的不是这一年龄段的玩家，因此即使survey结果成立，这些游戏也不一定受10－25岁的玩家欢迎） And the editorial mentioned that the extensive ad champion （is）directed to the target people, I don’t think ad can surely promote sales(不见得吧，如果ad不能促销那他们也没有存在的必要了，攻击这一点不大好), moreover, an extensive ad champion may even make people tired（也不大合适，这里关键不是extensive的问题）. Even if the ad attracts the target people, we can not safely assume that they will play the new games, they will consider the expenses and the practice feelings（这里应该可以深入一下，比如玩家除了关注画面和机器配置以外可能更喜欢同时拥有更精彩剧情，复杂设计的游戏只说practicing feeling太笼统）, we should not predict the sales of product only by its ad and the potential market, we should consider the price, promotion, place of the products（什么意思？）（这里还是欠具体分析）. What’s more, we know most of the 10-25 players can not earn money themselves, they may cant afford the latest computers. （这一段有点混杂不清，最好把10－25岁玩家不一定被吸引和W不一定盈利两部分分开写）

At last, the prediction that increase “dramatically” in “the next few months” is unwarranted, there is no evidences supporting that there will be a dramatic increase and in such a short time(依然少分析，为什么不会短时间内获利？). The editor did not analyze the market, and I think the prediction is careless.

In sum, the editorial got conclusions depending on a suspicious survey and some assumptions without enough evidences supporting. In my opinion, the editorial reached an unwarranted conclusion.（最后一段应提出改善方法，这很重要）

总的来说，阁下的主要问题是批判逻辑错误时缺乏有效的深入分析，另外有一些攻击点也不是特别好，其实这篇文章的攻击点可以算上是不少的。
一个小小的建议，文章中最好少用第一人称的代词，比如I we之类的，这样会使文章不够客观。
另外阁下的语言还是有一定基础的，有潜力进一步提高
本人不才，所说之处如有不妥请支出，大家互相交流，共同进步。

[ 本帖最后由 ashee 于 2007-2-3 13:30 编辑 ]

brianzwbUID: 2204043

The editor reached the conclusion about the product sales of Whirlwind based on a survey and some marketable measure of the company. Otherwise in my view, the prediction is groundless.

First, I think the survey on which the editor’s conclusion partly based is specious. The editor provides no evidence that the size(可能用number更好吧？） of responders is significant or the responders were representative of all the game players. So it is hard to believe the results of the survey and also even not to suspect the conclusion based on the survey.（感觉对于survey的攻击可以更丰富一点，仅仅对于参加survey的人数进行攻击显得比较平常）

Even if I concede that the results of the survey are correct（reliable好象更好一些？）, the editorial supplies no evidences that 10-25 old ones are typical of all the players. It’s possible that they take no interest in the games. And the editorial mentioned that the extensive ad champion directed to the target people, （这里应该是另外一句话了）I don’t think ad can surely promote sails(sale), moreover, an extensive ad champion may even make people tired. Even if the ad attracts the target people, we can not safely assume that they will play the new games, they will consider the expenses and the practice feelings, we should not predict the sales of product only by its ad and the potential market, we should consider the price, promotion, place of the products. (这个句子里主语太多了，几个we和they线的句子不通顺)What’s more, we know the most of the 10-25 players can not earn money themselves, they maybe cant(may not be able to) afford the latest(most up-to-date) computers.

At last, the prediction that increase “dramatically” in “the next few months” is unwarranted, there is no evidences supporting that there will be a dramatic increase and in such a shore time. (这句话显得太笼统了，并没有针对哪一点进行具体的攻击）The editor did not analyze the market, and I thing the prediction is careless.

In sum, the editorial got conclusions depending on a suspicious survey and some assumptions without enough evidences supporting. In my opinion, the editorial reached an unwarranted conclusion.

我也是新人，这些意见并不一定正确，请不要介意……
比较同意楼上的第一点分析，就是攻击不够深入，大多数时候只是点到而止，并没有进行展开，说服性不太充分，另外有的句子应该考虑使用从句或一些其它的句型，或直接断成短句，比如第三段中的两个句子都是，一个句子里面出现了几个主语，不是很流畅
也邀请楼主来拍我的argument 147,谢谢:handshake
http://bbs.gter.ce.cn/bbs/thread-603127-1-1.html

[ 本帖最后由 brianzwb 于 2007-2-3 14:54 编辑 ]

bluexilegtUID: 2262692

原帖由 ashee 于 2007-2-3 13:27 发表
The editor reached the conclusion about the product sales of Whirlwind based on a survey and some marketable measure of the company. Otherwise in my view, （应直接说出 the argument is weak and）t ...

非常感谢！！！巨巨大的帮助。对于ashee大哥的看法我大部分都脸红着接受，不过有一个小问题。
（不够彻底，原文中已经说到10－25是最容易玩游戏的年龄段，这并没有什么好反驳的，因此说玩家群集中，比较能体现整体玩家的意愿也不是不可以的。应注意的一点就是有可能survey针对的不是这一年龄段的玩家，因此即使survey结果成立，这些游戏也不一定受10－25岁的玩家欢迎）我的本意就是这个意思，可能用词没用好，结果意思表达错了。
再次感谢ashee大哥的建议，受益匪浅啊！

bluexilegtUID: 2262692

原帖由 brianzwb 于 2007-2-3 14:51 发表
The editor reached the conclusion about the product sales of Whirlwind based on a survey and some marketable measure of the company. Otherwise in my view, the prediction is groundless.

First,  ...

十分感谢挤时间帮忙拍我！！
没有深入分析的问题大家都提到了，觉得大家的宝贵意见有时候自己本来一个人可能要琢磨很久才会悟到，谢谢大家！我一定努力改正。

你讲的我都会练习改进的。再次感谢！！恩，还有，马上就去你那学习着。

[ 本帖最后由 bluexilegt 于 2007-2-3 19:36 编辑 ]