Argument145［义无返顾］第二十六次作业

hzyj0322UID: 2155800

A new study collected data that shows that people who snore are more likely to gain weight than are people who do not snore. It is well known that many people who snore also stop breathing frequently during the night for a few seconds, a condition called sleep apnea. The interruption of breathing wakes the person—often so briefly that the waking goes unnoticed—and can leave the person too tired during the day to exercise. Anyone who snores, therefore, should try to eat less than the average person and to exercise more.
提纲：

１数据模糊，只说“很多”，没说到底有多少人，多大比例的人有呼吸障碍
２大呼噜与累之间的关系没说清楚，或许不是因为呼吸障碍，可能是由于别的原因，比如人劳累就容易打鼾，而而可能是由于前一天劳累过度，导致第二天还累
３　减肥和打鼾的关系模糊，上面只说了打鼾会增加体重，没说减肥会减少打鼾，
并且减肥的方式因人而异，不该只是少吃多运动


In this argument, the arguer concludes that in order to snore less or stop snoring, people should take less food than average and do more exercise. To support his conclusion, the arguer points out that the result of a recent study reveals that people who snore generally more likely to become fatter than people who do not snore, as well, many snoring ones suffer a sleep apnea that may wake them without any notice. And this sleep apnea will make these people quite tired the next day and can not do more exercise . A careful examination of this argument would reveal how groundless this conclusion is.

First of all,  the arguer does not provide how many people who snore at night suffer sleep apnea. The word 'many' in this argument seems so vague to support the arguer's point of view. There may be one thousand people  who are suffering sleep apnea when snoring while ten million people snoring while sleeping.  The proportion is so small that sleep apnea would not be considered seriously.

In addition, even if most of the snoring people stop breathing frequently during night for seconds, the arguer can not conclude that this will make the them too tired to exercise. Therea may be some other reasons make them tired rather than apnea.  For example, generally a tired man will snore at night while if they are not recovered they may feel tired the next day.  The arguer fail to establish a close relationship between apnea and the state of tired. Moreover, some other factors can also make people tired, for example their physical condition, or their habit of sleeping. Without knowing these certain  extent reasons causing tiredness and the definite relationship between snoring and tiredness ,we cannot accept the arguer's conclusion

Finally, the arguer gives a suggestion to reduce snoring, he recommended to eat less and do more exercise. For one thing, fatness is not definitely proved as the main reason for snoring, as it is referred in the argument we just get to know that people who snore are easily gain weight. If people eat less and exercise they may lose weight, well, these snoring people will soon regain these lost weight through snoring, according to what has been said from the arguer. Thus losing weight is not a effective method to stop snoring. Even if losing weight can stop snoring, eat less and doing more exercise may not fit for all people, for each people has different physical condition, a healthy people needs a strong body not just a simply losing weight, which may cause illness. Eat less may contribute to malnutrition and too much more exercise will also harmful to health.

In conclusion, the arguer fails to establish a causal relationship between weight and snoring, apnea and tiredness. Additionally, the arguer should provide these evidence to rule out all the above mentioned that might weaken the argument.

[ 本帖最后由 hzyj0322 于 2006-6-17 09:54 编辑 ]

empyrealUID: 2220816

把题目敲上来吧

expire7UID: 2160574

标题格式发错了，请按照格式要求发。不然斑竹会删。

shan_yfUID: 2182345

提纲：---
study不具有代表性（该地区人普遍发胖），而且snore也不一定导致gain weight（饮食习惯）；
没有理由证明apnea引起tired（工作压力，生活环境）；
少吃和多练不一定对snore有效（心理和药物疗法），而且too tired怎么能多锻炼。

In this argument snoring ones should attempt to decline their food consumption and take more physical activities according to the author's recommendation. And the author reaches the conclusion on the basis of a new study that asserts a relationship between snoring and weight increasing. Furthermore, a tiring phenomenon because of the breathing interruption is cited to recommend more exercise for anyone who snores. Careful examination of these supporting evidences, however, reveals several logical flaws listed as follows.

To begin with, the study is too vague to be informative. Whether the respondents can represent all snoring people is not guaranteed. Perhaps, the study chooses a special district where overweight phenomena are more popular than other regions. Namely, the average weights of citizens living in the district are far above the national norms. Then the statistic rarely reflects the whole situation of snoring ones. Even assuming the study is valid, some distinct aspects, for instance, the physical genes and the eating customs also exert an influence of weight increment. It is likely that the mayor food supply is rich in energy, thus and, more fat is absorbed by people who snore. Hence, the above-mentioned scenarios, if true, render the study weak evidence for the conclusion.

In addition, the author unfairly assumes that snoring accounts for the tiredness. No sufficient evidences are provided to strengthen this causal relationship. On one hand, common sense indicates that occupation stresses due to unemployment crisis can lead to a tiring trend. When positions require additional working time frequently, workers cannot obtain adequate relaxation. They still feel too exhausted to exercise regardless of the snoring. On the other hand, there is no denying that the living environment may cause lack of rest. Noise is a significant factor, if serious near an air port or railway, which leaves the person tired. In short, this causal relationship is ungrounded only relying on the author's assumption.

Finally, the author makes a sweeping generalization about the suggestion that effectively solves this problem. It is possible that to eat less and exercise more will not improve the physical condition of snoring people.  Some treatments, such as the psychology method and drug method, are more proper to relieve this state of illness. Granted that the author's advice is effective, it is a contradiction to ask extreme exhausted people who snore to participate in activities like running, swimming and playing football. Consequently, the author should consider all factors rather than only judge from a single one.

To sum up, this argument is unacceptable as it stands. To better evaluate the assertion, the author should provide reliable statistic in a representative study. At the same time, a comprehensive analysis is equally indispensable, after all, the problem of people who snore is rather complex.

yuviUID: 2169411

提綱：
1．        Study的質疑：從醫學角度考慮，肥胖的人本身比正常人更容易打鼾。（因此作者說打鼾的人容易長胖有本末倒置的嫌疑。我在網上找了篇文章，如下）
2．        因爲打鼾而引起白天疲憊從而缺乏鍛煉的質疑：
a)        每個人生活方式不同，不能一概而論的認爲疲憊便不會去鍛煉
b)        生活中還有很多別的方式比睡眠不足更容易引起疲憊（這裡不知道是不是拍跑題了。）>。< ~~~
3．        打鼾要少吃多鍛煉的質疑：
a)        個人身體差異，肥胖有多種導因
b)        也要考虑有人打鼾卻並不肥胖


In this argument, the author claims that people who snore are more likely to gain weight than those people who do not snore, and therefore he suggests anyone who snore should eat less and exercise more than the average person. To support his contention, the author provides a recent study, however, I found this argument suffers from a series of logical problems and is wholly unpersuasive.

To begin with, the study cites from the author, which lacks credibility to make people convince. From a medical perspective, snoring is not the major cause for obesity, besides, people who getting fat problems are more likely to snore while they sleep than the average level. Common sense informs us that the throat structure of obese person is normally narrow than others, and therefore caused the sleep apnea highly while he or she breathing when they sleeping. In this sense, the author's contention which basically based on the study that people who snore are more likely getting fat is fallacious, and in fact, the author inverts the cause and effect between obesity and snoring.

In the second place, the author absents evidence to show the relationship between the tiredness caused by sleep apnea during the daytime and the obesity caused by lacking exercise. On one hand, everyone got different life-styles, to simply assert that people who tried and then not going to do the exercise cannot be justifiably conclude. On the other hand, to what extent, the snoring affects the tiredness for obesity that does not rule out by the author. Perhaps, the tiredness caused by snoring only take a small responsibility for people who lacking exercise, and all the other reasons, such like the stress from working and study are highly possible to cause the tiredness much than sleep apnea over night time. In short, this reference is also fallacious, at least without evidence to support it.

Last but not least, the author's conclusion for people who snore should try to eat less and exercise more also suffers from fallacies. As we all know, there are many causes for people getting fat. Someone was born in obesity, and someone obese by the unhealthy eating habits. Different types of fat should be distinguished case by case, to simply content that all the obesities should eat less and exercise more cannot take seriously as it stands. Moreover, some people who snore but do not have fat problems, and it is obvious no need for those people to eat less and do the exercise as well. Fails to consider these or other possibilities, the author's argument is essentially moot in the case here.

To sum up, the author's conclusion about people who snore should eat less and exercise more than average person is poorly supported. To strengthen it, the author needs to provide evidence about snoring that do take responsibility for the obesity. Further, to better assess, we also need to know the relationship between the sleep apnea and the tiredness for what extent can cause the obesity.  

(502 words)


全文:　　鼾声，是指睡眠时呼吸不畅，气流振动上呼吸道所发出的“呼噜”声。成年男子中打鼾的发生率很高。有人统计，人群中每8个人就有1个人睡觉时打鼾，尤其是肥胖的中老年人发生率更高。
　　中老年人肥胖，主要是因为剧烈活动减少，而进食的营养物质不减，造成了消耗量减少而摄入的营养相对地增多。肥胖的人，其咽壁肥厚、软腭肥大、悬雍垂粗大、舌体增宽、咽腔狭小。故睡眠时咽肌松弛、软腭塌陷、舌体后坠，使气道受阻、呼吸不畅而发生鼾声。这也是中老年人生理功能减退的一种表现。我国东汉时期的医学家张仲景就发现鼾声与肥胖有关，指出“身重，多眠睡，鼻息必鼾”。轻度鼾声不影响睡眠和健康，中、重度鼾声可对人体健康构成严重的危害。因此，中老年期出现打鼾一定要引起重视，要注意减肥，保持中老年人适宜的体重，应从生活起居、控制饮食、中药治疗等方面着手防治肥胖。

yuviUID: 2169411

kitty也发了个帖子,地址如下:https://bbs.gter.net/viewthre ... &extra=page%3D1

第26次作业互改顺序:

yuvi--->hzyj0322 -->shan_yf--->ginny-->kitty--->yuvi

hzyj0322UID: 2155800

这篇好难啊，逻辑思维极度混乱,不知道大家有没这感觉啊,
标题该怎么改啊,怎么也看不出有错~~

芹菜改我这篇一定会受苦的，我写了将近一个小时,自己改一遍先

[ 本帖最后由 hzyj0322 于 2006-6-17 09:31 编辑 ]

yuviUID: 2169411

yuvi--->hzyj0322

In this argument, the arguer concludes that in order to snore less or stop snoring(汗,题目的意思并不是说要阻止人们打鼾,而是说打鼾的人更容易肥胖,所以才建议他们少吃多运动..), people should take less food than average and should do more exercise. To support his conclusion, the arguer point out that the result of a recent study reveals that people who snore are generally fatter than people who do not snore, as well, many snoring ones suffer a sleep apnea (这里再汗一下,打鼾的医学名称就是”睡眠阻碍症”)that may wake them without any notice. And this sleep apnea will make these people quite tired the next day and do not do exercise more. A careful examination of this argument would reveal how groundless this conclusion is.(觉得开头有点拖沓了,而且出现了两个误解题目的地方,感觉花这么笔墨有点得不偿失喔..最好能改简洁一点..J)

First of all,  the arguer does not provide how many people who snore at night suffer sleep apnea. The word ?many? (这里是乱码,我看不到..>.<) in this argument seems so vague to support the arguer's point of view. There may be one thousand people  who are suffering sleep apnea when snoring while ten million people snoring when sleeping.(..ft. sleep apnea是snore的另外的说法,也只是题目里的前提条件,这样吹毛求疵的找两者之间的联系是不是太牵强了一点??)  The proportion is so small that sleep apnea would not be considered seriously.(第1个观点抛却论点我不能接受之外,而且字数所占全文的比例太少了---照理说第一个观点应该拍最为紧要的错误,花的笔墨也应该比较多的.但是你的开头段居然比这个主观点还要多,应该注意下喔..)

In addition, even if most of the snoring people stop breathing frequently during night for seconds, the arguer can not conclude that this will make the them too tired to exercise. Perhaps there are some other reasons make them tired rather than waking for seconds several times during sleep, and there may be some other factors that make them snore and also make them tired the next day.(第2个观点到这里逻辑都很好) For example, generally a tired man will snore at night while if they are not recovered they may feel tired the next day. (这是个什么例子??只是个general speaking吧?呵呵~~) The arguer fail(fails) to establish a close relationship between apnea and the state of tired. Moreover, there may be other factors make people tired, for example their physical condition, or their habit of sleeping. Without knowing these certain  extent reason for tiredness and the definite relationship between snoring and tiredness ,we cannot accept the arguer's conclusion(恩,大体上看这段逻辑不错)

Finally, the arguer give(gives) a suggestion to reduce snoring, he recommended to eat less and do more exercise. For one thing, fatness is not definitely defined (这两个词连用不觉得有点拗口么??) as the main reason for snoring, as it is referred in the argument we just get to know that (过于口语化) people who snore are easily gain weight. (太饶口了,表达不够正式.所以这句有点不必要出现.)If people eat less and exercise they may be lose weight(这里是chinglish的表达), well, (韩小king同学,你在考口语吗??怎么可以在学术文章里出现WELL???这样的转折词?? 在这里用这样的语气词显得你的观点非常主观而且不够成熟. but, however, nevertheless, although, yet, unless…而且书面转折词有很多阿..)these snoring people will soon regain these lost weight through snoring, according to what has been said from the arguer(还要回去看出题人说了什么??读者已经在这里被饶晕了哈). Thus losing weight is not a (an)effective method to stop snoring.(第2次会错题目的意思,是要打鼾的人减肥,而不是要阻止他们打鼾) Even if losing weight can stop snoring, eat less and doing more exercise may not fit (用词不当,根据你的语境suitable可能会好一些) for all people, for each people has different physical condition, a healthy people need a strong body not just a simply losing weight, which may cause illness. Eat less may cause lacking of nutrition and do too much more exercise will also bad to health.(最后一句结尾欠缺完善的逻辑,人们吃得少不代表营养吸收得少,均衡搭配或者吃维生素药丸等等…过度训练也over simplified 题目的意思了哈.所以我觉得这一段有些牵强)

In conclusion, the arguer fails to establish a causal relationship between weight and snoring, apnea and tiredness. Additionally, the arguer should provide these evidence to rule out all the above mentioned that might weaken the argument. (结尾很笼统,但是在考场应急的情况下应该不错~~)

总结:

第1次改韩小king同学的作业哈,如果下手太重请见谅..呵呵,如果我有说错的地方,也请你及时指正哈~~J
总的来说,我觉得你对argument的思路把握还不错,但是有几个问题特别明显:
1.        对于题目的误解. (本题说的是打鼾的人更容易长胖所以要少吃多锻炼-à目的是让他们减肥,而不是阻止他们打鼾.) 建议考试之前把所有题目的中文翻译过一遍-à做到每题把握题目大意,避免考场上出现这样的曲解.
2.        同样的一些对于题目小地方的理解,比如打鼾(snore)的医学名称就是’sleep apnea’,你用原题前提条件给专门列了一个论点来反驳,我觉得间接地暴露了自己的思维漏洞,而且很明显地,给我们这些读者.有些argument的题目大的环境是不被建议反驳的,gter以前有位牛人imong专门写了关于此的帖子,建议去看一下哈: https://bbs.gter.net/viewthre ... &extra=page%3D3
3.        其他还有一些小的表达方面和语法等问题,呵呵.不过相信你多写几次肯定不会有大碍的.因为总体来说行文比较流畅,加油..^_^

hzyj0322UID: 2155800

我来改棒棒糖的


In this argument snoring ones should attempt to decline their food consumption and take more physical activities according to the author's recommendation. And the author reaches the conclusion on the basis of a new study that asserts a relationship between snoring and weight increasing. Furthermore, a tiring phenomenon because of the breathing interruption is cited to recommend more exercise for anyone who snores. Careful examination of these supporting evidences, however, reveals several logical flaws listed as follows.[可比我写的好多了，同意词替换很的弓虽]

To begin with, the study is too vague to be informative. Whether the respondents can represent all snoring people is not guaranteed. Perhaps, the study chooses a special district where overweight phenomena are more popular than other regions. Namely, the average weights of citizens living in the district are far above the national norms. Then the statistic rarely reflects the whole situation of snoring ones. Even assuming the study is valid, some distinct aspects, for instance, the physical genes and the eating customs also exert an influence of weight increment. It is likely that the []mayor food supply is rich in energy, thus and, more fat is absorbed by people who snore. Hence, the above-mentioned scenarios, if true, render the study weak evidence for the conclusion.

In addition, the author unfairly assumes that snoring accounts for the tiredness. No sufficient evidences are provided to strengthen this causal relationship. On one hand, common sense indicates that occupation stresses due to unemployment crisis can lead to a tiring trend. When positions require additional working time frequently, workers cannot obtain adequate relaxation. They still feel too exhausted to exercise regardless of the snoring. On the other hand, there is no denying that the living environment may cause lack of rest. Noise is a significant factor, if serious near an air port or railway, which leaves the person tired. In short, this causal relationship is ungrounded only relying on the author's assumption.[中间多加点连词和副词就好了，把语气再缓和一下，多推测，少判断]

Finally, the author makes a sweeping generalization about the suggestion that effectively solves this problem. It is possible that to eat less and exercise more will not improve the physical condition of snoring people.  Some treatments, such as the psychology method and drug method, are more proper to relieve this state of illness. Granted that the author's advice is effective, it is a contradiction to ask extreme exhausted people who snore to participate in activities like running, swimming and playing football.[这里可以展开说一些，感觉话说了一半] Consequently, the author should consider all factors rather than only judge from a single one.

To sum up, this argument is unacceptable as it stands. To better evaluate the assertion, the author should provide reliable statistic in a representative study. At the same time, a comprehensive analysis is equally indispensable, after all, the problem of people who snore is rather complex.

PS[论证清晰，错误抓的也准，只是第一个错误的第一方面有点偏，个人感觉写‘many’的模糊性比写地区更有力。继续努力~~

yuviUID: 2169411

原帖由 hzyj0322 于 2006-6-17 09:27 发表
这篇好难啊，逻辑思维极度混乱,不知道大家有没这感觉啊,
标题该怎么改啊,怎么也看不出有错~~

芹菜改我这篇一定会受苦的，我写了将近一个小时,自己改一遍先

呵呵~~我动作比你快,已经改好了~~
恩,自己再改一遍也很有必要,毕竟多改才能进步嘛~~:)

这篇的确有点小难,因为错误不像别的argument那样明显.
但是argument里还有更bt的题目~~>.<~

BTW,标题可能是因为argument145 和后面的［义无返顾］第二十六次作业 之间没有空格吧~~:(
还有你加入我们的QQ群吧~~24184543,
以后发帖子可以先去群里面通知一下大家,就不会出现作业贴重复的情况了哈~~:)

hzyj0322UID: 2155800

感谢芹菜的修改,行动可够快的,题目真是没弄懂,而且写了半天自己都不知道自己再说些什么,还在这Argue,汗啊~~

上帝啊，别让我抽到这么变态的题目~~,阿狗都这样可让我怎么活啊
从现在开始攒人品~~~

[ 本帖最后由 hzyj0322 于 2006-6-17 10:22 编辑 ]

yuviUID: 2169411

晕倒,,呵呵.
不过BT的题目还是要准备一下的~~有备无患~~:)

shan_yfUID: 2182345

改作文 棒棒糖——>ginny-mm

In this argument, the arguer recommends that people who snore should try to eat less and exercise more than others. At the first glance, it seems to be reasonable, however, after a careful examination, we find that the arguer's conclusion is based on some uncertain evidences (可以直接指出是study 和 assumption 掩盖“模版”痕迹)and even his/her conclusion itself, judging with common sense(也可以用什么医学研究来代替common sense ，感觉还是具体的东西有说服力), is unbelievable.

First of all, when comes to the new study, I find that the information it provides to us is something meaningless and uncertain. First, I want to know how the study conducts the conclusion that snoring people are easier to gain weight than other people. We are not told any information about the effective experiments or researches for this study, so the study and its conclusion are all suspectable. Second, as the arguer says snore people are "more likely" to gain weight, I cannot help to asking what does "more likely" mean and what is the extent about "more likely"; (对含糊程度词的批判 很到位 但是这个数据比例有点夸张 有点百里挑一 呵呵)is among hundreds of people only one or two likely to gain weight or are people who are only senior citizens consisted to? Without providing more information and answering these questions clearly, the arguer cannot convince us.(个人认为在驳论文中还是应该尽量避免 I 的出现，ginny-mm可以考虑用名词做主语 动名词结构 被动语态 等)

In addition, when comes to the arguer's another one evidence(和上文重复 变换一下的好) : sleep apnea interrupts the snore persons and makes them too tired during the day to exercise, we still have several doubtful points to ask the arguer to rule out. First, the same as the study, we are not provided any evidence to convince that the so-called sleep apnea is interruption of our rest and sleep indeed. So,  it is entire properly to make us to suspect that sleep apnea is good for our rest and sleep, for the common sense tells us that usually after a heavy work or sports, we are likely to snore at night, which makes us relax and recover the energy in the next morning. Second, even if sleep apnea influence the snore people, without any clear evidence, the arguer cannot say it can leave the person too tired during the day to exercise. It is entire possible that the influence from sleep apnea is also so tiny that we cannot noticed as its interruption.(这个攻击点有点不好展开，和这个BT难题也有关系，snore对人有没有影响和是否有益我个人不推荐，还是应该从 causeal关系上入手  嘻嘻 这个我也没把握)

Finally, even if snoring could make people gain weight and influence the quality of sleeping, we also could not agree with the arguer's suggestion that snoring people should eat less and excise more. As the arguer says for the interruption of snoring, people may feel tired in the day, if just doing as the arguer suggests, I think it is not good for the people's health; exercising more and eating less may aggravate the feeling of tired. Therefore, it is wise for them to try other methods such as increasing the quality of sleep, taking medicine for snoring and spending more time on sleep.(论证角度很好  一些说法上建议不说disagree这样的语言 改为指出arg的从作者范的错误)

To sum up, in the argument we nearly could not find one quite clearly and certainly causal relationship, so he/she should collect more and reconsider his/ her conclusion to convince us.(可以稍带笔墨说说 题目中现有证据该如何改进)

ginny-mm的写作思路还是很清晰的，感觉可以就某个问题说明的时候能稍微具体点，说说引起这个conclusion的其他原因，以上全是个人意见，欢迎一起讨论         水平有限 :)

对这个题目的写作我自己也没什么把握 建议yuvi mm把大家的攻击点汇总一下，看看能不能找出 比较有说服力的