issue88 科技决定社会习俗 以及对galaxysong版本的疑问

starshaneUID: 2616355

TOPIC: ISSUE88 - "Technologies not only influence but actually determine social customs and ethics."
WORDS: 329
TIME: 00:45:00
DATE: 2010/3/30 23:57:27

I partially agree with the speaker that technologies influence social customs and ethics, maybe in a rather significant degree. But as far as I am concerned, they have not yet attained the power to determine customs and ethics if “determine” means “create and define”. Some social customs and ethics are so deeply rooted in our culture and tradition that they are almost unaffected by the development of technologies, yet others are just represented by modern technologies in a new way.
                                 
实在不知如何定义influence 和determine……

先让步，科技有时的确改变了社会习俗道德观念，例女飞行员
Admittedly, some social customs and ethics have changed along with technologies which are updating by every passing minute. With the benefit and convenience they bring, technologies reformed customs and ethics by making life easier and faster. Take the case of women’s career choice as example. For a long period in history women were prohibited to pursuit certain careers, such as pilots and astronauts, because of conventional social prejudice. Nevertheless, thanks to the development of technologies that reduced the burden of works which require lots of skill and labor, the past decades witnessed the rise of female pilots, astronauts and such. In this sense, technologies do have influenced social customs and ethics.

但深层次的社会道德观念啥的很难改变。比如有女飞行员，但性别歧视仍然存在
例子，
无关科技发展，偷窥别人隐私都是有悖社会道德法律的
社会习俗方面，中秋吃月饼
      
However, it must be pointed out that changes in social customs and ethics mentioned above are somehow superficial. Technologies cannot determine established social customs and ethics which have endured the test of time and are wildly accepted. Social customs and ethics, good or bad, are engendered from tradition, culture, religion and such that are almost indelible. That explains why we may have a few female pilots now, but sexual discrimination still prevails in many aspects. Another example of social ethics is about privacy, which has always been treasured as one of the most important human rights. Any intruding on private space is considered impolite, even illegal. Nowadays although communication technologies can help to peep other people's privacy, the society fiercely contemn such conducts and measure have been taken to prevent technologies be used in immoral way. Established social customers are more difficult to be determined. Our Chinese enjoyed the mid-autumn's day, August 5th on the lunar calendar, with the company of families and a special dissert-- the moon cake. No matter how cooking techniques and equipment have changed, the making of moon cakes stayed largely the same as hundreds of years ago.

科技做的多半是改变了社会习俗的呈现方式，电生日蜡烛、电子贺卡
More often or not, technologies influence social customs and ethics simply by represent them in a modern way. For instance, people would like to have birthday cakes on their birthday party--with lovely wax candles on top. Now we still have candles, but not ones that made of wax. People prefer electronic candle because it is safer and more convenient. Some special electronic candles can even sing a birthday theme for the host. Yet the point I want to make is—people still need candles. Likewise many paper-made postcards are replaced by email postcards, but the custom of sending “postcards” has been preserved.


所以说科技“决定”社会习俗道德太武断了
In sum, technologies go no further than influencing social customs and representing them, nor do technologies have the power to shake the basis of some social ethics. Therefore it is far too assertive to say that technologies determine social customs and ethics.

自我的反省就是给determine的定义不是很明确，我理解是它“决定习俗存不存在”，因此反驳说它只是影响“习俗改没改变”……


看了以前精华区有一篇falaxysong的，倒是对determine做了定义，但其实他是模糊了定义
而且感觉他对“social customs”的理解有误
把什么国家制度  民族精神写成 社会传统……觉得有点扯淡
更扯淡的是斑竹的评语……

帖子如下
https://bbs.gter.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=165694&fpage=1&highlight=issue88

个人理解social customs还是偏重具体的实质上的，风俗习惯

求拍！

chen2009zbUID: 2621409

TOPIC: ISSUE88 - "Technologies not only influence but actually determine social customs and ethics."
WORDS: 329
TIME: 00:45:00
DATE: 2010/3/30 23:57:27

I partially agree with the speaker that technologies influence social customs and ethics, maybe to a rather significant degree. But as far as I am concerned, they have not yet attained the power to determine customs and ethics if “determine” means “create and define”. Some social customs and ethics are so deeply rooted in our culture and tradition that they are almost unaffected by the development of technologies, yet others are just represented by modern technologies in a new way. 最后一句如何理解yet？
                                 
实在不知如何定义influence 和determine……

先让步，科技有时的确改变了社会习俗道德观念，例女飞行员
Admittedly, some social customs and ethics have been changed along with technologies which are updating by every passing minute. With the benefit and convenience they bring, technologies reformed customs and ethics by making life easier and faster 生活更快?. Take the case of women’s career choice for example. For a long period in history women were prohibited to pursuit certain careers, such as pilots and astronauts because of conventional social prejudice. Nevertheless, thanks to the development of technologies that reduced the burden of works which require lots of skill and labor, the past decades witnessed the rise of female pilots, astronauts and such. In this sense, technologies do have influenced social customs and ethics. 工作要求降低了，女人们得以参与到劳动里大军中来，这不更是社会偏见吗（女人不如男人capable of taking these jobs？）？My suggestion: you could discuss on the viewpoint of role of technology improvement in stimulating demands of labor. 技术进步增加了对劳动力的需求，仅仅男人不够用了。

但深层次的社会道德观念啥的很难改变。比如有女飞行员，但性别歧视仍然存在
例子，
无关科技发展，偷窥别人隐私都是有悖社会道德法律的
社会习俗方面，中秋吃月饼
      
However, it must be pointed out that changes in social customs and ethics mentioned above are somehow superficial. Technologies cannot determine established social customs and ethics which have endured the test of time and are wildly accepted. Social customs and ethics, good or bad,产生于传统，主动时态吧？ are engendered from tradition, culture, religion and such that are almost indelible. That explains why we may have a few female pilots now, but sexual discrimination still prevails in many aspects. 这句话似乎没有转折的意思，可以用even worse表示递进取代but. 后面进一步论述一下如何prevalent就好了，比如中国的男女退休年龄、中亚地区妇女不能参与重要的社会活动、世界上女性政治领导人很少等等。Another example of social ethics is about privacy, which has always been treasured as one of the most important human rights. Any intruding invasion可能比较好 on private space is considered as rude impolite, even illegal. Nowadays although communication technologies can help to peep at other people's privacy 换个词吧intimacy, the society fiercely contemn such conducts and measures have been taken to prevent technologies from being used in immoral way. Established social customers are more difficult to be determined. Our Chinese enjoyed the mid-autumn's day, August 5th on the lunar calendar, with the company of families and a special dissert-- the moon cake. No matter how cooking techniques and equipment have changed, the making of moon cakes stayed largely the same as hundreds of years ago. 第二层次的论述我个人认为衔接的不太好，隐私属于一种社会习俗吗？个人认为social customs and ethics are something special rather than universal. If so, emphasis on privacy is a universial phenomenon shared by people all around the world.

科技做的多半是改变了社会习俗的呈现方式，电生日蜡烛、电子贺卡
More often or not, technologies influence social customs and ethics simply by represent them in a modern way. For instance, people would like to have birthday cakes on their birthday party--with lovely wax candles on the top. Now we still have candles, but not ones that made of wax. People prefer electronic candle because it is safer and more convenient. Some special electronic candles can even sing a birthday theme for the host. Yet the point I want to make is—people still need candles. Likewise many paper-made postcards are replaced by email postcards, but the custom of sending “postcards” has been preserved. 比较看好这段的例子


所以说科技“决定”社会习俗道德太武断了
In sum, technologies go no further than influencing social customs and representing them, nor do technologies have the power to shake the basis of some social ethics. Therefore it is far too assertive to say that technologies determine social customs and ethics. 最后一段建议语气不要那么绝对，who knows that maybe someday some of the ethics would disappear.In practice,  time have clear some social customs indeed in incremental fashion.   

自我的反省就是给determine的定义不是很明确，我理解是它“决定习俗存不存在”，因此反驳说它只是影响“习俗改没改变”……

starshaneUID: 2616355

2# chen2009zb

I partially agree with the speaker that technologies influence social customs and ethics, maybe to
a rather significant degree. But as far as I am concerned, they have not yet attained the power to determine customs and ethics if “determine” means “create and define”. Some social customs and ethics are so deeply rooted in our culture and tradition that they are almost unaffected by the development of technologies, AND others are just represented by modern technologies in a new way.
最后一句如何理解yet？答：作者用错了


实在不知如何定义influence 和determine……
先让步，科技有时的确改变了社会习俗道德观念，例女飞行员
Admittedly, some social customs and ethics have been changed along with technologies which are updating by every passing minute. With the benefit and convenience they bring, technologies reformed customs and ethics by making things easier
生活更快?.
Take the case of women’s career choice for example. For a long period in history women were prohibited to pursuit certain careers, such as teachers and astronauts because of conventional social prejudice. Nevertheless, thanks to the development of technologies that reduced the burden of works which require lots of skill and labor, thus facilitate women to take jobs that emphasize intelligence rather than labor. The past decades witnessed the rise of female engineers, pilots and presidents. In this sense, technologies do have influenced social customs and ethics.

.工作要求降低了，女人们得以参与到劳动里大军中来，这不更是社会偏见吗（女人不如男人capable of taking these jobs？）？My suggestion: you could discuss on the viewpoint of role of technology improvement in stimulating demands of labor. 技术进步增加了对劳动力的需求，仅仅男人不够用了。
角度新颖的！可是说不过去吧，技术进步不是应该取代人力么，也没有证据说男人不够用……只能说减少了labor work， intelligence 有用了


但深层次的社会道德观念啥的很难改变。比如有女飞行员，但性别歧视仍然存在
例子，
无关科技发展，偷窥别人隐私都是有悖社会道德法律的
社会习俗方面，中秋吃月饼


However, it must be pointed out that changes in social customs and ethics mentioned above are somehow superficial. Technologies cannot determine established social customs and ethics which have endured the test of time and are wildly accepted. Social customs and ethics, good or bad, are engendered from tradition, culture, religion and such that are almost indelible. That explains why we may have a few female pilots now, but sexual discrimination still prevails in many aspects. In Iraq which is technologically developed, women are still confined to housework and limited social activities.

这句话似乎没有转折的意思，可以用even worse表示递进取代but. 后面进一步论述一下如何prevalent就好了，比如中国的男女退休年龄、中亚地区妇女不能参与重要的社会活动、世界上女性政治领导人很少等等。
好建议！写的时候主要是考虑到后面还有两个例子，就写少了

Another example of social ethics is about privacy, which has always been treasured as one of the most important human rights. Any intrusion invasion可能比较好 intrusion比较好,真的，专门跟privacy 搭配的，on private space is considered as rude impolite, even illegal. Nowadays although communication technologies can help to peep at other people's privacy 换个词吧intimacy, the society fiercely contemn such conducts and measures have been taken to prevent technologies from being used in immoral way. Established social customers are more difficult to be determined. Our Chinese enjoyed the mid-autumn's day, August 5th on the lunar calendar, with the company of families and a special dissert-- the moon cake. No matter how cooking techniques and equipment have changed, the making of moon cakes stayed largely the same as hundreds of years ago. 第二层次的论述我个人认为衔接的不太好，隐私属于一种社会习俗吗？
个人认为social customs and ethics are something special rather than universal. If so, emphasis on privacy is a universial phenomenon shared by people all around the world.

我理解的“尊重隐私”属于社会道德范畴吧，道德不一定是地方性的吧，
当时考虑到后面写节日的例子就是specific的，所以前面写道德的例子就举个general的
个人认为这样也可以。


科技做的多半是改变了社会习俗的呈现方式，电生日蜡烛、电子贺卡
More often or not, technologies influence social customs and ethics simply by represent them in a modern way. For instance, people would like to have birthday cakes on their birthday party--with lovely wax candles on the top
这里是不要定冠词的.
On top: 在最高处，在顶部，在最上面

a woollen hat with a bobble on top.

顶上带个绒线球的毛线帽。

Now we still have candles, but not ones that made of wax. People prefer electronic candle because it is safer and more convenient. Some special electronic candles can even sing a birthday theme for the host. Yet the point I want to make is—people still need candles. Likewise many paper-made postcards are replaced by email postcards, but the custom of sending “postcards” has been preserved. 比较看好这段的例子

所以说科技“决定”社会习俗道德太武断了
In sum, technologies go no further than influencing social customs and representing them, nor do technologies have the power to shake the basis of some social ethics. Therefore it is far too assertive to say that technologies determine social customs and ethics. 最后一段建议语气不要那么绝对，who knows that maybe someday some of the ethics would disappear. In practice,  time have clear some social customs indeed in incremental fashion.   

其实我最后结论也是模棱两可的，因为我自己没定义好determine
“虽然科技影响习俗，甚至改变了它们的形式，但没有到决定它们的地步”
但照你那样写我观点就整个推翻了……


经过你的点拨我仿佛又清晰了一点！且意见十分中肯~非常感谢！
有需要回拍的尽管贴~！

kevinswenUID: 2678128

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