issue93 优秀习作&讨论（combined by imong）

coolwitsUID: 149150

93 "The concept of 'individual responsibility' is a necessary fiction. Although societies must hold individuals accountable for their own actions, people's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making."
个人责任的概念是一种很必要的虚构。尽管社会必须让个人对他们自己的行为负责，但是人们的行为很大程度上不是自己能够左右的。
1.        不同意
2.        个体责任观点有助于社会的运转
3.        个体责任观点是实在的，有根据的，因为每个人的行为是受他的理性间接或直接支配的。
（1）        分论点1：不论环境多么恶劣，在理性的指导下，人可以作出正确的选择。
（2）        分论点2：那些看上去被环境所决定的非理性行为，实际上是个体主观上放弃了理性的缘故。
文中说分论点1时用汤姆。克鲁斯的《少数派报告》做例子，不知道有没有讲清楚
大家对以电影做例子有什么看法？ets会不会说，电影和生活不一样而毙掉吧？
何况是一部科幻电影，sigh~

coolwitsUID: 149150

The statement above expresses the speaker’s view on the topics whether external forces largely determine people’s behavior and consequently whether the concept of 'individual responsibility' is a necessary fiction that can never be well founded. While perfectly assenting to the indispensability of the concept, I don’t agree to the idea that environmental factors dramatically influence people’s behavior. In my opinion, the concept of 'individual responsibility' is not only a necessity for society, but also a valid concept rather than a fictional one.
        
      The concept of 'individual responsibility' is necessary for the operation of the society. Our society is a complicated one that has been divided into infinite small parts which are interconnected with each other so tight that malfunctions of even several of them can result in negative influence on the whole. While it is really difficult to operate such a huge, complex project, the concept of 'individual responsibility' can be an effective resolvent. In this case, each part consists of several people who are responsible for it, which ensure that the part be under control. With the assistance of collaboration and regulation, the society can be operated smoothly.
      
     Additionally, the concept of 'individual responsibility' is valid because it is people’s senses that dominatingly determine their behavior, directly or indirectly. On one hand, no matter how pushing external forces seem, a person can make sensible decision under the guidance of senses if he wants to. In fact, this idea of “free will” prevailing in American has been shared in many other parts of the world and as far as I concerned, it is a reasonable estimation of power of human being’s senses. Once there was an American film named “reports of minority”, in which the idea of “free will” was well communicated. The hero in the movie, personated by Tom Clocks, was entrapped into a precisely devised trick aiming to induce him to kill somebody. However, just like the oracle in the play said, “you still have choices”, the hero gave up his murder at the last moment though the satisfaction of killing the man who had cruelly drowned his only son seemed irresistible, because he knew that he himself is a policeman, that the man should be punished by law rather than by him, and that justice is more important than personal satisfaction. On the other hand, irrational actions that seem to have mainly been elicited by external factors can always be explained as the consequence of subjective, and usually osmotic, dilution of senses. For example, a rock singer who abandons himself in drugs may claim that so many rock singers take drugs, and it is the environment that has pushed him forward. Such assertion sounds reasonable on the surface, however, if one think critically, he needn’t go too far to find it an excuse. From the Eagles to the Door, to Deep Purple, and to Beyond, there are so many rock stars all round the world, who are singers, who are rock singers, but who are not drug takers. In fact, at the beginning the rock singer thought it needless to keep strict self-discipline before the allurement of drugs, then he had a try, and then he wanted more, in the end he became addicted. Accordingly, it is the rock singer himself who had chosen this endless road, with nobody or nothing having forced him to.
      
      To sum up, the concept of 'individual responsibility' that acts as a necessity for social operation can never be regarded as a fiction. In fact, everyone should be responsible for what he have chosen and done, because neither did anybody ever made the decision for him, nor did anything.

豌豆UID: 144569

The statement above expresses the speaker’s view on the topics whether external forces largely determine people’s behavior and consequently whether the concept of 'individual responsibility' is a necessary fiction that can never be well founded. While perfectly assenting to the indispensability of the concept, I don’t agree to (agree with)the idea that environmental (external 更好一些吧)factors dramatically influence people’s behavior. In my opinion, the concept of 'individual responsibility' is not only a necessity for society, but also a valid concept rather than a fictional one.

The concept of 'individual responsibility' is necessary for the operation of the society. Our society is a complicated one that has been divided into infinite small parts which are interconnected with each other so tight that malfunctions of even several of them can （用may或者直接result in 读上去更通，我读了几遍拉，：-P）result in negative influence on the whole. While it is really difficult to operate such a huge, complex project, the concept of 'individual responsibility' can be an effective resolvent. In this case, each part consists of several people who are responsible for it, which （who）ensure that the part be under control. With the assistance of collaboration and regulation, the society can be operated smoothly.句子写得蛮漂亮，小错误也少，就是论证的时候并没有展开，这一段的主题是为了社会的正常运转，你就从正面阐述了一下，老实讲，确实很难论证清楚，我的意见是从反面？这样可能比较有话说一些，比如没有'individual responsibility' 的话，社会将处于怎么混乱的境地

Additionally, the concept of 'individual responsibility' is valid because it is people’s senses that dominatingly determine their behavior, directly or indirectly. On one hand, no matter how pushing external forces seem,（后面应该加to be吧） a person can make sensible decision under the guidance of senses if he wants to. In fact, this idea of “free will” prevailing in American has been shared in many other parts of the world and as far as I concerned, it is a reasonable estimation of power of human being’s senses. Once there was an American film named “reports of minority”, in which the idea of “free will” was well communicated. The hero in the movie, personated by Tom Clocks, （可能是Cruise，不知道能不能唬的了ets，呵呵）was entrapped into a precisely devised trick aiming to induce him to kill somebody. However, just like the oracle in the play said, “you still have choices”, the hero gave up his murder at the last moment though the satisfaction of killing the man who had cruelly drowned his only son seemed irresistible,  because he knew that he himself is a policeman, that the man should be punished by law rather than by him, and that justice is more important than personal satisfaction. （这两个that是什么从句？跟在什么后面的？没看明白）On the other hand, irrational actions that seem to have mainly been elicited by external factors can always be explained as the consequence of subjective, and usually osmotic, dilution of senses. For example, a rock singer who abandons himself in drugs may claim that so many rock singers take drugs, and it is the environment that has pushed him forward. Such assertion sounds reasonable on the surface, however, if one think critically, he needn’t go too far to find it an excuse. From the Eagles to the Door, to Deep Purple, and to Beyond, there are so many rock stars all round the world, who are singers, who are rock singers, but who are not drug takers. In fact, at the beginning the rock singer thought it needless to keep strict self-discipline before the allurement of drugs, then he had a try, and then he wanted more, in the end he became addicted. Accordingly, it is the rock singer himself who had chosen this endless road, with nobody or nothing having forced him to
这一个例子写得没有前面那个好，用了很多then，and没有上面写的精确了。不知道是什么原因。从论证上来说，也说的通，但不是特别的具有说服力,
To sum up, the concept of 'individual responsibility' that acts as a necessity for social operation can never be regarded as a fiction. In fact, everyone should be responsible for what he have chosen and done, because neither did anybody ever made the decision for him, nor did anything.
总的来说，我觉得你的英语基础应该不错，写的句子也比较好，：）不过这篇文章的论证还是一个值得推敲的问题，且不论那个电影的例子是否合适，换成我的话，会用经典影片来做例子，飘，廊桥遗梦啊，等等，也可以挖掘出'individual responsibility'的内容来。另外，你的第三段实在是太长了，可以考虑一下分成两段，如果还少一个论点，可以考虑一下这样一个论点：外部的力量在某个 程度上也决定了'individual responsibility' ，比如你的职业决定了你有责任去做什么什么，然后可以话锋一转，实际上选一个职业也是由自己决定的，这可以当成一个过度，然后再接下去
这是我的想法，：）
在精华区或者习题库搜搜，木耳的一篇写的特别好，可以拿来开思路

genie05UID: 30358

http://edu.gter.net/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=133386
http://edu.gter.net/bbs/showthread.php?threadid=131521

这两个都不错，楼主可以再搜一下别的。

coolwitsUID: 149150

谢谢豌豆
1。我也觉得第二段展开得不够，我好好补充了一下，也不敢太长，因为本来就显得长了
In this case, every part of society is monitored by finite people, thus it become quite easy to find out the person who should be punished at the presence of malfunctions. Consequently, all people will try their utmost to keep their parts under control and with the assistance of collaboration and regulation, they can operate the society smoothly.
2。摇滚歌手我觉得主要是没写顺，改了半天还是不满意，姑且贴出来
In fact, it is highly possible that at the beginning the rock singer thought it needless to keep strict self-discipline before the allurement of drugs and consequently stepped his first step on this endless road, then he wanted more, in the end he became addicted. in conclusion, It is the rock singer himself who had chosen his road towards death, with nobody or nothing having forced him to.
3. 再加论点的话我觉得不大好，因为本来就很长了，要我删掉第三段一些我又觉得不合适，因为我觉得那儿讨论的是重点。我能否直接将第二个分论点拉下来独立成段？虽然有些不规范，但我也见过拿个例子独立成段的6分文章，何况我们写中文的时候分段不也是比较随意的吗？
想听听大家的看法，深表感谢。

coolwitsUID: 149150

按照我的想法修改了一遍，请大家看看
The statement above expresses the speaker’s view on the topics whether external forces largely determine people’s behavior and consequently whether the concept of 'individual responsibility' is a necessary fiction that can never be well founded. While perfectly assenting to the indispensability of the concept, I don’t agree to the idea that external factors dramatically influence people’s behavior. In my opinion, the concept of 'individual responsibility' is not only a necessity for society, but also a valid concept rather than a fictional one.

The concept of 'individual responsibility' is necessary for the operation of the society. Our society is a complicated one that has been divided into infinite small parts which are interconnected with each other so tight that malfunctions of even several of them may result in negative influence on the whole. While it is really difficult to operate such a huge, complex project, the concept of 'individual responsibility' can be a sensible answer. In this case, every part of society is monitored by finite people, thus it become quite easy to find out the person who should be punished at the presence of malfunctions. Consequently, all people will try their utmost to keep their parts under control and with the assistance of collaboration and regulation, they can operate the society smoothly.

Additionally, the concept of 'individual responsibility' is well-founded because it is people’s senses that dominatingly determines their behavior, directly or indirectly. On one hand, no matter how pushing external forces seem to be, a person can make his decision under the guidance of senses if he wants to. In fact, this idea of “free will” prevailing in American has been shared in many other parts of the world and as far as I concerned, it is reasonable estimation of the power of human being’s senses. Once there was an American film named “reports of minority”, in which the concept of “free will” was well communicated. The hero in the movie, personated by Tom Clocks, was entrapped into a precisely devised trick whose aim is to induce him to kill somebody. However, just like the oracle in the play said, “you still have choices”, the hero gave up his murder at the last moment though the satisfaction of killing the man who had cruelly drowned his single son seemed irresistible, because he knew that he himself is a policeman, that the man should be punished by law rather than by him, and that justice is more important than personal satisfaction.

On the other hand, irrational actions that seem to have mainly been elicited by external factors can always be explained as the consequence of subjective, and usually osmotic, dilution of self-discipline. For example, a rock singer who abandons himself in drugs may claim that so many rock singers take drugs, and it is the environment that has pushed him forward. Such assertion sounds reasonable on the surface, however, if one think critically, he needn’t go too far to find it an excuse. From the Eagles to the Door, to Deep Purple, and to Beyond, there are so many rock stars all round the world, who are singers, who are rock singers, but who are not drug takers. In fact, it is highly possible that at the beginning the rock singer thought it needless to keep strict self-discipline before the allurement of drugs and consequently stepped his first step on this endless road, then he wanted more, in the end he became addicted. In conclusion, It is the rock singer himself who had chosen his road towards death, with nobody or nothing having forced him to.

To sum up, the concept of 'individual responsibility' that acts as a necessity for social operation can never be regarded as a fiction. In fact, everyone should be responsible for what he have chosen and done, because neither did anybody ever made the decision for him, nor did anything.

coolwitsUID: 149150

1. 我在issue93中引用了一部电影做例子，不知道大家对这种例子有什么看法。
照理说：电影在某种程度上是生活的镜子，通过艺术夸张来反映和诠释生活，但ets会不会这么想呢？难道还要向他们解释？就像我引用的《少数派报告》，还是一部科幻电影，难道还要我和ets说，我用来支持自己的那部份并没有科幻成分云云。这样必然会使文章变得冗长。还是干脆就不要用？
2。我在issue93中把第三段写得太长，因为我引出两个分论点然后又分别举例论证。豌豆姐姐建议我要我删掉第三段一些，我又觉得没地方下手。我能否直接将第二个分论点拉下来独立成段？虽然有些不规范，但我们写中文的时候分段不也是比较随意的吗？

我把issue93贴在下面了，大家不必浪费宝贵的时间帮我改，豌豆姐姐和i-sunshine已经帮我改过了。只想听听大家对我的疑惑的的看法，深表感谢。

coolwitsUID: 149150

93 "The concept of 'individual responsibility' is a necessary fiction. Although societies must hold individuals accountable for their own actions, people's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making."
个人责任的概念是一种很必要的虚构。尽管社会必须让个人对他们自己的行为负责，但是人们的行为很大程度上不是自己能够左右的。
1. 不同意
2. 个体责任观点有助于社会的运转
3. 个体责任观点是实在的，有根据的，因为每个人的行为是受他的理性间接或直接支配的。
（1） 分论点1：不论环境多么恶劣，在理性的指导下，人可以作出正确的选择。
（2） 分论点2：那些看上去被环境所决定的非理性行为，实际上是个体主观上放弃了理性的缘故。

The statement above expresses the speaker’s view on the topics whether external forces largely determine people’s behavior and consequently whether the concept of 'individual responsibility' is a necessary fiction that can never be well founded. While perfectly assenting to the indispensability of the concept, I don’t agree to the idea that external factors dramatically influence people’s behavior. In my opinion, the concept of 'individual responsibility' is not only a necessity for society, but also a valid concept rather than a fictional one.

The concept of 'individual responsibility' is necessary for the operation of the society. Our society is a complicated one that has been divided into infinite small parts which are interconnected with each other so tight that malfunctions of even several of them may result in negative influence on the whole. While it is really difficult to operate such a huge, complex project, the concept of 'individual responsibility' can be a sensible answer. In this case, every part of society is monitored by finite people, thus it become easier to find out the person who should be responsible for the presence of malfunctions. Consequently, all people will try their utmost to keep their parts under control and with the assistance of collaboration and regulation, they can operate the society smoothly.

Additionally, the concept of 'individual responsibility' is well-founded because it is people’s senses that dominatingly determines their behavior, directly or indirectly. On one hand, no matter how pushing external forces seem to be, a person can make his decision under the guidance of senses if he wants to. In fact, this idea of “free will” prevailing in American has been shared in many other parts of the world and as far as I concerned, it is reasonable estimation of the power of human being’s senses. Once there was an American film named “reports of minority”, in which the concept of “free will” was well communicated. The hero in the movie, personated by Tom Clocks, was entrapped into a precisely devised trick whose aim is to induce him to kill somebody. However, just like the oracle in the play said, “you still have choices”, the hero gave up his murder at the last moment though the impulse of killing the man who had cruelly drowned his single son seemed irresistible, because he knew that he himself is a policeman, that the man should be punished by law rather than by him, and that justice is more important than personal satisfaction. On the other hand, irrational actions that seem to have mainly been elicited by external factors can always be explained as the consequence of subjective, and usually osmotic, dilution of self-discipline. For example, a rock singer who abandons himself in drugs may claim that so many rock singers take drugs, and it is the environment that has pushed him forward. Such assertion sounds reasonable on the surface, however, if one think critically, he needn’t go too far to find it an excuse. From the Eagles to the Door, to Deep Purple, and to Beyond, there are so many rock stars all round the world, who are singers, who are rock singers, but who are not drug takers. In fact, it is highly possible that at the beginning the rock singer thought it needless to keep strict self-discipline before the allurement of drugs and consequently stepped his first step on this endless road, then he wanted more, in the end he became addicted. In conclusion, It is the rock singer himself who had chosen his road towards death, with nobody or nothing having forced him to.

To sum up, the concept of 'individual responsibility' that acts as a necessity for social operation can never be regarded as a fiction. In fact, everyone should be responsible for what he have chosen and done, because neither did anybody ever made the decision for him, nor did anything.

realturtleUID: 69047

引用电影的例子可以，因为电影中反映的本来也就是人们对现实的思考
两个分论点，我觉得可以单独成段，每段把一个意思讲清楚就行，不必太担心分段多了，注意过渡衔接就行

imongUID: 140258

我来看看！

写得真不错！关于你的两个问题，第一，电影的那个例子我觉得没什么不妥，也不需要再多加什么解释，已经可以了。第二，第三段的确是长了一点，不过两个例子都是围绕着一个中心的，我觉得分开也可以，不分也可以。分开的话，前后（段间）稍微交待一下就可以了，不用顾虑太多的。

Our society is a complicated one that has been divided into infinite small parts which are interconnected with each other so tight that malfunctions of even several of them may result in negative influence on the whole.这是第二段的第二句，我觉得有点puzzled，是不是整理一下？还有你的第二段，说responsibility有用，我觉得似乎还差一点东西，如果再多说一句，没有这个responsibility的话会如何如何糟，会不会好一点？反正就是有种感觉，你没有把话说够，或者就是只做了阐述主张却没有论证的样子。当然，这是在仔细挑骨头了，文章已经很不错了呢！

这个题目，的确是两个关键字。necessary和fiction。我觉得，写这篇文章两个关键字一个都不能丢的。

coolwitsUID: 149150

imong你的意思我没懂，那句话的毛病是什么呢？是不是太长了表意不清？
能否说透一点？

imongUID: 140258

我就是觉得那个句子有点绕，主干structure找起来有点费劲的样子。不是严重的问题。

我试试：
Complicated as it is, our society is composed of innumerable small parts, which are interconnected so tight that malfunctions of even several of them may result in negative influence on the whole. 不过还是觉得even several那里可以再改一改。原来的句子我读了三遍才搞明白，不知道现在是不是读起来舒服一点。（也可能是我今天已经有点晕菜了，嘿嘿）

imongUID: 140258

哦，是吗？

嗯，这也是要提醒一下的。就好比独立宣言叫做 Emancipation Proclamation
原来经常有人望文生义写 Independence 什么 Announcement 之类的（比如说我，哈哈 :p）

谢谢dandelion！

fortitudesagUID: 139374

写的很好，三段可以拆开写吧，平衡一点。

coolwitsUID: 149150

谢谢appliwin！

我说一下我对题目的理解：
我的意思是说:necessary只是一个让步，其实就是说'individual responsibility' 是fiction. 题目意思是说'individual responsibility' 是不真实的或者是站不住脚的， 只能靠fiction来“迷惑”大众，（这里迷惑不是贬义），让大众能够为自己的行为负责而觉得理所当然， 然后社会才能稳定，这就是为什么fiction 是necessary.
people's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making .这就是说为什么是fiction: 既然人们的行为不是自己能决定的，而是被外在因素控制的， 那“individual responsibility”又从何谈起呢？所以只能是fiction
我认为，fiction就是文题的中心，necessary次之
While perfectly assenting to the indispensability of the concept，表示我承认individual responsibility是“necessary”的
"environmental factors和external forces 属于不同概念,不能互换",我同意
我认为:fiction是虚构的意思，既然是虚构，当然就can never be well founded
但dramatically influence people’s behavior和largely determine能有多大的区别，我看不出来。appliwin网友，能明示吗？