Issue6 跑题thesis和深入body分析 by imong

coniUID: 137677

issue6."The most effective way to understand contemporary culture is to analyze the trends of its youth


         What is the most effective way to understand the contemporary culture fully? People’s opinions differ greatly. A large number of people including the speaker maintain that analyzing the trends of the youth is the answer, while others claim that although the youth is the most significant vehicle of expressing the theme and spirit of contemporary culture, it is not the only access to understand the modern culture. I am an advocator of the latter point of view. The following reasons can best illustrate my point.

       First and foremost, basic to any fully understanding of contemporary culture is to comprehend its new generation’s habit, inclination and disposition. In this hyper-paced industrial society, high efficiency is the goal that every person pursues. The young people who are primarily interested in economic success try their best to save as much time as possible by cutting down the time that should be spent on sleeping, resting and eating in order to complete more work in limited amount of time, thus the fast food industry booming subsequently. If you take a walk in the street of Beijing, I am sure you would be surprised at the popularity of fast food services especially western fast food such as McDonalds and KFC. The restaurants of McDonalds and KFC will inevitably full of people at dinning time and the majority of the clients are high school or college students and other young people under thirty years old. In a survey done by a Chinese newspaper, most of the objects of the survey say that they eat fast food mainly due to their wish to save much time and to follow the culture trends. Another case in point is Internet. Nowadays, cyberspace communication is expanding by leaps and bounds, with millions of people visiting website daily. Receiving mountains of knowledge about different aspects such as music, military, history and science from the Internet has become the most obvious characteristic of the new culture. It has been estimated that more than half of the people who usually surf on the Internet are young people. What is more, young people’s interest in downloading MP3 and online movies strongly impels a new kind of development of cyberspace culture. Besides what I have mentioned above, pop music, romantic novels and extreme sports are all new trends of contemporary culture and win great reputation in the circle of the youth. Therefore, the youth nominated as the avant-garde and the fresh blood of society is a mirror by which the latest tendency and tide can be reflected.

       Additionally, adult and even senior people are indispensable factors in grasping the trends of contemporary culture. This society is a knowledge driven society in which knowledge is the cone of the contemporary culture. People begin to realize the meaning of the famous Chinese saying:” it is never to late to learn.”, and many retired people enter into special community university to learn. Operating computer and playing piano which are the keen topics among young people now have become popular among senior people. Do you still feel that we cannot understand the trends of contemporary culture from elder people? Along with senior people, adults have gradually accepted the conception of installation and loaning consumption that are the symbolizations of new culture and be firmly against by them a few years ago. Thus, influenced by the modern culture, the adult and senior people also play a substantial role in impelling the development of contemporary culture.

       In sum, culture is a collection of all kinds of thoughts and habits derived from all levels and generations of the society. One cannot cursively claim which generation or social level is the determinant of contemporary culture. I concede that analyzing the trends of the youth is an effective way in understanding a contemporary culture, but we should not ignore the role that other generations play in expressing a culture.

coniUID: 137677

gdhdanny 帮帮我呀

realturtleUID: 69047

6."The most effective way to understand contemporary culture is to analyze the trends of its youth


What is the most effective way to fully understand the contemporary culture? People’s opinions differ greatly. A large number of people including the speaker maintain that analyzing the trends of the youth is the answer, while others claim that although the youth is the most significant vehicle of expressing the theme and spirit of contemporary culture, it is not the only access to understand(ing) the modern culture. I am an advocator of the latter point of view. The following reasons can best illustrate my point.

First and foremost, basic to any fully understanding of contemporary culture is to comprehend its new generation’s habit, inclination and disposition. In this hyper-paced industrial society, high efficiency is the goal that every person pursues. The young people who are primarily interested in economic success try their best to save as much time as possible by cutting down the time that should be spent on sleeping, resting and eating in order to complete more work in a limited amount of time, thus the fast food industry booms subsequently. If you take a walk on the street of Beijing, I am sure you would be surprised at the popularity of fast food services especially western fast food such as McDonald’s and KFC. The restaurants of McDonald’s and KFC will (be) inevitably full of people at dinning time and the majority of the clients are high school or college students and other young people under thirty years old. In a survey done by a Chinese newspaper, most of the objects of the survey say (most of the respondents) that they eat fast food mainly due to their wish to save much time and to follow the culture trends. Another case in point is the Internet. Nowadays, cyberspace communication is expanding by leaps and bounds, with millions of people visiting websites daily. Receiving mountains of knowledge about different aspects such as music, military, history and science from the Internet has become the most obvious characteristic of the new culture. It has been estimated that more than half of the people who usually surf on the Internet are young people. What is more, young people’s interest in downloading MP3 and online movies strongly impels a new kind of development (the development of a new kind of cyberspace culture) of cyberspace culture. Apart from what I have mentioned above, pop music, romantic novels and extreme sports are all new trends of contemporary culture and win great reputation in the circle of the youth. Therefore, the youth nominated as the avant-garde and the fresh blood of society is a mirror by which the latest tendency and tide can be reflected.

Additionally, adult and even senior people are indispensable factors in grasping the trends of contemporary culture. This society is a knowledge driven society in which knowledge is the cone of the contemporary culture. People begin to realize the meaning of the famous Chinese saying:” it is never too late to learn.”, and many retired people enter special community university to learn. Operating computers and playing the piano, which are the keen topics among young people, now have become popular among senior citizens. Do you still feel that we cannot understand the trends of contemporary culture from elder people? Along with senior people, adults have gradually accepted the conception of installation and loaning consumption that are the symbolizations of new culture and be firmly against by them a few years ago(I can’t understand the latter part of your sentence?). Thus, influenced by the modern culture, the adult and senior people also play a substantial role in impelling the development of contemporary culture.

In sum, culture is a collection of all kinds of thoughts and habits derived from all levels and generations of the society. One cannot cursively claim which generation or social level is the determinant of contemporary culture. I concede that analyzing the trends of the youth is an effective way in understanding a contemporary culture, but we should not ignore the role that other generations play in expressing a culture.

我觉得写得还不错^_^，例子举得比较精当。用词也很好。

dawnspeakerUID: 152586

语言不错,可惜第一段TS就犯大错误了.第一段为了引出主题,提到了两个观点，然后对第二个表示支持，对第一个表示反对。这样本来是标准且保险的写法，但有个要求是：两个观点必须是对立的。看coni 的这个TS：[B]it is not the only access to understand the modern culture[/B]。“不是唯一的途径”与“是最有效的途径『ISSUE主题』”这两者显然并不对立，更不是“mutal exclusive”

这儿跑了题，语言虽然好……

coni 想办法改一些呗

coniUID: 137677

我对dawnspeaker的看法有些疑问，题目说的是“了解一个文化最有效的方法是了解它的年轻人的倾向。”我的论点是“同意年轻人是一个有效的途径，但谈不上最有效，因为从其他的群体同样可以了解。”所以我才那样写了，在第二段写我也同样认为年轻人是一种途径，在第三段提出其他的群体也有同样的作用。

不知道我现在的想法对不对

xiaoaierUID: 137074

我同意downspeaker的说法， 可以从其它群体了解并不能证明了解年轻人不是最有效的

从文章看来， 作者还是同意第一种观点， 只不过对TOPIC做了补充而已

不过语言的连贯，与用词都是我要学习的。一起 加油！

coniUID: 137677

我就是对这点有疑问，不知道算不算跑题，因为我并没有在文章中明确的说明我是同意还是否定原题的说法，我只是在文章中阐述了自己的观点，也可以说是一种对原题的补充。所以我想问一下什么叫跑题。

imongUID: 140258

与其说跑题不如说beg the question更准确

非常同意dawnspeaker的分析，一针见血，人家提出来... most effective，你认为这个是.. not the only ，摆明了就是各说各话。

这道题，既然人家说了The most effective way is A，那肯定可以有：
1. 同意并论证
2. 反对，The most effective is B though A is somewhat useful
3. 反对，A is not useful at all plus 反而添乱
4. in some cases A is the most effective while in other cases things may vary greatly
5. etc.....

至于说not the only way，就好比，人家问你“吃vc是减肥最有效的方法吗？”你回答“吃vc不是唯一的减肥方法”，答非所问，基本如此。

说起来这个也可以放到刚刚写的那个跑题总结帖子里面的。

imongUID: 140258

那也就是说你打算写同意并论证。

关键就是怎么样具体操作了，肯定要拆开重新组织的，plus例子，etc.

coniUID: 137677

我说打算写同意其实是违心的，因为我的确觉得它不是最有效的，更确切的说是几种方法都同样有效，你不能说哪个是最有效的。不过既然难以两全，我还想问要是写同意原题的观点是不是还要说从其他的渠道都不行，也就是要对我原来文章里第三段的内容进行反驳？

imongUID: 140258

看来你自己已经把自己绕晕了

很明确的问自己：到底同不同意是MOST EFFECTIVE？是就是，不是就不是！如果不是most effective，后续的可能有很多种（我上面已经说了几个）

你现在的position不就是：否认原题，认为存在其他way，然后很难讲which is the most effective或者就根本无法区分which is most

确定了to study youth和其他approach的级别相同，就是对to study youth is most effective的否认！

IS IT？自己要搞清楚自己的想法。

正好有一篇新写的不妨去看看讨论一下：
https://bbs.gter.net/showthread.php?s=&threadid=163810

gdhdannyUID: 125843

偶和coni观点类似
most effective 的否定不就是not the most effective么
也就是说，所有不是最有效的东西都可以作为批驳观点的论据
所以我认为
首先，肯定年轻人对于理解文化的重要性
其次，提出文化的有些范畴是无法单纯通过年轻人来理解的
第三，其他方面的因素同样可以作为文化的载体
不知imong有何高见

p.s.我的文章
Issue6
“The most effective way to understand contemporary culture is to analyze the trends of its youth.”


What is the most effective way to understand contemporary culture? The statement raises a variety of issues about the carrier of the synchronous culture, the historical background of this main stream culture and the equivalence of past and present value towards traditional heritage. I concede that the youth, one of the most active and innovative groups of individuals in the world, may to some extent reflect the tastes and values of the majority. Nevertheless, the complexity of the topic requires far more aspects to be taken into account.

Admittedly, it is reasonable to emphasize the significance of young people as an important carrier of the contemporary culture concerning their active role in reflecting the culture, what the direction of its development is and how it inclines to various social subjects. The technological development has brought us into such an era that the world changes at an unprecedented speed. The youth, which is mostly the well-educated group on society, tends to have a keener curiosity which leads to a better receptivity to the blooming innovations. Before the widespread of cell phone, people had no alternative but to visit or telephone their friends and relatives as an demonstration of care and concern when festival came. However, it is reported by official newspapers this year that during the 7-day break of spring festival, the total amount of short messages sent by mobile phones in Beijing rockets up to 150 million, which means each of the 15 million population in the forbidden city sent at lest 10 messages. It is quite common among young people to send their greetings for the New Year to all their friends by the “exercise of thumb”. In this phenomenon, the youth acts as the main force to create the naissance of a brand new culture in communicating.

Tentatively, the trends of the youth in some way do indicate the contemporary culture, but judging from how sophisticated one certain culture can be, historical and background information and the factors of other social groups should be taken precedence over the sole choice of youth if we expect to have a deep inside of the investigated culture. Although most of the young people were educated in high school the ancient expression of our ancestors, the lack of their practical usage accompanied by the inadequacy of interests unfortunately result in the fact that the spirit of ancient calligraphy and literature is better preserved among bibliographic data and materials in library. Meanwhile, the elderly generations are also gradually trying to accept some of the fresh ideas such as the popular concept of consumption with loan from the bank just like their children. Some of them even successfully master the basic skill of surfing on line or other representative characteristics of the avant-garde. Therefore, along with their abundant social experiences and insight of view, the senior group of individuals becomes another substantial side of force which attribute to a better understanding of the contemporary culture.

In sum, the concept of culture is so recondite that chances are little for us to estimate and grasp the spirit of it within only one limited scope. Considering its characteristics of everlasting changing and also being the heritage of corresponding history, we should rather reference to various interrelated terms of subjects such as historical background, ideological alternation in accordance with the epochal interpretation of the culture than simply take the inclination of the youth when shaping the understanding of the culture.

请指正

dawnspeakerUID: 152586

gdhdanny:你的文章我看过了。
第一个body就感觉是在Beg the question。
emphasize the [B]significance[/B]... as an [B]important[/B] carrier
这儿避开“是不是最有效”这个话题不谈，讲起来是不是更重要来。“有效”和“重要”完全不是同一个概念

imong坚持这叫beg the question，可是偶们农民俗话都叫它跑题啦
我认为coni和gdhdanny的观点（我是指[B]在文中表现出来的[/B]）是很不一样。gdhdanny没有提到effective,而coni论及了，可惜理解错误。coni把这个效率理解成年轻人追求和讲究效率。。。好像ISSUE主题里的effective完全不是这个意思

:D一直纳闷coni的那句gdhdanny救救我吧是什么所指，现在明白了:D

coniUID: 137677

我想我是有点晕了，不过我还是想把我的思路整个说一下：

最初我的思路是：
首先我不同意原题的观点，因为最高级的暗层含义就是排他性，即如果同意了原题的观点就等于认为（至少是如下的认为）在所有可以研究文化的群体中年轻人是最有效的，而其他群体的有效性都不如年轻人。而我的看法是我不否认年轻人是一个有效的途径，但绝对不能说是最有效的，因为在传达一个文化的过程中，各个群体所发挥的作用是等同的，只不过是各有各的侧重点罢了。所以我认为在研究文化这个问题上根本就不存在哪个群体最重要的问题，也就是说在最高级上是不可比的。

由我上面的观点我进行了如我文章的论述，首先我说明了年轻人的确可以起到一定的作用（注意我并没有说年轻人是effective的,而是用了significant这个词来形容，在我的举例中体现出的讲求效率也不是我想用此来反映主题，而是我认为年轻人反映的是当前文化中讲求效率的这个特征）。随后为了论证其他的群体同样的重要性，我又以老年人和成年人为例说明他们分别反映了文化中的哪个方面。也就是我的那两个例子，分别认为“活到老学到老”的文化现象是有老年人反映的（年轻人不可能反映这个，因为他们根本就不老），“分期付款和贷款”的文化现象用成年人来反映（年轻人也不太可能反映这个，因为他们基本上没有收入）。

这就是我的思路，现在好好想想后，我认为我并没有跑题，因为我的论证可以很好的支持我的论点（although the youth is the most significant vehicle of expressing the theme and spirit of contemporary culture, it is not the only access to understand the modern culture），我在论点中并没有提谁是effective谁不是，因为我压根就认为在这个问题上不存在谁是effective的问题。我认为这道题的主要目的是让我们论述社会不同群体和当代文化间的关系，当然出题者在题目中说“年轻人是最有效的方法”这只是出题者的看法，也就是说这只是这道题的一种解释方式。所以我认为只要我的文章的中心是在对“社会各个不同群体对当代文化的不同影响”在进行论述就没有跑题。举个简单的例子，如果一道题说“狗上人类最好的朋友。”当然你可以论述狗是，或者狗不是而另外一种动物是，但我觉得出题者的主要目的让我们探讨“动物和人类的朋友关系”这一个主题，而不仅仅是一个狭隘的“狗是否是人类最好的朋友”或者是“让你挑出一种动物你认为是人类最好的朋友”

不知我的想法是不是正确

imongUID: 140258

although the youth is the most significant vehicle of expressing the theme and spirit of contemporary culture, it is not the only access to understand the modern culture.

看看这句话的隐含意思：it is not the only approach --> it is not the most effective approach
成立吗？？