【新人发帖，但求精品】当我们谈论LLM时，我们谈论什么

王三儿GemmaUID: 3433442

风轻云荡 发表于 2014-6-5 20:44
如果想去律所的话，真没觉得国内研究生比LLM强.....

有些第二梯队的律所，实习是有留用机会的，从这点来说，国内研究生的机会会大些

maimaiqiUID: 3532018

我是徘徊了很久才开始关注LLM，主要是想提升一下自己法律英语，更深刻地了解一下欧美法

JD@UVAUID: 3503603

楼主关于就业市场的分析似乎有误：
1）美国律师最密集的地方是华盛顿特区：

2）加州，尤其是北加，律师工作机会的竞争之激烈程度高于其它地区。华盛顿特区次之。纽约相对容易些。芝加哥的工作机会貌似没有纽约和华盛顿特区多。

LexusUID: 3530515

maimaiqi 发表于 2014-6-9 09:38
我是徘徊了很久才开始关注LLM，主要是想提升一下自己法律英语，更深刻地了解一下欧美法

嗯，哈哈，先赞一个，你应该是第一个完成我正文那个“互动活动”的~“徘徊”是指你对LLM拿不定主意还是？其实我觉得如果你单纯的只是想了解欧美法或者提升英语的话，或许LLM并不适合你，因为她只有一年，而且学不深的，学费你懂得~

LexusUID: 3530515

JD@UVA 发表于 2014-6-9 10:24
楼主关于就业市场的分析似乎有误：
1）美国律师最密集的地方是华盛顿特区：

嗯嗯，资料很棒！但是我其实还有一个问题，华盛顿特区律师的密度大是否就一定意味着工作机会多呢？分析如下：
1、按照你提供的数据统计，参照百度百科最新人口统计，DC人口为55万，乘以密度可大体得出能提供的律师岗位，即：55*276.7≈15219个；同理，根据纽约州2003年人口统计显示，人口为1919万，据此得出律师岗位数：1919*20.4≈39148个，而纽约市作为纽约州最大城市，也是最重要城市，毫无疑问其律师岗位应该是最高的，且相比罗切斯特、水牛城这些城市，毫无疑问它的律师岗位数量至少能够占到总数的一多半，姑且算作6成，那也将达到23500个》15200（DC）
2、同理加州4012万人可得律师岗位43731个。
3、芝加哥属于伊利诺伊州，律师岗位：1242*14=17388个，此处来看，或许芝加哥的就业岗位数没有DC高是可能的。
4、但即便这样，也不能单纯的认为律师密度就能决定就业和LLM的选校定位，我们选校选的是机会和机遇，如果依照榜单所示，排名第三的特拉华州密度高达18.0，但是其总人口只有78万，能提供的岗位数（1404）不到芝加哥所在州的8.1%，况且，特拉华也并没有优势高校，且经济并不好（2010年GDP全美41名），因此又会有几个人选择去那里读LLM呢？尽管它密度排到三甲。
5、因此得出，选校方面，就未来就业来看，纽约、加州、芝加哥还是毫无问题的，当然，DC也是需要考虑的，毕竟还有乔治城大学呢~
说这么多只是想说说我自己的想法啦，主要是觉得单凭律师密度是不可取的，嘿嘿，抱歉用了这么多数据分析，我只是想严密的论证一下，之前没太在意过数据，也算是自己的一个短板吧~
还是非常感谢你提供的宝贵资料~希望日后多多交流，相互学习哈~

maimaiqiUID: 3532018

Lexus 发表于 2014-6-10 12:57
嗯，哈哈，先赞一个，你应该是第一个完成我正文那个“互动活动”的~“徘徊”是指你对LLM拿不定主意还是？ ...

怎么说呢，我之前去应聘一个不算牛的所，去了就给一个东西让翻译……反正因为英语我失去了挺多机会，也算是痛定思痛吧，不管LLM时间多长，出去一年总比在国内闭门造车几年进步要多

LexusUID: 3530515

maimaiqi 发表于 2014-6-10 15:36
怎么说呢，我之前去应聘一个不算牛的所，去了就给一个东西让翻译……反正因为英语我失去了挺多机会，也算 ...

看来你是工作族喽？想出国镀镀金然后回来找一份好工作？其实只要家里的条件尚可，有想法不妨就出去看看~

JD@UVAUID: 3503603

Number v. percentage, typical LSAT question. Here is the data about NUMBER! 一个 DC 的律师，居然比整个麻省的都多！

JD@UVAUID: 3503603

也别成天仅仅拿律师的人头数和工作机会挂钩，那仅是个 proxy。这儿有一个美国五十州法学院毕业生和律师工作空缺的比率的全年统计（2011年，图标笔误成2010-2020，从最差到最好。但我不会因此而去阿拉斯加读法学院！注意：华盛顿特区依然打败加州！）：





Law Graduate Overproduction by State (2011)

LexusUID: 3530515

JD@UVA 发表于 2014-6-11 09:40
也别成天仅仅拿律师的人头数和工作机会挂钩，那仅是个 proxy。这儿有一个美国五十州法学院毕业生和律师工作 ...

你可真是彪悍的数据王。。哈哈，这样吧，我说几点，你看看有木有道理（PS：我等LLM不用考Lsat，所以思维上恐不太专业，玩笑啦~）：
1、我们是中国人，而且本帖探讨的是LLM，因此无论援引怎样的数据，都会由两个非常明显的弊端：
（1）所有的统计都是以美国本土的人为基准的，不管你承不承认，即便美国某州就业率升到99%，跟大多数华人的关系是不大的，因此单拼数据的意义本就不大。
（2）大多数统计相信都是以JD为基准，因此对于“老流氓”们没有太多参考价值。
2、欢迎你提供了更多的数据来支持自己的主张，这是我们应当学习的，我之前的分析也许有不到之处，但也仅是依据你之前的数据稍作分析而已，不足之处还请指正。
3、单纯提到LLM的机遇和机会，不知道先前的回帖你看了没，我已经比较明确的表示LLM在美就业很难，几乎不可能，因此我们更应该注重的是这9个月的体验和机遇，而不是真正的留美就业，因为相信和我一样，绝大多数人读LLM的最终选择都是回国。
4、在上述基础之上，我认为，选择纽约、加州、芝加哥这样的“国际性较浓”的大都市和区域更有利于我们获得实习或者各种各样的机会，因为根据寄托论坛的统计，出国读LLM的人中，公司法和国际经济法的人是大多数，因此一个国际体验更浓厚的地方显然对我们而言更有意义，是不是？毕竟我想华尔街的吸引力和机遇完虐DC应该不是问题。
5、提到DC，我需要指明两点：
（1）其是政治精英集中地，也是美国律师的地盘，其中多少人是以律师带动从政我们不得而知，这其中又有多少学的是跟政府有关的法律（如行政法、宪法）我们亦不得而知，因此对于我们这些追求国际化的LLM又有何借鉴意义呢？
（2）我从上文也并没有否认你想为DC正名的决心，毕竟乔治城大学和乔治华盛顿大学都在DC，实力不容小觑，但是也正如你提供的数据，DC是完虐加州了，但他排名也不高吧，况且你自己都说意义不大，因为阿拉斯加你会去吗？因此这样的排名又有何借鉴意义呢？
总结一下：我想说，我们的太多纸上谈兵只是说明自己的想法，真正的选择在于大家，毕竟我们清楚，再高的就业率，与我们何干？还是努力充实自己来的实际些，同意否？
希望以此作结，也希望各位借鉴的同仁客观冷静的分析争议，你一定要有自己的选择，而这个选择，不是基于统计，而是基于你的想法。

LexusUID: 3530515

JD@UVA 发表于 2014-6-11 09:40
也别成天仅仅拿律师的人头数和工作机会挂钩，那仅是个 proxy。这儿有一个美国五十州法学院毕业生和律师工作 ...

鉴于你读的是JD（根据你的名字判断，也许不对），在此我也想向大家提供一些数据，希望能够有帮助，以下是2013年统计的美国JD就业率情况，请大家各取所需（因字数限制，分段发布）：

	School Funded Rate	Law Firms			Public ServiceScore	Clerkships		Salary Response Score
		101+Attorneys	26-100 Attorneys	2-25 Attorneys		Federal	State /Local
George Washington University	22.6%	27.3%	5.7%	10.4%	32.5%	3.8%	4.2%	June 2013
William and Mary	20.1%	12.7%	5.4%	10.3%	34.3%	5.9%	11.8%	June 2013
Charlotte School of Law	17.1%	1.3%	2.6%	20.5%	6.8%	0%	0%	June 2013
University of Virginia	15.1%	47.8%	4.4%	3.6%	19.8%	14.3%	4.1%	June 2013
University of California - Davis	14.4%	11.	5%	19.8%	16.3%	1.5%	1%	June 2013
Boston University	13.9%	27.1%	5.5%	8.4%	12.8%	4.8%	2.6%	June 2013
Emory University	13.9%	22.6%	6.4%	18.8%	13.9%	6.4%	3.4%	June 2013
Vanderbilt University	13.8%	28.6%	7.1%	10.2%	9.2%	10.2%	2%	June 2013
Georgetown University	13.3%	39.1%	3.4%	4.8%	25.6%	3.7%	3.2%	June 2013
Golden Gate University	12.9%	1.6%	0.5%	11.3%	8.6%	0.5%	0.5%	June 2013
New York University	12.9%	59.5%	0.2%	1.9%	21.6%	5.6%	2.1%	June 2013
CUNY	12.1%	0.7%	0.7%	16.3%	27%	2.1%	4.3%	June 2013
University of California - Los Angeles	12%	34.2%	5.1%	13.5%	11.4%	4.8%	1.5%	June 2013
Fordham University	11.9%	30.5%	6.8%	7.8%	10.9%	2.9%	2.7%	June 2013
George Mason University	10.9%	8.6%	2.3%	22.7%	24.5%	1.8%	5%	June 2013
University of Denver	10.4%	6%	3.8%	18.3%	18%	0.3%	7.3%	June 2013
University of Illinois	10.3%	22.1%	6.1%	18.3%	8.5%	1.9%	1.9%	June 2013
Michigan State University	10%	4.5%	7.2%	19.6%	7.9%	1%	2.1%	June 2013
Washington University in St Louis	9.7%	23%	5%	13.3%	14.7%	3.3%	1.7%	June 2013
Yale University	9.5%	32%	0.5%	1.4%	13.1%	34.7%	4.5%	June 2013
Arizona State University	9.4%	8%	7.5%	17.9%	15.6%	0.5%	7.1%	June 2013
University of Colorado	9.1%	4.6%	4.6%	14.9%	17.7%	1.7%	13.1%	June 2013
University of Miami	9.1%	6.7%	4.8%	28.2%	11.5%	1.3%	2.8%	June 2013
University of San Francisco	9%	6.8%	1.8%	10.4%	7.2%	0%	0.5%	June 2013
Phoenix School of Law	8.8%	0%	0.6%	28.7%	16%	0.6%	0.6%	June 2013
Ohio State University	8.6%	10.4%	7.2%	13.1%	18.9%	2.7%	1.8%	June 2013
University of the Pacific	8.5%	3.3%	5.2%	16.7%	13.7%	0.7%	2%	June 2013
Loyola Marymount University	8.3%	10%	4.6%	18.5%	4.1%	1.2%	0.2%	June 2013
Temple University	8.3%	7.6%	6.1%	11.9%	14.1%	4.3%	7.6%	June 2013
Columbia University	8.1%	64.2%	2.1%	0.6%	16.8%	7.9%	1.1%	June 2013
University of Oregon	8.1%	0.6%	1.2%	12.4%	13.7%	1.9%	10.6%	June 2013
Northeastern University	7.9%	6%	2.3%	9.8%	20.9%	1.4%	5.1%	June 2013
University of Chicago	7.9%	56.3%	5.1%	5.6%	10.7%	14.4%	1.9%	June 2013
University of Maryland	7.8%	7.5%	4.4%	10.7%	17.9%	3.4%	15%	June 2013
University of California - Hastings	7.4%	13.3%	3.8%	18.1%	9.5%	1.8%	0.5%	June 2013
University of New Hampshire	7.2%	8.7%	8.7%	21%	12.3%	0%	1.4%	June 2013
Case Western Reserve University	7%	8.7%	4.1%	13.4%	15.7%	1.2%	1.7%	June 2013
Florida Coastal School of Law	6.5%	0.8%	1.2%	19.6%	12.7%	0.2%	1%	June 2013
Pace University	6.5%	1.3%	5.7%	21.3%	12.6%	0.9%	5.7%	June 2013
University of Minnesota	6.5%	13.5%	4.8%	15.7%	11.3%	4.3%	11.3%	June 2013
Santa Clara University	6.4%	10.4%	4.7%	18.5%	6.4%	0%	0%	June 2013
Cornell University	6.3%	57.9%	2.6%	1.6%	13.7%	6.3%	2.1%	June 2013
University of San Diego	6.1%	6.7%	5.2%	18%	8.9%	1.8%	0.6%	June 2013
Cardozo-Yeshiva University	5.9%	11.6%	3.6%	15%	12.9%	0.8%	3.4%	June 2013
University of Texas	5.6%	26.8%	4.8%	16.1%	12.6%	8.3%	2.9%	June 2013
Brigham Young University	5.4%	7.5%	6.8%	17.7%	10.2%	4.8%	11.6%	June 2013
Duke University	5.3%	51.1%	0.9%	1.8%	9.3%	12.9%	6.7%	June 2013
University of Arkansas - Little Rock	5%	0%	5.8%	27.3%	14.4%	1.4%	3.6%	June 2013
Boston College	4.6%	25.4%	5.4%	11.2%	14.2%	2.3%	3.1%	June 2013
American University	4.5%	10.2%	1.7%	6.9%	20.7%	2.4%	5.2%	June 2013
University of Florida	4.5%	9.3%	6.3%	18%	17.7%	3.9%	0.9%	June 2013
University of Southern California	4.5%	30.8%	3.2%	18.1%	4.5%	6.8%	0%	June 2013
Northern Illinois University	4.4%	3.3%	1.1%	30.8%	11%	0%	0%	June 2013
Pepperdine University	4.2%	4.7%	4.7%	25.4%	6.1%	3.3%	0.9%	June 2013
Willamette University	4%	1.6%	2.4%	34.4%	14.4%	0%	1.6%	June 2013
New York Law School	3.8%	4.8%	5.2%	20.1%	8.7%	0.8%	2.5%	June 2013
Northwestern University	3.7%	49.2%	4.4%	5.1%	7.1%	6.4%	1.7%	June 2013
Hofstra University	3.6%	4.4%	5.2%	26.7%	11.3%	0.8%	1.4%	June 2013
University of Cincinnati	3.6%	10%	5%	20%	17.9%	0%	2.1%	June 2013
University of Pennsylvania	3.3%	66.7%	3.7%	2.2%	5.2%	10.4%	4.4%	June 2013
Harvard University	3.2%	53.6%	0.5%	1.4%	11.4%	17.8%	4.4%	June 2013
St. John's University	3.2%	9.6%	7.1%	21.4%	10.7%	2.1%	0.4%	June 2013
Indiana University - Indianapolis	3.1%	4.4%	2.7%	25.8%	19.3%	0.7%	1.4%	June 2013
Penn State University	3.1%	8.2%	5.2%	14.9%	11.3%	0%	12.9%	June 2013
University of Michigan	3.1%	43.3%	2.6%	4.9%	16%	8.5%	3.6%	June 2013
University of Nebraska	3.1%	0%	8.6%	29.7%	18%	1.6%	2.3%	June 2013
Stetson University	2.9%	4.7%	5.3%	27%	22%	1.5%	1.8%	June 2013
Texas Tech University	2.8%	4.7%	2.3%	38.1%	11.6%	0%	0.9%	June 2013
University of Wisconsin	2.8%	9.9%	4.2%	22.2%	19.4%	1.1%	3.9%	June 2013
University of Wyoming	2.7%	2.7%	1.3%	32%	10.7%	2.7%	9.3%	June 2013

LexusUID: 3530515

JD@UVA 发表于 2014-6-11 09:40
也别成天仅仅拿律师的人头数和工作机会挂钩，那仅是个 proxy。这儿有一个美国五十州法学院毕业生和律师工作 ...

接上文：

Indiana University  - Bloomington	2.5%	13.7%	4.9%	10.8%	14.2%	1%	6.4%	June 2013
University of North Carolina	2.3%	16.4%	4.3%	13.3%	10.5%	4.7%	5.5%	June 2013
Valparaiso University	2.3%	1.2%	3.5%	24.4%	11.6%	1.2%	0%	June 2013
Florida International University	2.2%	3.3%	5.4%	33.2%	15.8%	0.5%	1.1%	June 2013
Stanford University	2.2%	47%	0.6%	1.7%	7.7%	28.2%	2.8%	June 2013
University of California - Berkeley	2.2%	53.8%	3.5%	4.2%	14.7%	6.7%	2.2%	June 2013
University of Tulsa	2.2%	0.7%	4.5%	36.6%	12.7%	0%	0%	June 2013
University of Missouri - Columbia	2%	8.2%	4.8%	23.8%	22.4%	2%	3.4%	June 2013
University of Notre Dame	2%	22.4%	5.6%	11.2%	11.7%	9.2%	2%	June 2013
Drexel University	1.9%	5.8%	4.5%	11.6%	14.2%	0.6%	9%	June 2013
University of Hawaii	1.9%	0%	5.7%	15.1%	16%	1.9%	20.8%	June 2013
University of Kansas	1.9%	9.1%	6.5%	18.2%	17.5%	0.6%	4.5%	June 2013
Wake Forest University	1.9%	14.7%	12.2%	16.7%	15.4%	4.5%	2.6%	June 2013
New England School of Law	1.8%	1.2%	1.5%	22.1%	11.5%	0.6%	3.5%	June 2013
Chapman University	1.7%	1.7%	5.6%	24.7%	2.8%	0%	0%	June 2013
University of Alabama	1.7%	8.1%	4.1%	26.7%	16.9%	9.3%	2.9%	June 2013
Loyola University  Chicago	1.5%	10%	5.5%	24%	10.3%	0.7%	1.1%	June 2013
Washington and Lee   University	1.5%	10.8%	2.3%	11.5%	13.8%	4.6%	9.2%	June 2013
Chicago-Kent College of Law	1.4%	11.3%	7.4%	27%	6.7%	0.4%	2.1%	June 2013
John Marshall  Law School  - Chicago	1.4%	2.7%	4.1%	22%	15.5%	2.2%	0.7%	June 2013
Mercer University	1.4%	7.7%	8.5%	38%	10.6%	1.4%	7%	June 2013
St. Louis University	1.4%	9.1%	7.2%	18.1%	16.7%	1.1%	3.6%	June 2013
University of Baltimore	1.4%	3.2%	4.3%	25.4%	14.1%	0.6%	13.8%	June 2013
University of Georgia	1.3%	16.6%	8.3%	16.2%	14.4%	7.4%	6.1%	June 2013
University of Tennessee	1.3%	10.3%	12.9%	20%	11%	3.9%	5.2%	June 2013
Baylor University	1.2%	7.9%	9.1%	36%	7.3%	1.8%	0%	June 2013
Catholic University  of America	1.2%	7.3%	1.6%	9.8%	20.7%	1.6%	8.1%	June 2013
Villanova University	1.2%	13.3%	3.9%	14.5%	8.6%	2%	7.8%	June 2013
Wayne State University	1.2%	6.5%	8.9%	31%	11.9%	0.6%	0.6%	June 2013
Appalachian School of Law	1.1%	1.1%	1.1%	24.2%	13.2%	0%	4.4%	June 2013
Liberty University	1.1%	2.2%	0%	22.2%	13.3%	0%	4.4%	June 2013
University of Houston	1.1%	17.6%	4.2%	26.3%	6.9%	1.1%	0%	June 2013
University of Oklahoma	1.1%	4.8%	6.4%	34.6%	13.3%	2.1%	0.5%	June 2013
University of The District of Columbia	1.1%	0%	1.1%	9.7%	15.1%	0%	5.4%	June 2013
University of Washington	1.1%	9.9%	7.2%	15.5%	22.7%	2.2%	11.6%	June 2013
Duquesne University	1%	7%	3%	26.9%	6.5%	0.5%	8%	June 2013
Southern Methodist University	1%	14.3%	5.8%	32.1%	7.2%	3.1%	1%	June 2013
University of Connecticut	1%	7.5%	7%	19.1%	17.6%	0.5%	6.5%	June 2013
University of Idaho	1%	1.9%	1%	24%	12.5%	1%	13.5%	June 2013
Vermont Law School	1%	0%	2.4%	18.9%	18.4%	1%	7.3%	June 2013
Albany Law School	0.9%	4.7%	3.9%	25.8%	13.3%	0.9%	2.6%	June 2013
DePaul University	0.8%	3.5%	3.3%	24.7%	10.1%	0.3%	1.9%	June 2013
Rutgers State  University - Newark	0.8%	6.6%	2.5%	10.3%	8.6%	0.8%	27.6%	June 2013
California Western School of Law	0.7%	0.7%	3.9%	23%	9.5%	0.4%	1.8%	June 2013
Drake University	0.7%	2.9%	5.8%	23%	13.7%	0.7%	5.8%	June 2013
Howard University	0.7%	15.2%	1.3%	4%	20.5%	1.3%	14.6%	June 2013
Quinnipiac University	0.7%	2.6%	2%	31.8%	15.9%	0%	7.3%	June 2013
St. Mary's University	0.7%	0.7%	1.9%	31.7%	13.4%	0.7%	1.1%	June 2013
University of Missouri - Kansas    City	0.7%	6.5%	3.3%	38.6%	8.5%	0.7%	5.9%	June 2013

LexusUID: 3530515

JD@UVA 发表于 2014-6-11 09:40
也别成天仅仅拿律师的人头数和工作机会挂钩，那仅是个 proxy。这儿有一个美国五十州法学院毕业生和律师工作 ...

继续接上文：

University of Utah	0.7%	5.2%	5.2%	30.6%	9%	1.5%	6.7%	June 2013
West Virginia University	0.7%	15.5%	6.3%	24.6%	9.9%	4.9%	10.6%	June 2013
Ave Maria School of Law	0.6%	0.6%	0%	10.2%	7.8%	0%	1.2%	June 2013
Creighton University	0.6%	2.4%	2.4%	27.9%	20.6%	2.4%	1.2%	June 2013
Florida A&M University	0.6%	3.8%	5%	16.3%	13.8%	0.6%	0.6%	June 2013
Mississippi College	0.6%	3.7%	3.7%	33.5%	16.5%	1.8%	6.7%	June 2013
Northern Kentucky University	0.6%	5.6%	3.1%	29.6%	16%	0.6%	0.6%	June 2013
Roger Williams University	0.6%	1.1%	2.2%	23.2%	12.2%	0%	11%	June 2013
Suffolk University	0.6%	8.9%	4.6%	12.4%	12.4%	0%	3.1%	June 2013
University of Dayton	0.6%	5.2%	1.7%	24.7%	15.5%	1.1%	1.1%	June 2013
University of Mississippi	0.6%	9.1%	4.2%	27.9%	11.5%	3.6%	6.1%	June 2013
University of Nevada - Las    Vegas	0.6%	5.6%	6.8%	26.1%	7.5%	1.9%	14.9%	June 2013
University of St. Thomas - Minneapolis	0.6%	3.1%	1.9%	20.5%	7.5%	1.2%	9.3%	June 2013
Oklahoma City University	0.5%	2.4%	1.4%	33.3%	10.6%	0%	0.5%	June 2013
Syracuse University	0.5%	5.4%	4.9%	16.2%	14.6%	1.6%	3.2%	June 2013
Texas Wesleyan University	0.5%	1.4%	2.9%	33.3%	10.6%	0%	1%	June 2013
University of Iowa	0.5%	9.2%	6.5%	22.2%	16.8%	4.9%	6.5%	June 2013
University of Puerto Rico	0.5%	1.5%	4.5%	8.9%	5.4%	0.5%	3.5%	June 2013
Inter American University	0.4%	0%	0%	1.3%	10.3%	0.4%	0.4%	June 2013
Loyola University  New Orleans	0.4%	6.1%	4.3%	24.1%	7.2%	1.4%	2.2%	June 2013
Thomas Jefferson School of Law	0.4%	0.4%	2.3%	17.3%	4.6%	0%	0.8%	June 2013
Thomas M Cooley   Law School	0.4%	1.2%	1.7%	18.4%	8.8%	0.2%	3.4%	June 2013
Tulane University	0.4%	10%	5.9%	20.1%	11.5%	5.2%	5.2%	June 2013
University of South Carolina	0.4%	8%	3.1%	20.4%	16.4%	2.7%	16.4%	June 2013
Florida State University	0.3%	5.6%	6.6%	18.5%	30.4%	1.4%	2.1%	June 2013
South Texas College of Law	0.3%	3.4%	3.4%	39.3%	9.3%	0.3%	0.3%	June 2013
Southwestern Law School	0.3%	3.4%	5.9%	27.8%	4.6%	0%	0.3%	June 2013
Barry University	0%	0.5%	3.5%	23%	12.5%	0%	1.5%	June 2013
Brooklyn Law School	0%	8.8%	4.9%	15.2%	15%	2.1%	3.2%	June 2013
Campbell University	0%	2.8%	4.8%	41.4%	9%	2.1%	2.8%	June 2013
Capital University	0%	2%	4.6%	20.8%	17.3%	0.5%	0%	June 2013
Charleston School of Law	0%	3.1%	2.6%	29.3%	9.2%	0.9%	7%	June 2013
Cleveland-Marshall College of Law	0%	7.4%	1.7%	19.9%	14.8%	0%	1.1%	June 2013
Elon Law School	0%	0%	0%	31.3%	8%	0%	4.5%	June 2013
Faulkner University	0%	1%	8.7%	26.9%	7.7%	1%	1.9%	June 2013
Georgia State University	0%	9%	3%	27.6%	15.6%	2.5%	0.5%	June 2013
Gonzaga University	0%	1.2%	1.8%	25.9%	7.8%	0.6%	5.4%	June 2013
Hamline University	0%	1.6%	2.6%	18.9%	10%	0%	9.5%	June 2013
John Marshall  Law School  - Atlanta	0%	2.8%	0.6%	29.4%	10.2%	0%	2.3%	June 2013
Lewis and Clark College	0%	5.7%	3.8%	19.6%	13.9%	1.4%	8.1%	June 2013
Louisiana State University	0%	4.5%	8.1%	35%	12.1%	2.7%	7.6%	June 2013
Marquette University	0%	6.4%	4.6%	28.4%	8.7%	1.8%	2.3%	June 2013
North Carolina Central University	0%	1.8%	1.2%	7.3%	9.7%	0%	0%	June 2013
Nova Southeastern University	0%	3.1%	6.8%	39%	10.5%	0%	0.3%	June 2013
Ohio Northern University	0%	3.1%	0%	20.8%	22.9%	0%	0%	June 2013
Pontifical Catholic University  of Puerto Rico	0%	0%	0%	2.3%	3.2%	0%	2.3%	June 2013
Regent University	0%	0.8%	1.6%	26.8%	11.8%	1.6%	3.9%	June 2013
Rutgers State  University - Camden	0%	5.6%	2.2%	14.1%	7%	1.9%	34.1%	June 2013
Samford University	0%	5.4%	7.8%	31.9%	6%	1.8%	4.2%	June 2013
Seattle University	0%	3.7%	3.4%	19.5%	13.6%	0.3%	3.7%	June 2013
Seton Hall University	0%	10%	4.8%	13.5%	6.5%	1.9%	28.7%	June 2013
Southern Illinois University	0%	1.6%	2.3%	28.9%	11.7%	0.8%	0.8%	June 2013
Southern University Law   Center	0%	2.5%	1.9%	17.3%	11.7%	0%	11.7%	June 2013
St. Thomas University - Florida	0%	0%	2.3%	23.1%	8.3%	0%	0%	June 2013
SUNY Buffalo	0%	6.2%	10.5%	22.5%	9.1%	0.5%	1.4%	June 2013
Texas Southern University	0%	1.1%	2.1%	24.1%	10.7%	0%	0.5%	June 2013
Touro College	0%	1.6%	1.6%	32.4%	13.5%	0%	2.5%	June 2013
University of Akron	0%	5%	2.9%	22.3%	11.5%	0%	2.2%	June 2013
University of Arizona	0%	12.1%	2.7%	19.5%	16.8%	2.7%	12.8%	June 2013
University of Arkansas - Fayetteville	0%	2.3%	3%	39.4%	12.1%	3.8%	0.8%	June 2013
University of California - Irvine	0%	23.2%	5.4%	12.5%	8.9%	28.6%	1.8%	June 2013
University of Detroit Mercy	0%	3.8%	4.2%	17%	5.7%	0.9%	1.4%	June 2013
University of Kentucky	0%	11.6%	5.4%	25.9%	13.6%	3.4%	15.6%	June 2013
University of La Verne	0%	1.9%	1.9%	24%	5.8%	0%	0%	June 2013
University of Louisville	0%	6.3%	3.1%	34.6%	15%	1.6%	3.1%	June 2013
University of Maine	0%	1.1%	4.6%	10.3%	10.3%	1.1%	11.5%	June 2013
University of Memphis	0%	2.2%	6.7%	31.3%	9%	3%	1.5%	June 2013
University of Montana	0%	2.4%	1.2%	26.8%	11%	4.9%	14.6%	June 2013
University of New Mexico	0%	1.7%	9.2%	23.5%	23.5%	2.5%	5.9%	June 2013
University of North Dakota	0%	1.1%	2.2%	42.2%	17.8%	1.1%	10%	June 2013
University of Pittsburgh	0%	13.5%	4.5%	16.7%	9%	0.9%	5%	June 2013

JD@UVAUID: 3503603

看来 LSAT 的训练是有道理的。没有数据依托的 statement，充其量是一个 opinion 或者说是“想法”，不太可能成为经得起逻辑推理/论证的优化“选择”。你看我的几个贴子，数据多，推理也是以数据为基础的。

面向 LLM 的工作？？ 你去各个找工作的网站搜搜，看看有没有专门面对 LLM 毕业生的就业机会。LLM 不是几乎都去考纽约或加州的律师执照吗？为啥呀？没有这个执照能在美国找工作吗？有了这个执照又如何找工作呢？是去沃尔玛打包吗？还是找律师的工作？

找工作第一是身份问题，这对 JD 和 LLM 同样重要。其次是学校排名。剩下的就是机遇了。至于你在哪个州上学和工作机会之间的关系，不好说。

LexusUID: 3530515

JD@UVA 发表于 2014-6-11 10:35
看来 LSAT 的训练是有道理的。没有数据依托的 statement，充其量是一个 opinion 或者说是“想法”，不太可能 ...

我再说一遍，我先前的内容中从来就没有指向LLM在美国的找工作问题，参见原文“单纯提到LLM的机遇和机会，不知道先前的回帖你看了没，我已经比较明确的表示LLM在美就业很难，几乎不可能，因此我们更应该注重的是这9个月的体验和机遇，而不是真正的留美就业，因为相信和我一样，绝大多数人读LLM的最终选择都是回国。”考Bar必然是绝大多数LLM的选择，但留不留美是另一回事。所谓机遇，未必一定指工作，LLM与JD无优劣之分，无非是选择不同，LLM照样有机会，我认识俄罗斯的朋友，他们在读LLM时就依靠区位优势得以参加一些国际性的会议和研讨，参加一些活动来增加阅历，都是回国工作，经历了就是财富，谁说留美就一定好，无可争议，读LLM大多开阔的是眼界和人脉，毕竟未来的世界在中国，不管你承不承认。
论证是需要数据作支持，但并非绝对，数据的来源、你如何使用也是问题，社会科学的优势就在于运用数据，但绝不局限于数据，因为数据并非一定可信。
共勉吧，至于上述争议，仁者见仁，智者见智，我已经给你回复了也许对你有用的数据，想要就收下，兴许有用