14 年秋季提纲互改小组-issue 3/137

tesolchinaUID：2191404

黑白沉默 发表于 2014-10-26 17:25
根据老师的建议 修改如下：

Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students ...

根据老师的建议 修改如下：

Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.

I fundamentally disagree with the above statement that educational institutions should impede students to enter fields 表达  that are hard to succeed, in that it is neither possible to predict whether a field is easily 词性 to succeed in or not, nor wise to arbitrarily judge whether one will or will not be succeed词性in a given field. 这里的关键不是一个领域是否容易成功 而是这个学生能否成功  While some people believe that schools should make suggestions for students about their learning fields, I believe it (still) should be students' responsibility to make their own choices.

It is hard for educational institutions to know whether the certain fields is easily to succeed in or not.这个社会瞬息万变，学校作为主要教书育人的场所，得到的trend很有可能不准确或者已经过时；又或者因为学生听从了老师的建议都不选某专业，导致人才稀缺，不容易成功的专业变成了容易成功的。比如四年前金融危机，所以很多学校建议学生不要选金融专业，但是现在金融危机过去了，市场恢复繁荣，金融行业对人才的需求变大了，毕业生却少了，竞争压力也就少了，这个专业反倒成了很容易成功的专业。


你还是没有完全放弃之前的思路
这道题说的是某个学生能否在这个领域成功 而不是这个领域本身好不好成功 脱离具体学生谈领域是否容易成功 这个想法本身就有问题 而且也离题了

Moreover, it is also not wise for universities and colleges to arbitrarily judge whether one will or will not be succeed in a given field. 学生是在不断成长变化的，就算他们选专业的时候没有某些技能因而不适合某专业，他们也可以通过后天的努力来改进。我一个同学在中学阶段数学成绩不好，老师建议他以后选择文科专业，但是他喜欢数学，于是去了英国读书，现在在牛津大学数学系，已有数学方面的研究成果。

你在judge前面加上arbitrarily是曲解题意  
老师要预测学生能否成功肯定不会是任意的 肯定会有一些标准和方法 你可以质疑这些方法 但不能说是任意的 当然你后面的例子其实也提到了一些方法  应尝试从例子中提炼观点  



While some people believe that schools should make suggestions for students about their learning fields, I believe it (still) should be students' responsibility to make their own choices.每一个学生在学校里学习的过程中其实不仅是要学知识，还应该学习理智的进行思考。而他们做选择取舍的时候，也应该是锻炼或者说实践他们思考能力最好的机会。所以，无论是选择容易学成的专业还是不容易学成的专业，都应该是学生自己的选择。



dissuade: persuade (someone) not to take a particular course of action.

persuade: induce (someone) to do something through reasoning or argument.
由词义可知原命题和你这里说的学生自己做选择并无冲突

   

  


文章前半的思路勉强算是分情况讨论的思路，先是驳斥学校因为某个专业很不容易成功而阻止学生选择，再是驳斥学校因为学生不适合某个专业而阻止学生选择（参考了前面同学的思路哈）。然后是驳斥别人可能提出的学校应该给学生建议的观点。有一个concern就是文章前半和后面回应别人的质疑我是从不同的角度写的，不知道这样是不是inconsistent？


仔细想想你说一个领域本身不太容易成功也许说得通

be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position. 这个你好像没有回应

总的来说 你目前这个提纲还需要再调整


或许可以写成

1- 老师以就业为成功的标准 认为某些领域 就业机会不多 而劝阻 指出 就业非唯一标准  而且市场不断变化等等
2- 老师以学生的过去表现为依据 指出学生可能会成长 过去表现可能不是学生的问题
3- 有人提出 如果老师不劝阻 学生找不到工作或者表现不好怎么办  回应- 可以找对专业要求不高的工作 同时调整对成绩表现的预期 只要能毕业就行了  


恳请老师再次点评，谢谢！！

max940623UID：3559548

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-27 08:44
3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of stu ...

谢谢您的耐心点评，以下是修改过的版本，不知是否达到了有说服力有整体性的要求

TS:
It’s generally known that the educational institutions should undertake the responsibility to guide the students and prevent them from going astray.
However, just based on the judgment that in particular field an individual won't succeed, dissuading him from this field is unacceptable. Firstly, due to the purpose of education, the education institutions should not obstacle the students’ individualized development. In addition, the accuracy of the judgment is doubtful.

之前的Ts’ + Ts’’更改为ts1作为most challenging position，判断准确性和教育的目的调换位置，希望逻辑连接能通顺一些。

ts1 challenging position
Admittedly, the educational institutions with talent cultivating experience may have a greater chance to locate their students’ current strength and weakness, therefore some of advice from them could lead the students to the correct path. 举例曾经有谁曾在不适合自己的领域学习，收到导师指点才找到合适的（杨振宁？）
Nevertheless, in this case the first concern of educator is not whether the student will fail in current field or succeed in new field. Instead, they just consider that new field of study may fit better the student’s individualized development. 继续论述例子，说明challenging position提出的论据实际上并不是教育者觉得学生在一个领域会失败的劝阻，而是对学生个性化发展的建议。引出ts2教育的目

ts2 purpose of education+ definition of success
In fact, one of the main purpose of education is to encourage the students to explore themselves, which is prior to the pursuit on narrowly defined success like fame or achievement.教育不能追求狭义的成功而放弃个性化发展. Besides, Nobody could deny that self-realization is also a kind of success for human. 一些坚持在自己领域研究的学者，可能并没有获得瞩目的成果，但是他们的人生实现了自我没有遗憾也是成功

Ts3
The thesis above is all built on an assumption that the educator have the ability to predict one’s development in certain field. On the contrary, their assertion is quite probable to be wrong. As personal growth is a continuous progress, the temporary disappointing performance could not certainly indicate the failure in future. 举例，谁一开始不被看好，后来逆袭

max940623UID：3559548

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-27 09:11
根据老师的建议 修改如下：

Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students ...

谢谢您的耐心点评，以下是修改过的版本，不知是否达到了有说服力有整体性的要求

TS:
It’s generally known that the educational institutions should undertake the responsibility to guide the students and prevent them from going astray.
However, just based on the judgment that in particular field an individual won't succeed, dissuading him from this field is unacceptable. Firstly, due to the purpose of education, the education institutions should not obstacle the students’ individualized development. In addition, the accuracy of the judgment is doubtful.

之前的Ts’ + Ts’’更改为ts1作为most challenging position，判断准确性和教育的目的调换位置，希望逻辑连接能通顺一些。

ts1 challenging position
Admittedly, the educational institutions with talent cultivating experience may have a greater chance to locate their students’ current strength and weakness, therefore some of advice from them could lead the students to the correct path. 举例曾经有谁曾在不适合自己的领域学习，收到导师指点才找到合适的（杨振宁？）
Nevertheless, in this case the first concern of educator is not whether the student will fail in current field or succeed in new field. Instead, they just consider that new field of study may fit better the student’s individualized development. 继续论述例子，说明challenging position提出的论据实际上并不是教育者觉得学生在一个领域会失败的劝阻，而是对学生个性化发展的建议。引出ts2教育的目

ts2 purpose of education+ definition of success
In fact, one of the main purpose of education is to encourage the students to explore themselves, which is prior to the pursuit on narrowly defined success like fame or achievement.教育不能追求狭义的成功而放弃个性化发展. Besides, Nobody could deny that self-realization is also a kind of success for human. 一些坚持在自己领域研究的学者，可能并没有获得瞩目的成果，但是他们的人生实现了自我没有遗憾也是成功

Ts3
The thesis above is all built on an assumption that the educator have the ability to predict one’s development in certain field. On the contrary, their assertion is quite probable to be wrong. As personal growth is a continuous progress, the temporary disappointing performance could not certainly indicate the failure in future. 举例，谁一开始不被看好，后来逆袭

恳请老师再次点评:lol

lisa_CUID：2678347

3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.   
相关题目包括： 15、20、32、39、98、129、135、136、137  

To begin with, the goal of education is to establish students' ability of independent thinking and self-learning, and thus, dissuading students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed is out of the scope of the responsibility of education institutions. Educational institutions should not prevent students from choosing cold majors both from individual and social perspectives. Rather, it is individual student himself who should be responsible for his choice in study fields, and what education institutions should do is to provide informaiton of  job market data for students to reference.
主旨句：不论从教育目的、对个人影响和对社会影响来看，教育机构都不应该以专业就业前景为名直接干涉学生的专业选择，不过可以实时发布各专业就业数据给学生参考，由学生自由选择其专业。


First, from individual perspective, the interference of education institutions in students' major selection may kill students' potential talents.
论点一：首先，从个人角度来说，学校以专业就业前景为由干涉学生选择专业，无形中抹杀了学生可能的成才机会。
（学生个体差异大，兴趣和禀赋各不同，学校如果只是以大众标准的能否成功去判定一个领域，有可能会扼杀隐含的天才。举Mr.Bean例，Mr.Bean在牛津攻读电机工程硕士期间，大家都会觉得一个没有任何经验的工科生去做演员几乎是不太可能成功的，如果因为这样牛津不断劝说其放弃演艺事业专心学术，Mr.Bean也就不可能成为家喻户晓的喜剧明星）

Second, from social perspective, dissuading students to abandon fields of study which looks like hopeless in success now may hinder social progress and cause problems in social culture heritage.
论点二：最后，从社会角度来说，学校以专业就业前景为由干涉学生选择专业，这既不利于文化传承也不利于社会进步。
（另一方面，如果所有学生都选择更能成功的领域学习，一些冷门专业如考古将面临失传的尴尬，不利于文化传承。如考古。另一方面，社会快速变化，学校并不能够预测准确未来就业市场情况，长期来看，新兴产业容易出现结构性劳动力短缺，不利于社会进步。如智能机器人开发）

Finally, students should be responsible for their own final decisions in selecting study fields, and as for  education institutions, what they should do is to provide job market data for students' decisions.
论点三：也许有人质疑谁该为学生的选择专业负责，答案当然是学生自己，而关于教育机构应该在其中扮演什么角色的质疑，答案是教育机构可以提供各专业就业数据，以方便学生结合自身情况进行选择。

tesolchinaUID：2191404

lisa_C 发表于 2014-10-31 02:00
3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study ...

3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.   
相关题目包括： 15、20、32、39、98、129、135、136、137  

To begin with, the goal of education is to establish students' ability of independent thinking and self-learning, and thus, dissuading students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed is out of the scope of the responsibility of education institutions. Educational institutions should not prevent students from choosing cold majors both from individual and social perspectives. Rather, it is individual student himself who should be responsible for his choice in study fields, and what education institutions should do is to provide informaiton of  job market data for students to reference.
主旨句：不论从教育目的、对个人影响和对社会影响来看，教育机构都不应该以专业就业前景为名直接干涉学生的专业选择，不过可以实时发布各专业就业数据给学生参考，由学生自由选择其专业。

一开始你讲教育的目地是什么什么 但是到了后面这个点就不见了
这个对coherence的影响很大
cold major这明显是从汉语直译过来的 这就是我说的无知者无畏的英语
这道题的重点是学生可能在某个领域不成功 不是说这个领域本身不好就业不容易成功
即使冷门专业 也还是有人更容易成功的  
因此着眼点应该是学生 而不是领域
reference这个词又是汉语翻译的吧？这里用consider比较好



First, from individual perspective, the interference of education institutions in students' major selection may kill students' potential talents.
论点一：首先，从个人角度来说，学校以专业就业前景为由干涉学生选择专业，无形中抹杀了学生可能的成才机会。
（学生个体差异大，兴趣和禀赋各不同，学校如果只是以大众标准的能否成功去判定一个领域，有可能会扼杀隐含的天才。举Mr.Bean例，Mr.Bean在 牛津攻读电机工程硕士期间，大家都会觉得一个没有任何经验的工科生去做演员几乎是不太可能成功的，如果因为这样牛津不断劝说其放弃演艺事业专心学 术，Mr.Bean也就不可能成为家喻户晓的喜剧明星）

注意题目说的是 pursuing fields of study 不是career
你这个例子讲的不是学习领域- 离题！

Second, from social perspective, dissuading students to abandon fields of study which looks like hopeless in success now may hinder social progress and cause problems in social culture heritage.
论点二：最后，从社会角度来说，学校以专业就业前景为由干涉学生选择专业，这既不利于文化传承也不利于社会进步。
（另一方面，如果所有学生都选择更能成功的领域学习，一些冷门专业如考古将面临失传的尴尬，不利于文化传承。如考古。另一方面，社会快速变化，学校并不能够预测准确未来就业市场情况，长期来看，新兴产业容易出现结构性劳动力短缺，不利于社会进步。如智能机器人开发）

前面已经说了
要针对学生而不是针对领域  
按照你的思路 冷门领域不是会充斥着各种loser？


Finally, students should be responsible for their own final decisions in selecting study fields, and as for  education institutions, what they should do is to provide job market data for students' decisions.
论点三：也许有人质疑谁该为学生的选择专业负责，答案当然是学生自己，而关于教育机构应该在其中扮演什么角色的质疑，答案是教育机构可以提供各专业就业数据，以方便学生结合自身情况进行选择。



不看你的汉语都不知道你在回应可能的challenge
也许有人质疑谁该为学生的选择专业负责
请问这是质疑么 这只是提问啊



其实你这里按个人与社会层面来写是挺好的思路
为什么不试下赞成这个命题呢
个人觉得赞成好写很多啊

I agree that educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing majors in which they may not succeed as doing so would not only ensure students to enjoy their college life and pursue a successful career. It can also benefit the economic development of the society.  While some may argue that choosing a field of study is a personal decision, I believe that schools should help students to fully utilize their potential and the educational resouces.  

还是作为一个练习，你来写一下三个英语主题句和后面的展开吧  

另外，几个问题请你回答
1） 关于前面提到的表达问题，你觉得有什么好的解决办法？
2） 你认识到自己离题了么？试分析一下离题的原因。
3） 你目前写issue还有什么问题或困难？

ClaretZUID：3567572

I do not agree with that educational institutions should dissuade students from studying in the fields in which they are unlikely to succeed, because the universities ought to provide students with the opportunity to try what they want to study while the teachers in other educational institutions do not have the ability to judge whether the students are likely to succeed or not.
  First of all, in universities, as students are equipped with fundamental knowledge, they should be allowed to study what they like according to their own interests. 在大学的学习和研究中，成功并不重要，重要的是是否对研究和学习本身感兴趣。例如，斯蒂芬霍金入学剑桥时，由于身体原因，父母老师都认为他不会在天文领域有所成就，但他凭借着自己的兴趣和钻研最终获得了诺贝尔奖
In other educational institutions，teachers do not have the ability to judge whether the students are likely to succeed or not.其他的教育机构往往是基础教育或者职业教育，教师本人所掌握的知识有限，难以判断学生未来。举例：杨振宁中学时曾经因为做实验能力较差而被老师断定不适合从事物理研究，最终却在物理理论方面获得了诺贝尔物理学奖。
While some people may argue that educational institutions should help students avoid wasting time in the fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed, I insist that educational institutions should not dissuade students because they have the duty to provide students with plenty information but they should respect the students’ own choices.

tesolchinaUID：2191404

ClaretZ 发表于 2014-11-1 01:22
I do not agree with that educational institutions should dissuade students from studying in the fiel ...

Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.

I do not agree with that educational institutions should dissuade students from studying in the fields in which they are unlikely to succeed, because the universities ought to provide students with the opportunity to try what they want to study while the teachers in other educational institutions do not have the ability to judge whether the students are likely to succeed or not.

agree that不是agree with that …


  First of all, in universities, as students are equipped with fundamental knowledge, they should be allowed to study what they like according to their own interests. 在大学的学习和研究中，成功并不重要，重要的是是否对研究和学习本身感兴趣。例如，斯蒂芬霍金入学剑桥时，由于身体原因，父母老师都认为他不会在天文领域有所成就，但他凭借着自己的兴趣和钻研最终获得了诺贝尔奖

你的这个主题句和主旨句并不呼应
主旨句讲的是the universities ought to provide students with the opportunity to try what they want to study
主题句是they should be allowed to study what they like according to their own interests
然后你后面的汉语展开里面也有自相矛盾的情况 前面说成功并不重要 后面的例子却是拿诺贝尔奖
而且霍金并没有拿过诺贝尔奖 （汗）



In other educational institutions，teachers do not have the ability to judge whether the students are likely to succeed or not.其他的教育机构往往是基础教育或者职业教育，教师本人所掌握的知识有限，难以判断学生未来。举例：杨振宁中学时曾经因为做实验能力较差而被老师断定不适合从事物理研究，最终却在物理理论方面获得了诺贝尔物理学奖。

我觉得这里分不同教育机构并不很让我信服
教师本人所掌握的知识有限，难以判断学生未来  
后面的例子也未必能支持这一点  

我还是强烈建议你考虑写支持这个命题  你会发现支持好写很多

从个人、学校、社会层面都可以写

还有 你之前写的几个提纲 我点评后 你最好再修改一下 我看了以后再写全文

ClaretZUID：3567572

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-2 00:04
Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of stud ...

按照赞同观点重新写了一篇:lol：
I agree with the claim that educational institutions ought to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed, based on the reasons from the respects of student, school and society.
As for student, being dissuaded from pursuing fields of study in which the chance to succeed is small will help them avoid wasting time and find the fields that suit them. 劝学生不要研究难以成功的领域将会帮助学生认识到该领域目前的发展现状、自己的能力以及不易成功的原因，从而帮助他们避免浪费更多时间在这些领域中。同时，劝阻他们不要研究不易成功的领域能够使得他们尽早认识其他领域，从而结合自己的能力找到合适自己的领域。
As for schools, dissuading students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed will help the school have more successful alumni, and help the school develop more rapidly. 劝学生不要研究不易成功的领域将会使得学生成功概率更大，学校有更多的杰出校友。由于校友能够给母校带来荣誉，并且部分校友将会留校任教或者带来更多经济、学术、教育等资源，学校的名声和教学水平将会更好地发展。
As for society, dissuading students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed will saving many resources.学生研究不易成功的领域成功概率小，而研究过程又要花费一定的成本，即社会在该领域的收益成本比较低。劝学生不要研究该领域看了一节约社会成本。Some people may argue that educational institutions should not to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed because it is hard to judge whether the students are likely to succeed in this field or not. I, however, still agree with the claim because the educational institutions can judge the chance of success according to the development of the fields and the ability of the students.教育机构在这些领域中有较深入的了解，能够根据领域目前发展现状（如竞争激烈程度、行业发展前景）和学生的能力等对学生是否容易在这个领域取得成功做出判断。
写作困难：
由于不知道老师劝阻学生的事迹，难以举例。
另一个想法，不知是否合适：
在社会方面，劝学生不要研究不易成功的领域可以保持各个行业的平衡发展。例如劝阻学生从事就业压力大的行业可以保证各个行业都有从业人员。

raikkonen36UID：2871931

Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.

It is fairly necessary for educational institutions, majorly teachers, to provide instructions for students to decide which field to pursue. Nonetheless, it is always presumptuous that educational institutions claim that students are unlikely to succeed in the fields and dissuade them from pursuing those fields. In fact, when students decide which fields to pursue, students themselves determine which fields they should pursue, under the instructions provided by teachers.

1.        It is fairly necessary for educational institutions, majorly teachers, to provide instructions for students to decide which field to pursue. 因为，学生还处在学习阶段，知识欠缺，尤其是没有经验，需要老师的指导，否则的话，学生容易走上弯路，甚至误入歧途。举例，青少年犯罪的一个很重大的原因是没有接受良好的教育。
2.        Nonetheless, it is always presumptuous that educational institutions point out that students are unlikely to succeed in the fields and dissuade them from pursuing those fields. 因为所有的研究领域都具有一定的不可预测性。例如：普朗克的导师就劝诫普朗克不要在继续研究物理，因为他认为物理已经很完善了，但是普朗克没有放弃自己的爱好，几十年之后在物理量子论方面取得了巨大的成就；
3.        In fact, when students decide which fields to pursue, students themselves determine which fields they should pursue, under the instructions provided by teachers.  举例：今年的诺贝尔奖，经济学家Tirole, 他开始的修的phd是数学，但是他发现自己真正的兴趣在经济，从而转去学经济，但是后来常常强调他在pursue数学phd时，得到老师的指导和现在的成绩分不开的。

tesolchinaUID：2191404

ClaretZ 发表于 2014-11-2 20:58
按照赞同观点重新写了一篇：
I agree with the claim that educational institutions ought to diss ...

按照赞同观点重新写了一篇：
I agree with the claim that educational institutions ought to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed, based on the reasons from the respects of student, school and society.

based on the reasons related to students, schools and society
注意表达


As for student, being dissuaded from pursuing fields of study in which the chance to succeed is small will help them avoid wasting time and find the fields that suit them. 劝学生不要研究难以成功的领域将会帮助学生认识到该领域目前的发展现状、自己的能力以及不易成功的原因，从而帮助他们避免浪费更多时间在这些领域中。同 时，劝阻他们不要研究不易成功的领域能够使得他们尽早认识其他领域，从而结合自己的能力找到合适自己的领域。


As for schools, dissuading students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed will help the school have more successful alumni, and help the school develop more rapidly. 劝学生不要研究不易成功的领域将会使得学生成功概率更大，学校有更多的杰出校友。由于校友能够给母校带来荣誉，并且部分校友将会留校任教或者带来更多经 济、学术、教育等资源，学校的名声和教学水平将会更好地发展。


As for society, dissuading students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed will saving many resources.学生研究不易成功的领域成功概率小，而研究过程又要花费一定的成本，即社会在该领域的收益成本比较低。劝学生不要研究该领域看了一节 约社会成本。Some people may argue that educational institutions should not to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed because it is hard to judge whether the students are likely to succeed in this field or not. I, however, still agree with the claim because the educational institutions can judge the chance of success according to the development of the fields and the ability of the students.教育机构在这些领域中有较深入的了解，能够根据领域目前发展现状（如竞争激烈程度、行业发展前景）和学生的能力等对学生是否容易在这个 领域取得成功做出判断。


我觉得这个提纲不错


写作困难：
由于不知道老师劝阻学生的事迹，难以举例。
另一个想法，不知是否合适：
在社会方面，劝学生不要研究不易成功的领域可以保持各个行业的平衡发展。例如劝阻学生从事就业压力大的行业可以保证各个行业都有从业人员。


我觉得上面的那个点比较好  

关于举例的问题
建议你看一下
https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1777232-1-1.html
82楼 思想实验可产生更切题的例证

tesolchinaUID：2191404

raikkonen36 发表于 2014-11-3 11:21
Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in ...

Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.

It is fairly necessary for educational institutions, majorly teachers, to provide instructions for students to decide which field to pursue. Nonetheless, it is always presumptuous that educational institutions claim that students are unlikely to succeed in the fields and dissuade them from pursuing those fields. In fact, when students decide which fields to pursue, students themselves determine which fields they should pursue, under the instructions provided by teachers.

1.        It is fairly necessary for educational institutions, majorly teachers, to provide instructions for students to decide which field to pursue. 因为，学生还处在学习阶段，知识欠缺，尤其是没有经验，需要老师的指导，否则的话，学生容易走上弯路，甚至误入歧途。举例，青少年犯罪的一个很重大的原因 是没有接受良好的教育。

你的例子又离题了
这里讲的是选专业
怎么扯到青少年犯罪呢

我还是比较担心你这个点和下面的点有矛盾
或许你可以说老师应该提供信息而不是提供指引
然后让学生做informed decision


2.        Nonetheless, it is always presumptuous that educational institutions point out that students are unlikely to succeed in the fields and dissuade them from pursuing those fields. 因为所有的研究领域都具有一定的不可预测性。例如：普朗克的导师就劝诫普朗克不要在继续研究物理，因为他认为物理已经很完善了，但是普朗克没有放弃自己的 爱好，几十年之后在物理量子论方面取得了巨大的成就；

这里需要强调老师对这个领域的看法未必准确

3.        In fact, when students decide which fields to pursue, students themselves determine which fields they should pursue, under the instructions provided by teachers.  举例：今年的诺贝尔奖，经济学家Tirole, 他开始的修的phd是数学，但是他发现自己真正的兴趣在经济，从而转去学经济，但是后来常常强调他在pursue数学phd时，得到老师的指导和现在的成 绩分不开的。

这里主题句的措辞要注意 不是当学生决定  而是当学生面临选择的时候 应该由学生来决定
我不太明白老师的指引指的是什么指引
从你的例子来看 老师的指导似乎和选专业并没有关系


你这个提纲基本做到了主旨句和主题句之间的呼应 但在具体措辞和举例方面还需要打磨 就目前这个提纲估计写出来的全文还是会很有问题

raikkonen36UID：2871931

It is fairly necessary for educational institutions to provide assistance for students to decide which field to pursue. Nonetheless, it is always presumptuous that educational institutions claim that students are unlikely to succeed in the fields and dissuade them from pursuing those fields. In fact, educational institutions always encourage students to pursue the field that they choose, and help them, when necessary.  



1.        It is fairly necessary for educational institutions to provide assistance for students to decide which field to pursue. 因为，学生还处在学习阶段，知识欠缺，尤其是没有经验，需要老师的指导，否则的话，学生容易走上弯路。举例，在报考专业时，我们常常会问关于选专业的一系列问题，现在选这个专业的人数，就业形势，学校所在的城市等等。
2.        Nonetheless, it is always presumptuous that educational institutions point out that students are unlikely to succeed in the fields and dissuade them from pursuing those fields. 因为所有的研究领域都具有一定的不可预测性，往往老师很难把握。例如：普朗克的导师就劝诫普朗克不要在继续研究物理，因为他认为物理已经很完善了，但是普朗克没有放弃自己的爱好，几十年之后在物理量子论方面取得了巨大的成就；
3.        In fact, educational institutions always encourage students to pursue the field that they choose, and help them, when necessary.  举例：林毅夫在北大学习经济学时，恰好经济学家舒尔茨，经济学诺贝尔奖，到北大做演讲，并有幸成为他的助理，当他问林毅夫想去美国读phd吗，林说当然，林当时没在意，但是正是舒尔茨的推荐让他进入芝加哥大学，并成为他的学生。

lisa_CUID：2678347

tesolchina 发表于 2014-10-31 10:06
3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of stu ...

Lisa
首先，回答问题
1）        关于前面提到的表达问题，你觉得有什么好的解决办法？
感觉背诵范文是有用的，但是费时间，之前有背范文的时候写起来流畅很多看起来也不会面目可憎。
2） 你认识到自己离题了么？试分析一下离题的原因。
写的时候有点感觉到没有把住关键点，目前还在拣到例子就开心的阶段，一个是抓问题关键能力还不足，另一个是例子库匮乏
3） 你目前写issue还有什么问题或困难？
例子，地道表达，限时写的能力（一限时就现原型）

再来试写一下王老师给出的主旨
3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.   
相关题目包括： 15、20、32、39、98、129、135、136、137  


I agree that educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing majors in which they may not succeed as doing so would not only ensure students to enjoy their college life and pursue a successful career. It can also benefit the economic development of the society.  While some may argue that choosing a field of study is a personal decision, I believe that schools should help students to fully utilize their potential and the educational resouces.  

TS1: From individual perspective, with the help of educational institutions in major selection, students can enjoy their campus life better and do better preparation for future career.
（首先，有助学生更好享受校园生活。学校综合学生能力兴趣、学科特点前景等信息劝阻学生选择不合适的专业，可以避免学生因为个人能力不足学习吃力甚至厌学的情况发生，也可能避免学生盲目选择课业负担过重无法正常参与校园内的其他活动。此外，有助于学生未来职业发展。学校帮助学生避开不合适专业，学生在合适领域成功概率大大增加。）

TS2: From social perspective, dissuading students from pursuing majors in which they may not succeed can benefit the economic development of the whole society.
（减少经济学中所谓的结构性失业，降低失业率。如果当前市场金融人才过剩ＩＴ人才缺乏，学校就可以引导学生选择计算机专业劝阻学生选择金融业。这样未来有更多的计算机人才弥补ＩＴ业的人才需求缺口，也同时提高金融专业学生就业率。对于社会来讲就是结构性失业的减少，ＩＴ业产能增加，而金融业不至于浪费劳动力，这样即促进生产力、有利发展经济）

TS3:　While some people may suspect whether educational institutions have the ability to make reasonable decision for every student, educational institutions should increase its effort and resources to help students fully utilize their potential and the educational resources. .
也许有人会说教育机构不可能有精力对每一个学生悉心了解给出合适的指导，对于这个问题，学校应当增加这方面的投入帮助学生利用自己的潜能和一切可用资源。
(譬如，设置专门的指导中心并增加人员投入更细心帮助学生挑选专业。另外，也可以引进先进的性格测试能力测试系统帮助学生更好地定位。这样可以提高学校判断的准确度。)

王老师，这个我感觉很难想得到例子，不知道有没有什么可以参考的材料推荐？

tesolchinaUID：2191404

lisa_C 发表于 2014-11-8 01:56
Lisa
首先，回答问题
1）        关于前面提到的表达问题，你觉得有什么好的解决办法？

再来试写一下王老师给出的主旨
3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.
相关题目包括： 15、20、32、39、98、129、135、136、137

I agree that educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing majors in which they may not succeed as doing so would not only ensure students to enjoy their college life and pursue a successful career. It can also benefit the economic development of the society.  While some may argue that choosing a field of study is a personal decision, I believe that schools should help students to fully utilize their potential and the educational resources.

按照我的思路来写的前两个中间段都挺好 但是第三个点 你可能没有理解我的意思
我想说的是 对方可能认为学生学什么是个人决定 学校无权干涉 但是其实学生的学习是耗费了公共资源的 因此学校有责任帮助学生发挥潜能 善用社会资源

关于例子的缺乏 我还是推荐使用思想实验编例子  尤其是这类教育类的题目

lisa_CUID：2678347

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-8 23:54
再来试写一下王老师给出的主旨
3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade stud ...

去看了思想实验，顺便把整个６分帖都翻了一遍，受到不少启发，希望能在练习中落实^^

3) Educational institutions have a responsibility to dissuade students from pursuing fields of study in which they are unlikely to succeed.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.   
相关题目包括： 15、20、32、39、98、129、135、136、137  


I agree that educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing majors in which they may not succeed as doing so would not only ensure students to enjoy their college life and pursue a successful career. It can also benefit the economic development of the society.  While some may argue that choosing a field of study is a personal decision, I believe that schools should help students to fully utilize their potential and the educational resouces.  

TS1: From individual perspective, with the help of educational institutions in major selection, students can enjoy their campus life better and do better preparation for future career.
（首先，有助学生更好享受校园生活。学校综合学生能力兴趣、学科特点前景等信息劝阻学生选择不合适的专业，可以避免学生因为个人能力不足学习吃力甚至厌学的情况发生，也可能避免学生盲目选择课业负担过重无法正常参与校园内的其他活动。此外，有助于学生未来职业发展。学校帮助学生避开不合适专业，学生在合适领域成功概率大大增加。）

TS2: From social perspective, dissuading students from pursuing majors in which they may not succeed can benefit the economic development of the whole society.
（减少经济学中所谓的结构性失业，降低失业率。如果当前市场金融人才过剩ＩＴ人才缺乏，学校就可以引导学生选择计算机专业劝阻学生选择金融业。这样未来有更多的计算机人才弥补ＩＴ业的人才需求缺口，也同时提高金融专业学生就业率。对于社会来讲就是结构性失业的减少，ＩＴ业产能增加，而金融业不至于浪费劳动力，这样即促进生产力、有利发展经济）

TS3: While some people may suspect whether educational institutions should interfer students' personal decisions, educational institutions should make efforts to help students fully utilize their potential and the educational resources.
对方可能认为学生学什么是个人决定学校无权干涉, 但是其实学生的学习是耗费了公共资源的,因此学校有责任帮助学生发挥潜能,善用社会资源
(在许多国家譬如美国和中国，教育机构往往得到国家补贴，学生同时也享受到教育的好处，因而学生的学习实际上也是耗费了公共资源的。譬如学校的设置国家奖学金、或者来自社会团体的奖学金。所以学生的选择专业本身就不仅仅是个人问题，学校有责任引导学生正确选择专业，考虑学生个人情况同时迎合社会需求。)


王老师我这个能不能修改一下您的第三点，变成新主旨题纲？

I agree that educational institutions should dissuade students from pursuing majors in which they may not succeed as doing so would not only ensure students to enjoy their college life and pursue a successful career. It can also benefit the economic development of the society.  While some may suspect whether educational institutions have the ability to make reasonable decision for every student, educational institutions should increase its effort and resources to help students fully utilize their potential and the educational resources.