issue 127 (prepare for 207--7)

LSDUID: 157855

127."Facts are stubborn things. They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions."

Different people have different ideas about facts, some assert that facts are stubborn things and cannot be changed, while others hold that facts can be altered by people's wishes and inclinations or the dictates of persons' passions. In my opinion, some facts can be changed with the help of contemporary high-tech to meet people's needs while others, especially some history facts, cannot be altered.

Today, with the rocket development of technology, people can not only savor convenient and comfortable lives, but also change some facts by their strong wishes and inclinations. These phenomena, however, are also great impulses of societies' evolution. Due to the wishes of pursuing longevity, people have done enormous work and research about modern medicine. Now mature medical treatments have already changed some facts. For example, doctors have already conquered tuberculosis, which was defined as incurable disease several years ago, so Facts to the patients are not death but hope. Due to the wishes and inclinations of wealth, similarly, scientist now can change weather, which is absolutely facts and cannot be altered before, to help farmers enrich their crops and make more money. Due to the wish of democratic and free society, human beings finally change the facts that rights and fortune are only belonging to kings and nobilities in feudal societies, and win their own benefit and build up democratic and equal societies in many countries. From what I state above, we can see that sometimes facts cannot be defined as stubborn things and can be altered by people's wishes and inclination or passions.

Moreover, if people think facts are stubborn things, they will lose passions and ambition for a glorious future. Just imagine that a person who was born in a poor family, if he always keeps in mind that poverty, hungry, ignorance and discrimination are facts which cannot be changed, he will absolutely loose encouragement to change these dissatisfaction things and be used to such live. So what's the result? People who are rich and authorities will rule forever, and people who are poor and misery will suffer from sadness from one generation to another. All of these should be attribute to the wrong concept people believed--- facts are stubborn and cannot be altered by their wishes and inclinations and passions. After all, these are undesired for our society and the only solution is that people should challenge dissatisfaction facts and make changes of them.

Admittedly, as far as history facts are concern, people should not try to change these history events and facts to meet their needs. Recently, I read in the newspaper that some Japanese historians fabricated that Japan didn't invade China; the war between China and Japan was not result from Japanese government’s mistake and barbarity. Obviously, in order to attain some base purpose, Japanese have tampered history facts, which should not be altered and must be clearly remembered by both Chinese and Japanese. This action has evoked great angry in China, and I think those historians must keep in mind the facts and take the responsibility of their immoral actions.

In sum, whether facts can or cannot be changed, should be considered in a case-by-case basis. For one thing, people should try hard to alter those unwilling facts, for another, people should be honesty to history facts even those facts betray their wish and inclination.  

谢谢拍砖！:p

foreverlovesUID: 166930

with the rocket development of technology

rocket 好象不可以做形容词的吧，有没有这样的用法呢，举个例子吧

语言很流畅，例子也不错，第三段写了如果怎样做，会有怎样后果，是属于深化了主题呢，还是离开讨论的问题呢，正在思考，尝试借鉴

LSDUID: 157855

谢谢楼上的意见！
b2相当于b1的反说:如果人们认定有些facts are stubborn things则会失去斗志，应该不算是跑题吧！
欢迎讨论！

LSDUID: 157855

求助：
今天看了老外280里面的一片同题文章，有点怀疑自己b1里面的几个例子算不算是facts,或者充其量是phenomenon.因为对现代人来说它们肯定不是facts.
大家帮忙看看阿！

blur13_0UID: 150275

No.1 issue 127 (prepare for 207--7)
127."Facts are stubborn things. They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions."  

关键词：fact stubborn wishes inclinations passions

Different people have different ideas about facts, some assert that facts are stubborn things and cannot be changed, while others hold that facts can be altered by people's wishes and inclinations or the dictates of persons' passions. In my opinion, some facts can be changed with the help of contemporary high-tech to meet people's needs while others, especially some history facts, cannot be altered.succinct beginning, studying

Today, with the rocket development of technology, people can not only savor convenient and comfortable lives, but also change some facts by their strong wishes and inclinations. These phenomena, however, are also great impulses of societies' evolution. Due to the wishes of pursuing longevity, people have done enormous work and research abouton如何 modern medicine. Now mature medical treatments have already changed some facts. For example, doctors have already conquered tuberculosis, which was defined as incurable disease several years ago, so Facts to the patients are not death but hope. Due to the wishes and inclinations of wealth, similarly, scientist now can change weather, which is absolutely facts and cannot be altered before, to help farmers enrich their crops and make more money. Due to the wish of democratic and free society, human beings finally change the facts that rights and fortune are only belonging to kings and nobilities in feudal societies, and win their own benefit and build up democratic and equal societies in many countries. From what I state above, we can see that sometimes facts cannot be defined as stubborn things and can be altered by people's wishes and inclination or passions.excellent examples, vary from…to…., but the third case is not develop well enough in that it is a bit out of the guidance of TS, and meanwhile, if not technologies, with what did people change the original social democratic situation?

Moreover, if people think facts are stubborn things, they will lose passions and ambition for a glorious future. Just imagine that a person who was born in a poor family, if he always keeps in mind that poverty, hungry, ignorance and discrimination are facts which cannot be changed, he will absolutely loose encouragement to change these dissatisfaction things and be used to such live. So what's the result? People who are rich and authorities will rule forever, and people who are poor and misery will suffer from sadness from one generation to another. All of these should be attribute to the wrong concept people believed--- facts are stubborn and cannot be altered by their wishes and inclinations and passions. After all, these are undesired for our society and the only solution is that people should challenge dissatisfaction facts and make changes of them.

Admittedly, as far as history facts are concern, people should not try to change these history events and facts to meet their needs. Recently, I read in the newspaper that some Japanese historians fabricated that Japan didn't invade China; the war between China and Japan was not result from Japanese government’s mistake and barbarity. Obviously, in order to attain some base purpose, Japanese have tampered history facts, which should not be altered and must be clearly remembered by both Chinese and Japanese. This action has evoked great angry in China, and I think those historians must keep in mind the facts and take the responsibility of their immoral actions.patriotic case!!! Nevertheless, for my part, the statement above is a bit misleading in that, the topic emphasize “can or cannot”, but it seems that “should or should not” are paid too much attention to cogently respond to the issue.

In sum, whether facts can or cannot be changed, should be considered in a case-by-case basis. For one thing, people should try hard to alter those unwilling facts, for another, people should be honesty to history facts even those facts betray their wish and inclination. too much “should” rather than “can or cannot” according to different conditions.
To sum up, this is a good essay, not only with the concise structure but fluent language… ;) .I am studying

LSDUID: 157855

谢谢blur13_0 的认真修改

but the third case is not develop well enough in that it is a bit out of the guidance of TS
意见很对，这个与ts中强调的high-tech的确没有什么关系，我想例子还是要保留，将ts中的这个关于技术的限定去掉好了。

the statement above is a bit misleading in that, the topic emphasize “can or cannot”, but it seems that “should or should not” are paid too much attention to cogently respond to the issue.
这里用should or should not 的确有些感情色彩了，主要是我是中国人嘛，很难用外国人那种客观的评价对待这件事情:p. 呵呵，考试中还是应该强调historians cannot change such facts 以及他对社会的不利影响.

panda2727UID: 138271

“as far as history facts are concern”（concerned）

写得很流畅，向楼主的语言学习！

不能改变的facts的论证中，你是从历史上说明，历史上的facts是不能改变的。我认为历史上的facts这一方面是属于不能改变的facts即真理，的一部分。应该在此段开始先给出总的不能改变的facts的描述，再从历史的角度去证明。

中日这个例子我认为不是很典型。可能其他非亚洲国家的人可能并不知道日本不承认是否侵略这种事情。对他们而言，不关心这个。

我认为B1中应该算是facts。因为fact本来就是有一定条件的，在以前的哪个条件下就是，只是现在这个条件不是了。

PS: 破折号是几根短线？

这是我最近的文章，近来看看吧。谢谢。
http://211.151.90.54/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=244091
http://211.151.90.54/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243516
http://211.151.90.54/bbs/showthread.php?s=&threadid=243728

LSDUID: 157855

谢谢panda2727:p

不能改变的facts的论证中，你是从历史上说明，历史上的facts是不能改变的。我认为历史上的facts这一方面是属于不能改变的facts即真理，的一部分。应该在此段开始先给出总的不能改变的facts的描述，再从历史的角度去证明。
nod :p 不过定义真理还是有点难度的，呵呵，说不定以后人类发展到能用其他理论来解释1+1<>2呢:p,楼上有什么好建议么？

PS: 破折号是几根短线？
two--in my opinion

九月爱上乒乓球UID: 151821

LSD的icon有特色，赞。

占座。

LSDUID: 157855

谢谢九月！:p

九月爱上乒乓球UID: 151821

127."Facts are stubborn things. They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions."

Different people have different ideas about facts, some assert that facts are stubborn things and cannot be changed, while others hold that facts can be altered by people's wishes and inclinations or the dictates of persons' passions. In my opinion, some facts can be changed with the help of contemporary high-tech to meet people's needs while others, especially some history facts, cannot be altered.

Today, with the rocket development of technology, people can not only savor convenient and comfortable lives, but also change some facts by their strong wishes and inclinations. 如果这是一个ts，不要用not only...but also...这是一个并列，前后就都要论证呢，但是之要说明可以被change就可以了，前面的话多余。These phenomenas, however, are also great impulses ofto societies' evolution.为什么是however？和also矛盾啊 Due to the wishes of pursuing longevity, people have done enormous work and research about modern medicine. Now mature medical treatments have already changed some facts. For example, doctors have already conquered tuberculosis, which was defined as incurable disease several years ago, so Facts to the patients are not death but hope. Due to the wishes and inclinations of wealth, similarly, scientist now can change weather, which is absolutely facts and cannot be altered before, to help farmers enrich their crops and make more money. Due to the wish of democratic and free society, human beings finally change the facts that rights and fortune are only belonging to kings and nobilities in feudal societies, and win their own benefit and build up democratic and equal societies in many countries. From what I state above, we can see that sometimes facts cannot be defined as stubborn things and can be altered by people's wishes and inclination or passions.

这一段意思写的明确，不错，语言还是有点罗嗦，举例子的时候不一定非要说“for example”；TS写的要再明确一点。

Moreover, if people think facts are stubborn things, they will lose passions and ambition for a glorious future. 这和题目应该就没有关系，题目让我们讨论的是facts到底是不是顽固的，而不是为什么我们不能这样认为阿，除非你说如果事实是固定的，世界会如何如何，算是反证呢。后面走题了Just imagine that a person who was born in a poor family, if he always keeps in mind that poverty, hungry, ignorance and discrimination are facts which cannot be changed, he will absolutely loose encouragement to change these dissatisfaction things and be used to such live. So what's the result? People who are rich and authorities will rule forever, and people who are poor and misery will suffer from sadness from one generation to another. All of these should be attribute to the wrong concept people believed--- facts are stubborn and cannot be altered by their wishes and inclinations and passions. After all, these are undesired for our society and the only solution is that people should challenge dissatisfaction facts and make changes of them.

Admittedly, as far as history facts are concern, people should not try to change these history events and facts to meet their needs. Recently, I read in the newspaper that some Japanese historians fabricated that Japan didn't invade China; the war between China and Japan was not result from Japanese government’s mistake and barbarity. Obviously, in order to attain some base purpose, Japanese have tampered history facts, which should not be altered and must be clearly remembered by both Chinese and Japanese. This action has evoked great angry in China, and I think those historians must keep in mind the facts and take the responsibility of their immoral actions.

Admitted是表示一种让步，你这一段不是让步，是你观点的一部分，直接解释就好了。

In sum, whether facts can or cannot be changed, should be considered in a case-by-case basis. For one thing, people should try hard to alter those unwilling facts, for another, people should be honesty to history facts even those facts betray their wish and inclination.


提纲还是有问题，body2应该是走题。
打个比方吧，题目说：九月是个坏同志，什么人都改变不了她。
你认为不完全是这样，你说：“人品好的人还是能影响她，而且如果我们认为她是个顽固不化的话她就如何如何呢。（所以我们还是认为她能被改变的好啊）”我们应该怎样看和事实如何不一定是一致的吧

九月爱上乒乓球UID: 151821

我就不爱说好话 LSD觉得不对的地方一定要说呢 ^_^

LSDUID: 157855

真心感谢！！

LSDUID: 157855

意见copy下来了，明天讨论喽:p
今晚撑不住了

九月爱上乒乓球UID: 151821

最初由 LSD 发布
[B]求助：
今天看了老外280里面的一片同题文章，有点怀疑自己b1里面的几个例子算不算是facts,或者充其量是phenomenon.因为对现代人来说它们肯定不是facts.
大家帮忙看看阿！ [/B]

既然不肯定，就去定义！！！！

自圆其说啊～～～

你可以说，事实不过是某个时刻人们认为的所谓的真理，其实事物不断变化，不可能一尘不变。

这样运动的观点，可以让观点更加深入。nod