argument65 我的第一篇（奶酪），总是难产，好在终于出来了

G猫UID: 192988

没有打算限时，连读题总共用了不到40分钟的样子。
刚开始复习agument，没啥心得，写的时候也没有感觉。对整体和细节的模式也还不是很清楚，就照着自己想的写下来了。希望大家能拍点砖，这样以后写就有方向了，谢谢了：）

The argument is well-presented, but not well-reasoned. There is insufficient evidence to draw the conclusion that the best way to improve profits in all of their stores is to discontinue stocking many of their varieties of imported cheese and concentrate primarily on domestic cheeses.

Firstly, the assumption that domestic cheeses are the best-selling and the most profitable cheeses throughout the nation is unfounded. The fact that the five best-selling cheeses at their newest store were all domestic cheddar cheeses from Wisconsin does not necessarily mean that they are the most popular cheeses among customers. It is possible that in the newest store, a sale-promotion policy was applied and the domestic cheeses were on a big sale while the import cheeses were not, resulting in a short term increase in the domestic cheese selling. Maybe when the promotion activity finishes, the customers will turn to the import cheeses. Moreover, even if the domestic cheeses are popular in Wisconsin, it does not mean that they are also the best-selling cheese in other places. Finally, best-selling does not necessarily equals to most profitable. It is possible that although the sales of import cheese pale compared with those of domestic cheese, the profit of selling each import cheese is much higher than that of domestic cheese and then the overall profit might be higher. To determine which kind of cheeses are more profitable throughout the nation calls for more detailed information.

Secondly, the result of the survey is insufficient evidence to conclude that there is a national preference for domestic cheese. Obviously, the respondents of the survey are the subscribers of the magazine and thus the representiveness of the survey is open to doubt. The subscribers of the magazine can not represent the citizens throughout the nation. Perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain regions of the nation and in these regions the domestic cheese is popular but we cannot know what about other places. For example, the relatively poor regions may prefer domestic cheese in view of its cheaper price while the wealthier regions may in favor of import cheese that is of better quality. And also perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain age frame of people, maybe older people, who prefer domestic cheese for their long formed habit. It is possible that the youth may prefer import cheese but they are not the readers of the magazine. We are not able to determine the respondent pool of the survey and thus cannot reach to a reliable conclusion that people on a national level will in favor of domestic cheese.

To sum up, the argument is problematic for its insufficient evidences and unreliable survey result. Before making a decision, the company should do more detailed and well-designed surveys to give more evidences supporting the business strategies.

chinhoiUID: 173262

占坑
我也写了篇65，互改吧
不过现在实在饿了，吃完下午回来看

吃完回来
拜读了，很佩服你的用词！
开头结尾都很简洁利落
中间分析也比较到位了
加油！

Secondly, the result of the survey is insufficient evidence to conclude that there is a national preference for domestic cheese. Obviously, the respondents of the survey are the subscribers of the magazine and thus the representiveness of the survey is open to doubt. The subscribers of the magazine can not represent the citizens throughout the nation. Perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain regions of the nation and in these regions the domestic cheese is popular but we cannot know what about other places. For example, the relatively poor regions may prefer domestic cheese in view of its cheaper price while the wealthier regions may in favor of import cheese that is of better quality. And also perhaps（这里连续3个词感觉有点别扭，可能是我的问题，不过我觉得用一个perhaps就够了） the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain age frame of people, maybe older people, who prefer domestic cheese for their long formed habit. It is possible that the youth may prefer import cheese but they are not the readers of the magazine. We are not able to determine the respondent pool of the survey and thus cannot reach to a reliable conclusion that people on a national level will in favor of domestic cheese.

thinking in GTUID: 195028

抢个沙发
下午看

The argument is well-presented, but not well-reasoned. There is insufficient evidence to draw the conclusion that the best way to improve profits in all of their stores is to discontinue stocking many of their varieties of imported cheese and concentrate primarily on domestic cheeses.开头没问题，个人觉得可以再具体些，就第一句话，展开怎么seems valid，然后however，解释not well-reasoned，不过限时的话可能会来不及

Firstly, the assumption that domestic cheeses are the best-selling and the most profitable cheeses throughout the nation is unfounded. The fact that the five best-selling cheeses at their newest store were all domestic cheddar cheeses from Wisconsin does not necessarily mean that they are the most popular cheeses among customers. It is possible that in the newest store, a sale-promotion policy was applied and the domestic cheeses were on a big sale while the import cheeses were not, resulting in a short term increase in the domestic cheese selling. Maybe when the promotion activity finishes, the customers will turn to the import cheeses. Moreover, even if the domestic cheeses are popular in Wisconsin, it does not mean that they are also the best-selling cheese in other places. Finally, best-selling does not necessarily equals to most profitable. It is possible that although the sales of import cheese pale compared with those of domestic cheese, the profit of selling each import cheese is much higher than that of domestic cheese and then the overall profit might be higher. To determine which kind of cheeses are more profitable throughout the nation calls for more detailed information. 攻击有力度

Secondly, the result of the survey is insufficient evidence to conclude that there is a national preference for domestic cheese. Obviously, the respondents of the survey are the subscribers of the magazine and thus the representiveness [representation？] of the survey is open to doubt. The subscribers of the magazine can not represent the citizens throughout the nation. Perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain regions of the nation and in these regions the domestic cheese is popular but we cannot know what about other places. For example, the relatively poor regions may prefer domestic cheese in view of its cheaper price while the wealthier regions may in favor of import cheese that is of better quality. And also perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain age frame of people, maybe older people, who prefer domestic cheese for their long formed habit. It is possible that the youth may prefer import cheese but they are not the readers of the magazine. We are not able to determine the respondent pool of the survey and thus cannot reach to a reliable conclusion that people on a national level will in favor of domestic cheese.无效调查，学习语言中

To sum up, the argument is problematic for its insufficient evidences and unreliable survey result. Before making a decision, the company should do more detailed and well-designed surveys to give more evidences supporting the business strategies.

汗，第一篇就能那么有力的攻击，期待猫猫的revised edition by native speaker, 对大家帮助很大啊。

To 楼下的so猫，firstly 、secondly就是顺序吧？个人意见，argu挑错误都是很紧张的，能把错误说清就好，范文也没有刻意的选择论述的先后顺序呀

so猫UID: 148633

手边没有galaxy的那个改作文的东西 就凑合改 你自己找一下我改的地方就好了

先说一下 记得以后把题目贴上来 虽然偶大概记得里面讲的虾米 但是好象要人家重新去翻题库不是很好吧~ 呵呵 下次注意哈

The argument is well-presented, but not well-reasoned. There is insufficient evidence to draw the conclusion that the best way to improve profits in all of their stores is to discontinue stocking many of their varieties of imported cheese and concentrate primarily on domestic cheeses. [很规矩的开头 没什么好说的 在我看来也算符合简洁明了的做法]

Firstly, the assumption that domestic cheeses are the best-selling and the most profitable cheeses throughout the nation is unfounded.[这句话怎么有点奇怪 既然是assumption 本来就是unfounded的啊 奇怪 不过可能是我自己的错觉吧 呵呵] The fact that the five best-selling cheeses at their newest store were all domestic cheddar cheeses from Wisconsin does not necessarily mean that they are the most popular cheeses among customers. It is possible that in the newest store, a sale-promotion policy was applied and the domestic cheeses were on a big sale while the import cheeses were not, resulting in a short term increase in the domestic cheese selling. Maybe when the promotion activity finishes, the customers will turn to the import cheeses. Moreover, even if the domestic cheeses are popular in Wisconsin, it does not mean that they are also the best-selling cheese in other places. Finally[这个词用得不好 前面又没有很明显表示次序的 这里怎么来的final的意思？], best-selling does not necessarily equals to most profitable. It is possible that although the sales of import cheese pale compared with those of domestic cheese, the profit of selling each import cheese is much higher than that of domestic cheese and then the overall profit might be higher. To determine which kind of cheeses are more profitable throughout the nation calls for more detailed information. [分析得不错 句子的气势还是满强悍的]

Secondly, the result of the survey is insufficient evidence to conclude that there is a national preference for domestic cheese. Obviously, the respondents of the survey are the subscribers of the magazine and thus the representiveness of the survey is open to doubt. The subscribers of the magazine can not represent the citizens throughout the nation. Perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain regions of the nation and in these regions the domestic cheese is popular but we cannot know what about other places. For example, the relatively poor regions may prefer domestic cheese in view of its cheaper price while the wealthier regions may in favor of import cheese that is of better quality. And also perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain age frame of people, maybe older people, who prefer domestic cheese for their long formed habit. It is possible that the youth may prefer import cheese but they are not the readers of the magazine. We are not able to determine the respondent pool of the survey and thus cannot reach to a reliable conclusion that people on a national level will in favor of domestic cheese.

整个body分析得很不错 存在的逻辑错误都找出来了
但是我有一个疑问
你是怎么样确定这两个攻击点的顺序的
从另一个角度说 就是你两个攻击点之间 两段之间有什么内在联系没
这也是一直困扰我的一个问题 即使argu的作用就是找出逻辑漏洞然后一一击破 但是这并不意味着argu的展开就能象实验记录一样1是1 2是2 文章内部还是需要有一定逻辑联系的
我并不是说你这样写不好或者不对
但是总觉得
虽然哪里有逻辑错误 错误是什么你明白
但却不知道怎么样清晰 准确地表达出来
换句话说 差一个整合分类列表格
所以文章感觉层次不是特别分明 不够一目了然
有点混在一块谈的感觉

当然具体怎么操作偶自己也在研究中~~~
等我明白点了总结总结看~

To sum up, the argument is problematic for its insufficient evidences and unreliable survey result. Before making a decision, the company should do more detailed and well-designed surveys to give more evidences supporting the business strategies.
一样的 很规矩的结尾 没什么好说的~~

bluetearingUID: 198925

逻辑不说，语言好的实在没法说，北美范文似乎也就这样了。

chinhoiUID: 173262

看了so猫的分析，才发现我一直都是按照题目里面的逻辑错误顺序写的
但事实上，如果能够层层推进，肯定论证更加有力
sigh～这个就很难了
本来还指望argument能拉点分呢
看来也不是那么容易的

so猫UID: 148633

最初由 thinking in GT 发布
[B]To 楼下的so猫，firstly 、secondly就是顺序吧？个人意见，argu挑错误都是很紧张的，能把错误说清就好，范文也没有刻意的选择论述的先后顺序呀
[/B]

是吗?
我记得以前needle姐姐还专门有那么一个帖子讨论argu行文的顺序问题
别的我忘记了
只记得她里面专门有一招 差不多叫 步步为营 的
简单就是
1 怎么怎么错
然后让步 即使1对 但2也不对
然后再让 即使1,2 都对 但是结论还是不能保证

一般一个conclusion肯定有几步一起推的
比如 从1到2 然后3成立 然后2,3 联合证明一个结论
那些按照needle的想法
先在body1讨论 3的正确性与否
然后body2讨论 从1是不是一定就到2
然后让步即使2, 3 都能到达 是不是一定能到结论

我觉得很多argu都是这个逻辑 按照上面的思路推论起来整篇文章就会非常流畅
当然 我自己也在考虑如何达到这样的境界

但是我个人还是觉得
段间错误还是要有联系的
那种流水帐的找错误方式我是不提倡的~~~

当然 是我个人不提倡的 如果时间要紧 那还是把错误找出来要紧

will_foreverUID: 193568

最初由 so猫 发布
一般一个conclusion肯定有几步一起推的
比如 从1到2 然后3成立 然后2,3 联合证明一个结论
那些按照needle的想法
先在body1讨论 3的正确性与否
然后body2讨论 从1是不是一定就到2
然后让步即使2, 3 都能到达 是不是一定能到结论


以下省略...... [/B]

arg还没开始，但猫猫的这段话我真的是不能领会。
能不能说的再具体一些
学习中……

goldenrockUID: 122870

The argument is well-presented, but not well-reasoned. There is insufficient evidence [和第三段那个一样，请解释一下] to draw the conclusion that the best way to improve profits in all of their stores is to discontinue stocking many of their varieties of imported cheese and concentrate primarily on domestic cheeses.

Firstly, the assumption that domestic cheeses are the best-selling and the most profitable [没说是most profitable啊，这应该是你的推论吧] cheeses throughout the nation is unfounded. The fact that the five best-selling cheeses at their newest store were all domestic cheddar cheeses from Wisconsin does not necessarily mean that they are the most popular cheeses among [all] customers. It is possible that in the newest store, a sale-promotion policy was applied and the domestic cheeses were on a big sale while the import [imported] cheeses were not, resulting in a short term increase in the domestic cheese selling. Maybe when the promotion activity finishes, the customers will turn to the import [ed] cheeses. Moreover, even if the domestic cheeses are popular in Wisconsin, it does not mean that they are also the best-selling cheese in other places. Finally, best-selling does not necessarily equals to most profitable. It is possible that although the sales of import cheese pale compared with those of domestic cheese, the profit of selling each import cheese is much higher than that of domestic cheese and then the overall profit might be higher. To determine which kind of cheeses are [is吧] more profitable throughout the nation calls for more detailed information.

Secondly, the result of the survey is insufficient evidence [这应该是is evident 或has evidence吧] to conclude that there is a national preference for domestic cheese. Obviously, the respondents of the survey are the subscribers of the magazine and thus the representiveness of the survey is open to doubt. The subscribers of the magazine can not represent the citizens throughout the nation. Perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain regions of the nation and in these regions the domestic cheese is popular but we cannot [don't比较好] know what about other places. For example, the relatively poor regions may prefer domestic cheese in view of its cheaper price while the wealthier regions may in favor of import [ed] cheese that is of better quality. And also perhaps the subscribers of the magazines are limited to certain age frame of people, maybe older people, who prefer domestic cheese for their long formed habit. It is possible that the youth may prefer import [ed] cheese but they are not the readers of the magazine. We are not able to determine [know] the respondent pool of the survey and thus cannot reach to a reliable conclusion that people on a national level will in favor of domestic cheese .

To sum up, the argument is problematic for its insufficient evidences and unreliable survey result. Before making a decision, the company should do more detailed and well-designed surveys to give more evidences supporting [to support] the business strategies.

[写得很好了。我认为还可以说说best way，还有supply and demand的对profit的影响]

[就上面几位的discuss,我对这题的看法：
1.newest store喜欢wisconsin的不代表所有stores
2.即使1对，last year不代表所有years
3.即使1、2都对，best-selling不代表most profitable

4.Cheese of the World的subscribers不一定遍布全国
5.即使遍布全国,说不定喜欢exported cheese的人都没定这杂志
6.即使4,5都对，an increasing preference也不知道是多少，说不定只增加了一个人

7.是不是best way，没有比较怎么能行呢
8.考虑supply and demand, 说不定停掉exported cheese的代价很高，还不如不停
]

[btw,请帮我看看新写的两篇限时，在下面，谢谢。]

lunaticUID: 150745

第一次写就写这么好真是牛啊，语言功底真不错，
挑几个别人没挑的小错吧
are popular in Wisconsin （题中只说来自Wisconsin的cheese受欢迎，没说在那受欢迎啊）
the respondents of the survey （reponents to the survey）
their long formed habit （habits）
are not able to determine the respondent pool （determine决定的意味更浓些，不如改成are not sure about the respongdents' pool）

G猫UID: 192988

最初由 so猫 发布
[B]手边没有galaxy的那个改作文的东西 就凑合改 你自己找一下我改的地方就好了

先说一下 记得以后把题目贴上来 虽然偶大概记得里面讲的虾米 但是好象要人家重新去翻题库不?.

以下省略...... [/B]

两个body是该有逻辑顺序的，但是就这道题来说。我认为两个证据都是想证明domestic cheese比较受欢迎，所以我觉得它们的关系是并列的。哪个放在前面没有关系，因为文章先提到了前一个，所以我就先攻击前一个错误了。
有其他逻辑关系的情况还没写过，所以也不好说。

段落内部的逻辑关系我也是有考虑的，b1来说，先是说best－selling可能是假相。接下来就算是best－selling在那里也不见得在别的地方也卖的好。最后就算是best－celling，也不见得就more profitable。可以说是层层让步的关系。只是我现在还不知道该怎么连接好，所以可能连的不是很顺，你也看到了finally实在是不知道该用什么了。

至于b2，也是提到了为什么不具有代表性的两种原因。也无所谓先后。

还有unfounded真的是乱用的，写到那里突然就不知道该用什么了，就随便用了个，自己也觉得很怪：）

G猫UID: 192988

1 怎么怎么错
然后让步 即使1对 但2也不对
然后再让 即使1,2 都对 但是结论还是不能保证

呵呵，这就是我原本打算的一样，可惜自己没处理好

一般一个conclusion肯定有几步一起推的
比如 从1到2 然后3成立 然后2,3 联合证明一个结论
那些按照needle的想法
先在body1讨论 3的正确性与否
然后body2讨论 从1是不是一定就到2
然后让步即使2, 3 都能到达 是不是一定能到结论

现在看得太少，还没这个体会，不过牢记在心了，谢谢猫猫，很有用的东西。

当然 是我个人不提倡的 如果时间要紧 那还是把错误找出来要紧

我觉得，在平时看argue的时候，就不该光是找错，要看看这些错怎么样组织比较好。经过训练，我觉得到时候怎么组织应该很容易看出来的。呵呵，不过纯属猜测。

so猫UID: 148633

G猫 真是用功啊 又碰到你了~~~

G猫UID: 192988

回chinboi：
可能是有点奇怪，我现在对argue之间的链接不是很熟，学习中。

回thinking in GT
不会写开头，研究了半天范文，也没找着适合自己的，可能没仔细看吧。不过我也怕开头也太长了后面没时间。所以想想还是简洁为好。下次学习一下你的：）

还有这个不会有revise版了，因为她也挺忙，我不好意思每写一篇都让她看：）
我写了好多篇issue了，也就让她修改了2篇。


还有谢谢goldenrock帮我订正的语法错误，觉得你的思路很好呀。我觉得argue不一定要把错误找全，关键是找到的错误一定要展开，具体到不能再具体为止。如果错误点太多，就没办法都展开了。

还有大家帮我改的我都记下了，不过我现在时间也挺紧。可能没那么快看完，不过我会抽时间看的。谢谢了：）