issue144同主题 艺术的价值

davidjackyUID: 135962

最初由 dream a dream 发布
[B]的确我也看到有人和你用一样的开头。觉得这样不太好的说。太太相似了。我认为斑竹应该在这里提倡自创，而不是模仿别人的开头。这样对大家都不好！而且会打击上文章的积极性。 [/B]

没有完全明确你的意思，一样的开头是指背景式开头还是句式一样，如果是前者，我觉得没有什么不好，自创从何说起？背景开头落伍了吗？如果句式的模仿倒要好好考究一番。我想这个问题值得再三探讨一下

sblbaslerUID: 175229

本来想给你改的，这么多都改了，这次算了，下次有新做PM我

dream a dreamUID: 198106

最初由 davidjacky 发布
[B][QUOTE]最初由 dream a dream 发布
[B]的确我也看到有人和你用一样的开头。觉得这样不太好的说。太太相似了。我认为斑竹应该在这里提倡自创，而不是模仿别人的开头..

以下省略...... [/B]

是句式吧，因为boyjim的那个开头当时让我琢磨了好一会，所以印象深刻，结果没过多久又看到一篇144也是In course of time and life, art develops 。。。。, which to us appears as 。。。. Embedded in 。。。。我不知道谁是这个模板的创造者，当然了，如果大家都认为这是一种借鉴，没有什么不好的，就当我没说吧。

dream a dreamUID: 198106

最初由 boyjim 发布
[B]从艺术家创造了价值--到--给社会长久的价值~这个过程是怎么样的呢?
我的思维其实比较简单~想不到那么多呢~ [/B]

需要这个过程吗?我觉得很容易走题。

boyjimUID: 125249

最初由 dream a dream 发布
[B][QUOTE]最初由 davidjacky 发布
[B][QUOTE]最初由 dream a dream 发布
[B]的确我也看到有人和你用一样的开头。觉得这样不太好的说。太太相似了。我认为斑?.

以下省略...... [/B]

这个是xdf庄子的一篇文章里面用过的~.....不敢用了~~~

龙非UID: 193190

艺术家创造了价值就可以give society something of lasting value了吗？未必。个人觉得只有流传开了，一代代传下来的才能称为有lasting value。每个时代都有n多的艺术家创造了m多的作品，但并不是都有lasting value的。。。，也不是说艺术家创造了一些有lasting value的东东出来，可以想像可以在历史中可能还有很多旷世之作，只是作家没有梵高那么好命，死了之后有人赏识。如果梵高之后不是他的妻子？朋友？忘了，不辞辛苦地推销他的画，而是一把火跟梵高陪葬了，还会有那么多传世名画吗？

ivyshoulUID: 195537

In the course of time and life, art develops in a glorious continuous value of beauty, which to us appears not only passed fragments but also future anticipation. Embedded with person's life and existing in unconsciousness, what invariably happened is that critics distort a multitude of arts, trapping talent artists in the abyss of poverty and forest of cliché. From my point [of] view, this is indeed the case, it is the artists who create art and accumulate their sole wisdom to our flourish civilization and culture, instead of the so-called intellectual like critics. [说了artist create art,但是题目要求的是lasting value,最好说一下这里的art就是你理解的lasting value]

Notwithstanding, one of the great tragedies in the world is that prominent and preeminent artists, nine out of ten, are talent and act a little nervous, treated as geek or crazy. But, it is their gifted idea and craving for originality that create excellence products and works which sometimes are even beyond our ability to construe and realize, upsetting the society and exploring a new area of art. Due to their intrinsic loneliness and unique characters, their contemporaries maybe understand them or not, but their true value of the works will not vanish or perish thanks to their contemporaries' ignorance. It is the smile of Mona Lisa of De Vinci, it is sunflower of Van Gogh, it is night watch of Rembrandt that demonstrate long lasting beauty to all mortal, although they are treated distinctively and diversely by their contemporary critics.

Admittedly, in the sphere of art, critics maybe the only one[单复] who have the ability to find, hear, construe the art, and eventually organize words revealing their exploration in the ocean of art. What is more, in most cases, artists take pride through critics’ comments on the mass media, which envelop the question with a vague air: artists create art of significant value, but devoid of critics, these works may never be demonstrated to the public as if they are shadowed in the river of history eternally. Nonetheless, query without solving, critics merely can be called art hunter, and artists are the beauty creator. It is possible that without any critics, without Grammy Award, without the movie Ray, Ray's greatness of music and his longing for manifesting his true music of heart and soul will be appreciated by mass and moved by the God.

In addition, more often than not, critics wrongly interpret art and commit immeasurable mistakes. Not only do their arbitrary minds demolish the talent of artists, but also misunderstand the profundity of meaning of art. Moreover, sometimes, art is unutterable, like C.E.M Joad said, "beauty, in terms of human meaning is meaningless", thus, do we still have to use our limited language to realize or even define a kind of art instead of showing to all the people? The answer is bitter and negative.

Retrospectively, despite of some positive functions of critics, of what import is art, critics and lasting value if there is no artist hook, line and sinker, if art only deserve a mass of craps, if artists have to turn to critics for flattering their works. Still, in my opinion, when artists create beauty, and "if beauty really means something, we must not seek to interpret it", said C.E.M Joad.

[语言好棒,景仰………
好强…
我今天写这篇写了一半夭折了
55]

鬼谷子UID: 159645

题目"It is the artist, not the critic,* who gives society something of lasting value."
*a person who evaluates works of art, such as novels, films, music, paintings, etc.
提纲
1伟大的艺术家总是疯子，疯子才能创造艺术，但是他们不善于表达，但艺术的价值是他们创造的
2评论家的工作负责把他们给我们翻译过来，他们有苦功没有劳功，所以艺术的价值不是他们创造的
3艺术是不是总需要一个评论家来给我们指手画脚呢？不需要
超时7分钟，粗略修改过，未修改前493字，修改后530字
正文
In the course of time and life, art develops in a glorious【gloriously】continuous value of beauty, which to us appears not only passed fragments but also future anticipation. Embedded with person's life and existing in unconsciousness, what invariably happened is that critics distort a multitude of arts, trapping talent artists in the abyss of poverty and forest of cliché. 【似乎你的开头都是这样的句式的，昨天看的87也是，是自己总结的吗？偏于晦涩了】From my point view, this is indeed the case, it is the artists who create art and accumulate their sole wisdom to our flourish civilization and culture, instead of the so-called intellectual like critics. 【语言很好，但是，有一个问题，你的观点交代的只是谁创造了艺术，而谁赋予艺术lasting value呢？没有提到啊】

Notwithstanding, one of the great tragedies in the world is that prominent and preeminent artists, nine out of ten, 【great tragedy ，nine out of ten，也见你在87里面用过，如果是自己总结的词句而形成的风格的话就非常好了】are talent and act a little nervous, treated as geek【这个是名词】 or crazy. But, it is their gifted idea and craving for originality that create excellence【excellent，注意检查】 products and works which sometimes are even beyond our ability to construe and realize, 【这里realize用的不好，你是想说understand吗】upsetting the society and exploring a new area of art. 【这半句引申过了点，首先是否艺术作品都能如此是未知的，而且，我们专注于value的问题就可以了】Due to their intrinsic loneliness and unique characters, 【这个前后的因果从语法和意思上都有问题，不应该是整个后面内容的原因】 their contemporaries maybe understand them【they指谁？作品？艺术家？而且，应该说，因为前面的原因，所以同时代的人可能不理解他们，怎么能说因为他们如何如何，所以同时代人可能理解他们或者不理解呢？一个原因如果造成两个结果？】 or not, but their 【the】true value of the works will not vanish or perish thanks to【due/owing to 】their contemporaries' ignorance. 【写的不顺，改一下是否会好点，Due to the intrinsic loneliness and unique characters of the artists, their works may not fully understood by their contemporaries.  But the true value of the works will not vanish or perish owing to the ignorance of the contemporaries.】  It is the smile of Mona Lisa of De Vinci, it is sunflower of Van Gogh, it is night watch of Rembrandt that demonstrate long lasting beauty to all mortal, although they are treated distinctively and diversely by their contemporary critics. 【你的论点是：因为艺术家都被看成是疯子，所以作品不被理解，而作品的价值又不会受到ignorance的影响。我觉得你对于这两点论述的都不够。一，艺术家的本质跟作品的价值的关系是什么呢？人们看的是作品，跟艺术家疯不疯又有什么关系呢？你应该证明，艺术作品表达的是艺术家内心的冲动和想法等等，所以疯子的表达就会难以理解。二，为什么ignorance不会影响，没有论证，作品本身不会为自己宣传，一定是需要他人的介绍和推荐的，那么这些人是谁呢？不是critic吗？你应该说是同时代人的ignorance无所谓，后代的critic会发掘出艺术品的value。最后一个问题就是，lasting value，这个是写144的同学普遍的问题】

Admittedly, in the sphere【这个似乎也是你喜欢的词，很好，形成自己的风格】 of art, critics maybe the only one 【为了对应这里，前面就不该是critics了，该用单数】who have the ability to find, hear【这个hear跟前后两个词的并列就不好了，我建议这里可以用动词短语的。ability to unearth the works hidden in the desert of history , to interpret the connotation covered with the façade of intricacy, 等等 】, construe the art, and eventually organize words revealing their exploration in the ocean of art. What is more, in most cases, artists take pride through critics’ comments on the mass media, which envelop the question with a vague air: artists create art of significant value, but devoid of critics, these works may never be demonstrated to the public as if they are shadowed in the river of history eternally. 【在87中见过你这种方法了，我觉得不好，如果想表达你的看法可以直接来说的，你假设人们是怎么认为的，然后再反驳不是很恰当，也不是很保险，因为你如何证明这是人们的想法，没有根据的】 Nonetheless, query without solving, critics merely can be called art hunter, 【这个提法很好hunter】 and artists are the beauty creator. It is possible that without any critics, without Grammy Award, without the movie Ray, Ray's greatness of music and his longing for manifesting his true music of heart and soul will be appreciated by mass and moved by the God. 【Ray的例子不好，那部电影也不算是critic】

In addition, more often than not, 【又是一个你常用的表达，呵呵，有时间给大家总结一下你总结词句的经验吧，我觉得这样很好，限时的时间选择语言上面可以节省很多时间】 critics wrongly interpret art and commit immeasurable mistakes. Not only do their arbitrary minds 【我也是这个想法的，critic的问题很明显在于他们的随心所欲上面，他们的标准就是自己的标准，所以，更多的时候他们只是按照个人情感来攻击别人而已】demolish the talent of artists, but also misunderstand the profundity of meaning of art. Moreover, sometimes, art is unutterable, like C.E.M Joad said, "beauty, in terms of human meaning is meaningless", thus, do we still have to use our limited language to realize or even define a kind of art instead of showing to all the people? The answer is bitter and negative. 【不错，这段简练而明确】

Retrospectively, 【又是一个】 despite of some positive functions of critics, of what import【？】 is art, critics and lasting value if there is no artist hook, line and sinker, if art only deserve a mass of craps, if artists have to turn to critics for flattering their works. 【没太看懂】Still, in my opinion, when artists create beauty, and "if beauty really means something, we must not seek to interpret it", said C.E.M Joad.

【可以说，语言的功底很强，论述上面，除了lasting 和一些细节，也基本不错，加油啊！】

boyjimUID: 125249

鬼哥永远都是那么深刻

likeying27UID: 195699

In the course of time and life, art develops in a glorious continuous value of beauty, which to us appears not only passed fragments but also future anticipation. Embedded with person's life and existing in unconsciousness, what invariably happened is that critics distort a multitude of arts, trapping talent artists in the abyss of poverty and forest of cliché. From my point view, this is indeed the case, it is the artists who create art and accumulate their sole wisdom to [U][our flourish][写反了] [/U]  civilization and culture, instead of the so-called intellectual like critics.

Notwithstanding, one of the great tragedies in the world is that prominent and preeminent artists, nine out of ten, are talent and act a little nervous, treated as geek or crazy. But, it is their gifted idea and craving for originality that create excellence products and works which sometimes are even beyond our ability to construe and realize, upsetting the society and exploring a new area of art. Due to their intrinsic loneliness and unique characters, their contemporaries maybe [U][understand them or not][hardly understand them],[/U]  but their true value of the works will not vanish or perish [U][thanks to their contemporaries' ignorance][如果是讽刺人家的话，就不好了]. [/U]  It is the smile of Mona Lisa of De Vinci, it is sunflower of Van Gogh, it is night watch of Rembrandt that demonstrate long lasting beauty to all mortal, although they are treated distinctively and diversely by their contemporary critics[U].[最后一句感觉写成了认识的局限性，你也想这样写吧，总觉的哪里怪，想到了```，把although提到前面去；although---，It is--。感觉强调“艺术的价值是他们创造的”一些][/U]

Admittedly, in the sphere of art, [U][critics]maybe[ the only one] [/U]  who have the ability to find, hear, construe the art, and eventually organize words revealing their exploration in the ocean of art. What is more, in most cases, artists take pride through critics’ comments on the mass media, which envelop the question with a vague air: artists create art of significant value, but devoid of critics, these works may never be demonstrated to the public as if they are shadowed in the river of history eternally. Nonetheless, query without solving, critics merely can be called art hunter, and artists are the beauty creator. It is possible that without any critics, without Grammy Award, without the movie Ray, Ray's greatness of music and his longing for manifesting his true music of heart and soul [U][will be appreciated by mass and moved by the God].[呵呵，看的有点想笑前面说只有critics才能懂得，怎么没有他们了，我们就都能明白lasting value了呢？PS：我不喜欢写一边倒的因为觉得自己很难自圆其说][/U]

In addition, more often than not, critics wrongly interpret art and commit immeasurable mistakes. Not only do their arbitrary minds demolish the talent of artists, but also misunderstand the profundity of meaning of art. Moreover, sometimes, art is unutterable, like C.E.M Joad said, "beauty, in terms of human meaning is meaningless", thus, do we still have to use our limited language to realize or even define a kind of art instead of showing to all the people? The answer is bitter and negative.

Retrospectively, despite of some positive functions of critics, of what import is art, critics and lasting value if there is no artist hook, line and sinker, if art only deserve a mass of craps, if artists have to turn to critics for flattering their works. Still, in my opinion, when artists create beauty, and "if beauty really means something, we must not seek to interpret it", said C.E.M Joad[U].[总的感觉还是可以的，呵呵，你快考了，好好加油吧，我暂时还在调整中，有需要会PM U 的，呵呵][/U]

boyjimUID: 125249

楼上的！你看得确实很细啊！谢谢！

giraUID: 188010

In the course of time and life, art develops in a glorious continuous value of beauty, which to us appears not only passed fragments but also future anticipation. Embedded with person's life and existing in unconsciousness, what invariably happened is that critics distort a multitude of arts, trapping talent artists in the abyss of poverty and forest of cliché. From my point view, this is indeed the case, it is the artists who create art and accumulate their sole wisdom to our flourish civilization and culture, instead of the so-called intellectual like critics.  再扣题一点，从lasting velue入手（我自己也没有，汗）

Notwithstanding,是作尽管用吗？觉得有点◎￥％×？ one of the great tragedies in the world is that prominent and preeminent artists, nine out of ten, are talent talented and act a little nervous, treated as geek or crazy. 建议段首给出鲜明的TS But, it is their gifted idea and craving for originality that create excellence products and works which sometimes are even beyond our ability to construe and realize, upsetting the society and exploring a new area of art. Due to their intrinsic loneliness and unique characters, their contemporaries maybe understand them or not, but 这样的话放到段首更容易让人明白主题 their true value of the works will not vanish or perish thanks to their contemporaries' ignorance. 个人意见：是什么就怎么说，考试时间有限，最好别在反着说不是什么上浪费时间 It is the smile of Mona Lisa of De Vinci, it is sunflower of Van Gogh, it is night watch of Rembrandt that demonstrate long lasting beauty to all mortal, although they are treated distinctively and diversely by their contemporary critics.

Admittedly, in the sphere of art, critics maybe the only one -->person who have the ability to find, hear, construe the art, and eventually organize words revealing their exploration in the ocean of art. What is more, in most cases, artists take pride through critics’ comments on the mass media, which envelop the question with a vague air: artists create art of significant value, but devoid of critics, these works may never be demonstrated to the public as if they are shadowed in the river of history eternally. Nonetheless, query without solving, critics merely can be called art hunter, and artists are the beauty creator. It is possible that without any critics, without Grammy Award, without the movie Ray, Ray's greatness of music and his longing for manifesting his true music of heart and soul will be appreciated by mass and moved by the God.

In addition, more often than not, critics wrongly interpret art and commit immeasurable mistakes. Not only do their arbitrary minds demolish the talent of artists, but also misunderstand the profundity of meaning of art. Moreover, sometimes, art is unutterable, like C.E.M Joad said, "beauty, in terms of human meaning is meaningless", thus, do we still have to use our limited language to realize or even define a kind of art instead of showing to all the people? The answer is bitter and negative.

Retrospectively, 学到了^_^ despite of some positive functions of critics, of what import is art, critics and lasting value if there is no artist hook, line and sinker, if art only deserve a mass of craps, if artists have to turn to critics for flattering their works. Still, in my opinion, when artists create beauty, and "if beauty really means something, we must not seek to interpret it", said C.E.M Joad.

好新颖的结尾的说，应该是语言比较诗话的人，但这样也有一个问题就是不好懂。结构上思路清楚，好像已经形成模板了。好厉害哦基本不超时，不像我，狂超，郁闷中。。>_____< 。。。。

giraUID: 188010

最初由 龙非 发布
[B]艺术家创造了价值就可以give society something of lasting value了吗？未必。个人觉得只有流传开了，一代代传下来的才能称为有lasting value。以下省略...... [/B]

豁然开朗，偶以前咋就没想到尼  :)