单独题目：244

beckyyeeUID: 8330

Most societies do not take their greatest thinkers seriously,even when they claim to admire them.

p.s. 大家圣诞节快乐！

paisleyUID: 64183

probably true.

1. what those thinkers talk about is far away from our mundane life. For that reason, they are not likely to interest many dicsciples.

2. Profound thinkers are, in many cases, the critics of the nation. in other words, "the conscience of a society". Quite often, they will hold opposite opinions to hot fashions or make unwelcome comment to what most peopole are eager of. Because of that, people will feel cross of them, or at least, get tired of their thoughts and words.

gteryyUID: 114434

1.有些社会确实存在这样的问题，但不是所有。基本不同意以上观点。
2.既然一个社会认可某个思想家为greatest，并且admire他，那当然会认真严肃的对待。难道人们会轻浮对待自己崇拜喜爱的人吗？
3.思想家很多，很多时候很难说谁是最伟大的，彼此会独到于某一方面。所以当某个社会问题比较突出的时候，人们就会倾向于求助在那方面思考很深的思想家，而忽略了其他方面的思想家。并不是不认真对待。不知道是不是可以举孔子的例子呢？中国人都很崇拜孔子，可是已经渐渐淡忘他了。（这个社会越来越不讲仁义道德了，气愤！）
4.总结一下吧。
反正不好写。期待更多观点。

angeikimUID: 4857

最初由 gteryy 发表
[B]我怀疑这种题目有没有意思，[/B]

我觉得这样的情况很普通。因为很多著名的学者或者思想家都在他们的时代是被普通人或者说是社会所拒绝的，比如加里略，尼采，梵高，等等。这个用画家来举例子比较轻松。
比较赞同paisley 的观点里面的[B]unwelcome statement[/B]  .
actually, if we take comtempary china into consideration we will find this situation is very common. for the so-called 'leader rules all'. (领导意志怎么说？)

angeikimUID: 4857

尼采 Nietz

gteryyUID: 114434

说实话，我对思想家这个名词没概念。我根本不知道什么是谁是思想家。完全是主观理解。加里略，尼采，梵高我都认识，不过从来没认为他们是思想家，虽然他们在我脑子里各司其职。1是物理学家，2是哲学家，3是画家，吼吼。
是我狭隘呀，那没办法，我受到的教育是这样的。我自己对这些劳什子也不感兴趣。。。自然就不懂了。
赶紧赶紧，斑竹快把中西文化差异比较大、对西方文化背景要求比较高的题目列出来，给我等练习。

angeikimUID: 4857

最初由 gteryy 发表
[B]说实话，我对思想家这个名词没概念。我根本不知道什么是谁是思想家。完全是主观理解。加里略，尼采，梵高我都认识，不过从来没认为他们是思想家，虽然他们在我脑子里各司其职。1是物理学家，2是哲学家，3是画家，吼?.. [/B]

又给我们增加工作量了。。okay,okay,  we will try :)

angeikimUID: 4857

最初由 yixiang 发表
[B]== [/B]

你怎么把你的文章给删除了呢？ 我还想帖一些我的想法呢，昨天刚刚把你的文章给打印出来想仔细看看呢。

in yixiang's 作文里面有提到THINKER 的概念，在现在的社会里面THINKER 实际上已经超越了以往他的旧的概念，包括了各个领域里面。我比较同意这个提法。
如果单纯的来看，THINKER 仅仅是思想家，可以说是哲学家，或者光用THINKING 工作的 ：）但是，如果是这样的话，其实在现在已经可以包含了很多领域了。
所以如果要是从这个角度来说的话，其实可以直接就把这个范围扩大了很多，比较不是那么难写了。:)

juanerrrUID: 113394

我又没有做过这个统计，怎么知道结果会是什么？
这个题目主要就是讨论社会对思想家的态度，
如果我来写，我就会这样立论：由于没有做过这样的统计，所以无法知道
是否大多数社会对思想家的态度是serious or not，但是从common sense来
分析，从可能的情况来分析，从自己想的来分析，对思想家的态度如何如何。。

angeikimUID: 4857

最初由 juanerrr 发表
[B]我又没有做过这个统计，怎么知道结果会是什么？
这个题目主要就是讨论社会对思想家的态度，
如果我来写，我就会这样立论：由于没有做过这样的统计，所以无法知道
是否大多数社会对思想家的态度是serious or not，但是从common sense来
分析，从可能的情况来分析，从自己想的来分析，对思想家的态度如何如何。。[/B]

give us some detailed plan :)

小丑鱼UID: 157722

Issue244
“Most societies do not take their greatest thinkers seriously, even when they claim to admire them.”
不知道到底那些thinkers才算greatest thinkers呢，我觉得一般的thinkers肯定不行的
在google上查greatest thinkers，发现以下资料

In September the BBC conducted an online poll asking "Who was the greatest thinker of the Millennium?"  We heartily agree with the result - the winner was Karl Marx! Here were the respondent’s top-ten thinkers:
1. Karl Marx
2. Albert Einstein
3. Sir Isaac Newton
4. Charles Darwin
5. Thomas Aquinas
6. Stephen Hawking
7. Immanuel Kant
8. Rene Descartes
9. James Clerk Maxwell
10. Friedrich Nietzche
One person said "Karl Marx’s ideas have had an immense meaning for people all over the world, both in thought and action." Another said "Karl Marx has inspired thousands of liberation struggles. He was the father of modern political thinking."
Albert Einstein came second, so both first and second places went to socialists. Einstein was a socialist, albeit not a revolutionary one. Regarding science though, he was definitely a revolutionary.
And another revolutionary, Charles Darwin, came fourth. Marx said Darwin’s theories provided the basis in natural science for the philosophy of dialectical materialism.

而在microsoft的encyclopidia中查，被它冠以the greatest thinker的有两人，是Aristotle和Shakespear
Shakespeare’s unrivaled popularity, but he remains our greatest entertainer and perhaps our most profound thinker. He had a remarkable knowledge of human behavior, which he was able to communicate through his portrayal of a wide variety of characters. He was able to enter fully into the point of view of each of his characters and to create vivid dramatic situations in which to explore human motivations and behavior.

A student of ancient Greek philosopher Plato, Aristotle shared his teacher’s reverence for human knowledge but revised many of Plato’s ideas by emphasizing methods rooted in observation and experience. Aristotle surveyed and systematized nearly all the extant branches of knowledge and provided the first ordered accounts of biology, psychology, physics, and literary theory. In addition, Aristotle invented the field known as formal logic, pioneered zoology, and addressed virtually every major philosophical problem known during his time. Known to medieval intellectuals as simply “the Philosopher,” Aristotle is possibly the greatest thinker in Western history, and historically, perhaps the single greatest influence on Western intellectual development.

这样的话，这些人实际上是被taken seriously了的，我看大多数赞同题目的文章里举的有些人好象我都没听过，另一部分人也不是被大家接受的greatest thinkers，这样说来，是否是公认的greatest thinkers才算数呢？如果是这样，那等于说是被taken seriously的才是greatest thinkers，这样题目岂不是没有意义么？但如果不这样，每个人心目中都有不同的greatest thinkers，也许你认为叔本华是，我认为Einstein是，这样讨论这个题目同样没有意义。大家认为这个题目该怎么理解呢？
另外，我对什么叫take seriously也把握不好，是了解他们的观点，或就是尊重他们，还是其他？
希望大家多多指教啊。

木耳UID: 123036

我个人对greatest thinkers的理解倾向于哲学家或者是人文学者，像Nietzche，Kant这样的。

这个题目所要说的意思我觉得简单讲就是曲高和寡或者高处不胜寒，这是轻的；严重的就是偏见甚至迫害。

我觉得好像不存在你所说的没有意义的问题。关键不在于这个greatest thinker是否每个人都听说过（如果每个人都听说并了解他们，那这个题目说阐述的观点也就完全错误了。正是因为题目中所说的原因，才有很多的本来很伟大的thinkers不被人所知。）

关键在于不要把greatest thinkers理解为固定的几个人，而是要把它看成一个特定的群体，同时讨论大众和社会对这个特定群体的态度及造成这种态度的原因。

一句话，greatest thinkers只是一个宏观的概念

小丑鱼UID: 157722

猴哥上的提纲如此写到：
Position: Great thinkers are often wronged or ignored in many societies.
A. Confucius is regarded as a great thinker in China, but today few people including scholars pay much attention to what he actually said.
B. John Dewey was one of the greatest thinkers in American history, but few Americans including scholars know much about him.
C. In ancient Greece, the great thinker Socrates was sentenced to death.
我看了以后才提出这个疑问的，本来我的提纲也是赞同题目的观点，然后分析了原因：
我原来的提纲如下：
1. From Sacrates to Arthur Schopenhauer, from Monet to Vincent van Gogh, most of the philosophers and artists who are engaged in the sought for the most significant and fundamental things of mankind, so called the greatest thinkers, can not escape the destiny of being neglected, not understood, or even disparaged. It seems that ever since the Jesus has been executed by crucifixion, the society is always against the greatest thinkers of its time.
2. Greatest thinkers often go ahead of the time they live in so they cannot be understood by their contemporaries.
3. The general nature of greatest thinkers is that instead of conforming the tradition and ideas hold by most people, they often find defects in them and even try to subvert them. This caused the hatred and fear of the long-standing state of the society, deputied by governments.
4. Greatest thinkers often go to a phisiological and mental extreme when they feel their thoughts cannot be even understood, not to say accepted, by the masses and are suppressed by the government, which in turn makes them more incompatible with the society.
5. Even though we often consider ourselves of admiring greatest thinkers, it's not easy to recognize them.
6. What makes greatest thinkers great also makes their tlives tragic.
这样写不知道可不可以啊，我都有点想晕了

小丑鱼UID: 157722

谁来说一下啊