issue207同主题，希望大家多拍砖(U组G友，8月16战作文)今天下午改后第二篇附上

GladysryUID: 198609

果真是没人要滴……:L


恩，刚刚又看了一下鬼鬼的分析，觉得的确不象自己先开始对那个点拨的看法了，的确是很有道理的。决定争取明天把这篇文章改一遍再发一次，大家有兴趣的话可以对比着看一下（当然还是眼巴巴滴希望大家能够提些意见出来）:)

namevainUID: 208813

hehe 先说明一下，我和mm也都是武汉8月16日作文，让我们也来加入U组吧！
水平有限，不过希望能够尽一点微薄之力罢了
The speaker asserts that since rituals and ceremonies help define a culture, when they come into fading away, (没见过这个短语阿) societies or groups of people would have diminished senses of who they are. Although I quite agree with the speaker's premiss, owing to it could never be the sole influential factor, the conclusion may be kind of exaggerated.(exaggeration，名词阿)
Rituals and ceremonies help define a culture mainly because they reflect or sometimes positively express the characteristics of the culture, thus making other societies or people aware(这个词似乎不合适) of the culture's existence and spiritual outlook and finally accept it. The "Water-pouring festival", for example, significantly reflects people's awe for their God of Dai and the wish to (a) healthy and lucky life. Similarly the American Indians' special ceremonies strongly express their religious belief and the treasured recognition towards their nation's existence. Through all these rituals and ceremonies we can understand some unique culture better, recognize their outlook on life and the world, respect their spiritual essence and communicate with people more smoothly.
这一段你的论点，应该是说的典礼和仪式之所以能帮助定义一个文化，是因为他们反映了文化的特性，使得别的社会中的人可以了解。然而从泼水节和美国印第安人的仪式(什么仪式？没有说明，怎么表现的对生活的热爱和对神的敬仰？一个牛人跟我说过美国人的逻辑很stupid得，你不说清楚他就认为你不明白。)你的例子和最后部分的说明(更像一种描述)并没有明显的支持论点，我认为应该更直接一些。
Furthermore, the non-existence of specific national rituals and ceremonies sometimes do reveal a relatively feeble and vague cultule quality. The most conspicuous examples appear in so-called "migrational countries"(移民国家?), say, America, Canada and Austrilia which rarely give people from other countries a sense of speciality or distinct, in spite that they include many specific subcultures. One can easily and confidently assert people who enjoy the Lantern Festival are probabaly Chinese, while he could never be sure a man who is enjoying the Halloween is an American. Here we exclude the ceremonial "National Day" since every country has its own special day on it.
如果你认为移民国家的人文化空虚体现在他们对节日庆典的特殊性的缺失上，恐怕美国的阅卷者是不会同意的，因为他们自己认为已经形成了独特的美国文化(包括咖啡！)。如果你看过一个英国小说家写的短篇(你怎能"非美"?)相信你的感触是会更深的。个人认为这一段的论证还是比较紧凑得，不过与其说他们文化削弱，恐怕不如正面列举他们的独特性好。个人意见，issue的观点原则上还是不重要的，主要考察论证是否到位。
Then should we state that  without these cultural quality thing,  groups of people or societies would find the recognition of themselves ambiguous （why? how? at what?）and even disappear? Absolutely not. Because they are not the only two factors (describe them)which can influent cultures and could not have significant effects in all cultures. For example, the Buddists distinguish from others mainly on their eating, The Muslim women tell themselves apart from others on clothing, the Asians can be easily recognized just from their appearance. (例子举的好丰富，赞 )If we define the recognizable sense of a society or a group of people more broadly, we can easily find that the specific behavior, apparels, language even some inheretent factors can also give us the sense, even in a much more clear and frequent way.
这一段到了最后应该详细把这一段的idea support以下的好吧
Maybe the speaker just want to express his/her care on human's cultural quality, but since their functions are not properly evaluated, the conclusion can not be so persuasive.
一家之言...说错勿怪

GladysryUID: 198609

谢谢！

第一段的论证我的确没看出问题来，是很模糊。下去找找资料力争说得更明白。

第三段的起始句是一个反问，是题目中的观点，我列出来进行反驳。two factors 就是指题中提到的riruals and ceremonies.

fade away是消失离去的意思。

居然有语法错误，汗~，看来要多加注意。

hehe,再次表示感谢哦！我准备得很晚，水平不高，但是你们要是有文章愿意让我改的话，恩，偶一定会尽力滴！

把作文改了大小和颜色，尽量减少大家滴眼部疲劳。:)

[ Last edited by Gladysry on 2005-7-22 at 22:09 ]

crystal0622UID: 2116791

用我mm的id回复一下，表见怪，她忘了密码了，我刚试出来
1.我是come into没看懂...
2.其实其他的部分，我也只是建议，因为毕竟同样是刚刚准备，千万不要说错了误导你才好...多多交流~~~
3.一起努力巴！加油加油,你得文彩可比我好的多多了！

GladysryUID: 198609

恩！其实互改中出现的思路不同是很正常的，说出来了，觉得有道理就马上改正，觉得想不通的话也不存在误导阿！:L这样会让我觉得很惶恐滴……（还有阿，namevain你好谦虚哎，我刚刚看到你的一篇文文，就觉得你好牛，再看到版主地一句评论，觉得赫赫，遇到你这个互改的战友真是好呢。）;P


多多交流，多多互改就是硬道理！赫赫:cool:

谢谢你哦。+U+U

GladysryUID: 198609

今天中午把这篇文章又改了一遍，加了一些东西。我自认为也许更加全面，也不知道到底怎么样。希望大家可以提提意见。谢谢！


The speaker asserts that since rituals and ceremonies help define a culture, certain societies and groups of people would have a diminished sense of who they are when rituals and ceremonies fade away. I quite agree with the speaker's premiss, however, since they are not the only two influential factors, the conclusion may be kind of exaggerated.

Rituals and ceremonies help define a culture mainly because they reflect a culture's characteristics and sometimes positively express the spiritual essence rooted in the culture, moreover, it helps reminding societies or groups of people from other cultures of its existence and finally accept it. Taking the native American Indians' culture for example, every April they would assemble together, dressing up with the nation's special apperals and performing all kinds of dances to express their prayment to their God. This ceremony now not only functions as expressions from themselves but also aims at retaining their culture permanently and transmitting their beliefs to the world. In fact, although they sufferred a lot from colonists and even experienced the nation's extinction at a time, they keep these rituals and ceremonies from generation to generation and finally display them to the world and get the world's recogniton.

Furthermore, with rapid development of the world and technology, communication among different places and societies becomes so easy that it do make some conspicuous features such as rituals and ceremonies of certain cultures less noticeable than before thus lead more and more cultures to the question that "how should we localize our culture" which is really a reaction of diminished sense of themselves. And in some developed countries where migrators consists the main population,say, America, Canada, Austrilia and so on, the non-existence of specific rituals and ceremonies for nationwide do reveal a relatively feeble culture quality. Just as we can confidently point out that a man who enjoy the Lantern Festival is probably Chinese while we can never be sure that a child who is enjoying the Halloween is American. Here we exclude the "National Day" of each country since all countries have their own special days on it.

Then should we assert that without rituals and ceremonies, societies and groups of people will gradually lose their cultural quality and have a diminished sense of  who they are? Absolutely not. One can easily find that the two factors mentioned are not the only factors that can help define a culture and their influence cannot be significant for all cultures. Actually speaking, specific behavior, apparels, language even some inherent factors can also give us the sense, even in a much more clear and frequent way. For example, the Buddists distinguish from others mainly on their eating, and Muslim women easily tell themselves apart from others on clothing. What's more, even if a culture brings in elements from other cultures and mix them together, it can also mix them in a particular way that the final result is also fulfilled with its own cultural characteritics. Taking the most influential and famous ballet of China------Red Detachment of Women for example, it used the Brazailian folk music for reference and the whole music was performed by symphony orchestra derived from Europe, but the whole world can recognize it "great art of Chinese charateristic". So it is undoubted that even if rituals and ceremonies do disappear, societies or groups of people would not lose the recognition of their own culture.

Maybe the recognition and preservation of culture concerns the speaker deeply, but he/she underestimates the strong vatility of cultural essence and overestimates some superficial derivations of the culture, such as rituals and ceremonies, and finally gets a relatively wrong conclusion.

clearbabyUID: 2114410

我也想加U组可以么，8.17 济南

GladysryUID: 198609

汗~ 偶无权决定啊。我已经找不到U组的同胞了， 楼上帮我改文的是一个非U组的好人：）

我新找了两个战友，zehua, hustzwj,你要不要问问他们？恩，还有namevain.(我认为一个组里5个人左右比较好，大家互改压力相对小，流通又相对及时，我先表示支持）

dr_greenUID: 193584

Issue207 ：
Rituals and ceremonies help define a culture. Without them, societies or groups of people have a diminished sense of who they are.

The speaker asserts that since rituals and ceremonies help define a culture, certain societies and groups of people would have a diminished sense of who they are when rituals and ceremonies fade away. I quite agree with the speaker's premiss [premise], however, since they are not the only two influential factors, the conclusion may be kind of exaggerated.
[精华区里好像有篇文章讨论过  说开头复述题目不是很有必要 建议你把自己的观点写出来 不仅仅是表明立场]

Rituals and ceremonies help define a culture mainly because they reflect a culture's characteristics and sometimes positively express the spiritual essence rooted in the culture, [. Moreover] moreover, it helps reminding societies or groups of people from other cultures of its existence and finally accept it [这里的accept it 的主语是it？这句话写得有点乱了]. Taking the native American Indians' culture for example, every April they would assemble together, dressing up with the nation's [这里用nation好吗 Indian应该不算一个国家吧] special apperals [apparels] and performing all kinds of dances to express their prayment [prayer?] to their God. This ceremony now not only functions as expressions from themselves but also aims at retaining their culture permanently and transmitting their beliefs to the world. In fact, although they sufferred [suffered] a lot from colonists and even experienced the nation's extinction at a time, they keep these rituals and ceremonies from generation to generation [,] and finally display them to the world and get the world's recogniton [recognition].

Furthermore, with rapid development of the world and technology, communication among different places and societies becomes so easy that it do [does] make some conspicuous features such as rituals and ceremonies of certain cultures less noticeable than before [. Thus it leads/ , and thus] thus lead more and more cultures [culture question how to localize culture?] to the question that "how should we localize our culture" which is really a reaction of diminished sense of themselves. [这句话好长～～～ 建议分成几句来写 放在一起的话有点晕了 主要是找不到句子的重心 而且这一句话里说了两层意思了] And in some developed countries where migrators [migrants] consists the main population, say, America, Canada, Austrilia [Australia] and so on, the non-existence of specific rituals and ceremonies for nationwide [这个是形容词？] do reveal a relatively feeble culture quality. Just as we can confidently point out that a man who enjoy the Lantern Festival is probably Chinese while we can never be sure that a child who is enjoying the Halloween is American. Here we exclude the "National Day" of each country since all countries have their own special days on it.
[这一段是在证明当今世界的发展使得一些文明逐渐消逝吗？觉得 首先，用“less noticeable than before”应该意味着这些culture曾经是受外人瞩目的 但是很多culture特别是原著民文化本来就是不为人所知的 用noticeable 和 than before我觉得就不是很合适；第二，从你的论据来看是在证明一些文明比另一些文明被更多的人所接受 但是你的第一句话的最终落脚点是“a diminished sense of themselves”，我觉得这两者间的关系是比较间接的 中国人过美国的节日并不等于他们就不过自己的节日了 也不能推出他们的民族文化认同感降低了；第三就是 那个。。。最后一句话是证明什么的呀；其实我觉得移民国家作为例证本身是没有问题的 就是在分析方面缺一点说服力]

Then should we assert that without rituals and ceremonies, societies and groups of people will gradually lose their cultural quality and have a diminished sense of who they are? Absolutely not. One can easily find that the two factors mentioned are not the only factors that can help define a culture [,] and their influence cannot be significant for all cultures. Actually speaking, specific behavior, apparels, language even some inherent factors can also give us the sense, even in a much more clear [clearer?] and frequent way[ a much more efficient way? 这个用词我也不太有把握 不过clear and frequent总觉怪怪的。。]. For example, the Buddists [Buddhists] distinguish from others mainly on their eating [diet/ food], and Muslim women easily tell themselves apart from others on clothing. [这段的证明我觉得满妙的说！！简洁又有说服力] What's more, even if a culture brings in elements from other cultures and mix them together, it can also mix them in a particular way that the final result is also fulfilled with its own cultural characteristics. Taking the most influential and famous ballet of China------Red Detachment of Women for example, it used the Brazailian [Brazilian] folk music for reference and the whole music [piece of music] was performed by symphony orchestra derived from Europe, but the whole world can recognize it "great art of Chinese charateristic [characteristics]". So it is undoubted that even if rituals and ceremonies do disappear, societies or groups of people would not lose the recognition of their own culture.
[红色娘子军的例子我觉得最有说服力的地方在于芭蕾舞本身最初是欧洲宫廷舞蹈 这是它最重要的文化特征，将它与中国的故事相结合，产生中国文化特征的舞剧；而它的配乐是什么美国人并不一定知道 体会也就不会很深刻,拿它来作例子的说服力又会小一些。]
[不过 这后半段证明我不是很理解 你是在说即使发生不同文化的融和 也不一定会丧失本土文化的特点吗？这一点我总觉得和主题的关系不是非常密切]

Maybe the recognition and preservation of culture concerns the speaker deeply, but he/she underestimates the strong vatility [vitality?] of cultural essence and overestimates some superficial derivations of the culture [这个。。。把ritual and ceremonies说成superficial呀。。。你的body1里面不是说它们reflect a culture's characteristics and sometimes positively express the spiritual essence rooted in the culture的么], such as rituals and ceremonies, and finally gets a relatively wrong conclusion.

[整体读下来觉得不是很明白 可能是因为句子太长了 特别是ts。我觉得一些句子其实是两句或者三句话的内容 之间的逻辑关系也不是很密切 特别是那些你用and连接的句子 其实如果分成几句来写 可能效果会好一些。]
[第二是段落的分配 其实这样分三段是比较符合你整体思路的展开 但是body1和body3都包含了好几个内容 放在一起吧段落就变的很长 重点的观点就埋没在一大段话里面 不是很清晰了 看下来也就更糊涂了。。。]
[不过你的例子都举得很新颖的！！而且比较具体 我要好好学习下 如果是我 大概只能写出什么米国的外国移民叉叉 英国的外国移民也叉叉之类的例子。。]

GladysryUID: 198609

恩，其实精华区的那个开头我也看过（貌似是针对argument?），但是一时间找不出什么可用的开头，正在试验中。

我把自己的思路大概说一下：
1， 传统仪式有助于一个文化的定位，从而让其他的文化认知并接受他；
2，由于社会的发展，特征仪式的失去的确会让社会或某个群体产生文化迷失的感觉，也一定程度的削弱了这种文化的特色。
3，但是并不是只有传统仪式才是让一个社会或群体认知自己的关键因素，然后举例。

第二段的确有很多问题，句子也很拗口，以后要多加注意。( 赫赫，辛苦你了，读那些句子大约是很痛苦的~）

第三段我是这样想的：科技和社会的发展，让各民族间的融合增加，所以会使得他们以前的文化显得没有以前那么有特色（这里的确应该换一个词，characteristic看可以么？）而且也产生了各个民族对自己文化定位的疑问（那个句子果真是混乱，看来语言表达不是一般的差），这种疑问本身就反映了一个社会对自己文化的迷失感。而且在很多移民国家，由于各种文化的融合，使得整个国家基本上失去了可以显示自己特色的活动（虽然他们之中含有的各种亚文化还都比较有特色）。然后后面那个例子就是为了表明融合较少的，由自己传统的全国性的节日的中国容易被认出，而缺少这种特色的美国人就很难用某一个文化元素来指定了。

后面一段红色娘子军的那个例子是在电视上看到的，当时并没有觉得可以利用，但是看了鬼鬼的分析后，觉得用来反驳还是可以的。上一段提出了文化融合对文化迷失的影响，就是为了这一段来反驳。作为一个经典的芭蕾舞剧，音乐和舞蹈都是灵魂，中国的传统乐器是绝对没有交响乐团的说法的，那是引进，芭蕾更不是我们的民族产品，但是即使最重要的两个因素都是舶来品，都是文化融合，也并没有削弱它自身的中国特色，那么，代表融合并不一定会迷失。再加上很多其他的因素来定位一个文化的特征，并且更能深入生活，就表明其实一些传统和仪式即使被改变，消失，社会及群体未必就会逐渐丧失对自己的定位。

恩，最后一段我是这样想的，礼仪，仪式，那些都是反映文化特质的东西，但不是决定性的因素。所以我认为他们是一个文化的表层。

其实，在写这个提纲的过程中，觉得还不错（个人感觉，不知道大家有何意见），但是语言的确很糟糕，所以表达不出来，或者词不达意，前后混乱。还有，我以后一定会仔细检查，把文法错误都改正了再贴上来。

谢谢！