我对issue130的一些看法~~

liyao0509UID: 2825597

issue130:
"How children are socialized today determines the destiny of society. Unfortunately, we have not yet learned how to raise children who can help bring about a better society."

题目包括两个部分：1.孩子的社会化决定社会的未来 2.我们还没有找到培养孩子们的好方法。

关于第一点，很多都写成这样：孩子的社会化确实很重要，但它不是决定社会未来的充分条件，决定社会命运的有其他因素，比如创新、坚持、责任感，ect.
到这里，我就比较疑惑，如果你要证明苹果不好吃，你说去说橘子香蕉好吃能证明苹果不好吃么？微软百科上对socialization的解释是：conformity，adaption，persuasive，altruism，也就是说社会化是让人如何更好更和谐的融入社会。于是，与之相对应的是skepticism，creativity，competence，personality。到这里，差不多可以写成一篇竞争、质疑、服从、协作的文章了。在我看来socialization是让社会和平、正常的运作，它并不能促进社会的进步，当然除了常规的知识积累以外。促进社会进步的因素是竞争、质疑，这个大家应该写过很多次了。所以真正决定社会未来的不是社会化，而是与之相对的那些品质。

关于第二点，至今不理解ETS为什么会说我们还没有找到培养孩子们的好方法。对于人类培养孩子的方法好不好，这得有个对比呀，起码得有个判断的标准或者参照物，郁闷了，难道去找alien。。横向对比不行，就跟历史纵向对比一下。就说在教育孩子和社会化的问题上，我们的理解要比我们的祖先先进的多，我们培养的孩子也比他们好，而且我们是在向着我们认为好的方向努力，这能说明我们的教育是成功的吧？而且我们还认识到我们的不足，于是就有了提升和进步的空间，我们能做得更好。

拙见，跟大家讨论一下~

darxideUID: 2503898

我觉得即使把那些都算上，也很难说决定了社会命运。比如，即使人做的再好，一不小心老外把原子弹扔过来了，结果炸弹决定了命运:dizzy:当然这个比较极端，但难以预见的因素实在太多了。
不一定非得树个ARGUMENT题目给老师狠批的机会吧……？

lingli_xiaoaiUID: 172506

到这里，我就比较疑惑，如果你要证明苹果不好吃，你说去说橘子香蕉好吃能证明苹果不好吃么？

your comparison is not equivalent with 孩子的社会化确实很重要，但它不是决定社会未来的充分条件.

what does determine means :  
to  settle  or  decide  (a  dispute,  question,  etc.)  by  an  authoritative  or  conclusive  decision.  
which means the statement is based on socialization on its own can make a decision concerning the fate of the society.

so if you change the statement to 苹果 is only fruit that tastes good. you can dispute the statement by proving orange is no less good than apple.


but you way of  interpreting the topic is actually good.
but you also arbitrarily translate  " destiny of society " to "促进社会的进步"
destiny of society doesn't have to be better than before, or don't even have to been better.

sinbad_28UID: 2147500

我想请大家看一看我的分析有没有道理。这也许是个比较另类的解释，虽然我能自圆其说，但不知道大家觉得怎么样。顺便说一下，我个人是比较不赞同北美范文那篇的逻辑的。

https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1120513-1-2.html

liyao0509UID: 2825597

以下是ROCKER版主的提纲
--------
130思路提示 (可能观点有重复)
“How children are socialized today determines the destiny of society. Unfortunately, we have not yet learned how to raise children who can bring about a better society.”
1).你有没有想过，为什么作者用被动语态(are socialized)呢？为什么不说how children socialize呢？how children are socialized跟后半命题有什么关系呢？还是作者故意把2个关系不很密切的命题放在一起？
2). 我们写的时候，到底应该把笔墨放在children上，还是放在we（即上一辈人）上呢？
下面是我的理解：
用随便哪个英英字典先查下socialize就能知道，前半个命题应该理解为“如何言传身教，潜移默化下一代决定了整个社会的发展方向”，而不是“孩子们如何交往决定未来”！因为只有这样理解才能跟后半个命题紧密联系的起来，才能体现出整个题目是要你写“教育”的重要性。不知道这样的理解大家赞同不赞同。
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最后这个说的太好了，这样能够完全理解题目后半部分的用意，ETS是想让我们对自身做一下探讨。
是不是socialization的本质含义在翻译成“社会化”之后就丢失了呢？
有没有能人找个美国人问问socialization该从哪个角度理解？

liyao0509UID: 2825597

what does determine means :  
to  settle  or  decide  (a  dispute,  question,  etc.)  by  an  authoritative  or  conclusive  decision.  
which means the statement is based on socialization on its own can make a decision concerning the fate of the society.

so if you change the statement to 苹果 is only fruit that tastes good. you can dispute the statement by proving orange is no less good than apple.

lingli_xiaoai 发表于 2010-7-19 23:22

I doubt that “determine” means “deicide by its own”. Consider about “authoritative” and “conclusive”, the former one means “the most important”, the latter one means to put an end to debate. Neither of them shows “the only one”.

Like this:

“apple is the only fruit that tastes good” , “apple is the most tasty fruit”. Which is more appropriate as a topic? The first one is next to impossible for that everyone knows it is ridiculous.

To be a topic, it should make a chance to defend itself.

lingli_xiaoaiUID: 172506

I doubt that “determine” means “deicide by its own”. Consider about “authoritative” and “conclusive”, the former one means “the most important”, the latter one means to put an end to deb ...
liyao0509 发表于 2010-7-20 01:13

If you cannot decide one thing by yourself
how can you put an end to a debate?

the debate is still there..even for the most important part...if other factors is as important..then most important part is wrong.

although what I think is not important.... you can qualify the topic the way as you want to discuss it.

i agree with diban.....I have wrote this topic before....focused on whether we know how to educate our children and whether we have to know exactly what we going to teach them in order to make the society better...

the first part of the sentence is not as important as the latter statement to me...

清水风铃_nonoUID: 2809777

本人查了一下wikipedia，
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialization
关于socialization的解释，在我的理解，就是孩子学会怎么融入社会，甚至是被社会同化，继而学会怎么在社会中实施合适的，正确的行为的过程。简单说，就是长大，成熟的过程。也就是说，“社会化”的解释是没问题的。
至于人们不知道如何教孩子去建设一个更好的社会，我觉得专门教是教不出来的，就像“成功学”很难教出成功的学生一样。社会的熏陶自会让孩子明白世界是怎么回事，稍加正确地进行价值观的引导就好了。