给学精算的师兄弟姐妹们一些小小的建议+参考

afrogvalUID: 2877229

小弟我在美国读小本, 最近也因为申请春季的学校的事情忙的焦头烂额...翻看之前很多关于精算的帖子...
我本身读的是应数,但是系里面有精算这个专业,所以平时没事跟着他们精算专业的靠了三个考试(P,FM,MFE),同时给我们上金融数学的一个老师是美国第四大保险公司的VP,
那个老师本身是FCAS(CAS的credential), 我跟他聊过很多,同时我还跟几个保险公司里面的FSA(SOA的credential)了解的很多精算的东东,
总是在论坛上求别人帮助,在这我也把我的一些经验拿出来分享一下,抛砖引玉.
我把一些我觉得有价值的问题po出来, 主要都是以邮件的形式,相信大家的英文都应该不错..还有忽略我的英文吧.....
==========================================
1. 关于FRM与CFA的考试
我的问题:
Hi JohnI passed the EXAM P and EXAM FM in this year, both on the first attemp, so it is a pretty good new to me.
I am going to take C/4 in august and skip the M/3 because I do not feel that Actuary is really what I want to do.
Since I want to study Fin. Egr for my master degree, so I am planning on going to take the exam of FRM and CFA(both of Level 1)
But I am not really sure what is the difference between these two assoiciations.
So could you tell me more about these, and if possible, could you give me some advice on it?
thank you
他的回复:
Good to hear from you.  Congratulations on your success with the actuarial exams!

The FRM exams cover material similar to what we did in my class last year.  I have not done this exam myself, so I can’t tell you how it compares in difficulty with the actuarial or CFA exams.  The sponsoring organization is GARP (Global Association of Risk Professionals).  This is an organization for people in the risk management business.  This is not quite the same thing as financial engineering, but there is quite a bit in common.  I know several actuaries who belong to GARP because of the work they do in the risk management field.

The CFA exam is oriented towards people who are in the investment management business.  This is a much larger field in both the US and worldwide than the risk management profession.  If you are interested in working in this profession, the CFA exam is very well known and respected.  I assume it would make it easier to get a job if you have passed some or all of the CFA exams.

I did take those exams about 8 years ago, so I can tell you something about them.  Part I covers quite a wide range of material including some basic things about derivatives.  It also includes some of the topics you studied for exams P and FM.  The more technical topics come up in parts 2 and 3.  I think each of the CFA exams was a little harder than a single actuarial exam because it covered more topics (and the exam takes 6 hours!)  On the other hand, there are only 3 exams to pass while there are 8 or 9 to pass for the actuarial certifications.

You can download the exam guides from both organizations if you want to see exactly what is involved.

As for which one you should take, it really depends on what you want to do.  “Financial engineering” can be part of both risk management and investment management.  The people I know who do this kind of work either have a PhD in math or economics, or a CFA (or both).  But I don’t know a lot of people in the more technical risk management jobs (at large banks, for example).  So it may be that the FRM designation is more common there.

Hope this helps, and let me know what you decide to do.

John

John Zicarelli, PhD, CFA, FCAS
CAME, LLC(看看这一串头衔....我的目标啊....)
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问题2： 关于精算当前的工作环境
我的问题:
Hi John
Generally, what is job offering for actruaries right now? I am thinking about applying master for the spring and meanwhile try to find a job(if I could not get an offer from my dream school). What are those companies really focusing on? And how many tests they requires for the entrance job? I have a P and FM, going to take MFE and C, is this enough?
thx~
他的回答:
As for the other question, I think you would be well qualified for an actuarial job with the exams you have passed.  If you know what schools you want to go to, maybe you could find an insurance company in the same city to work for.  That way, you could get to know people at the school if you decide that is what you would rather do later.

I don't know what your immigration status is now.  I have heard that companies are less willing to hire people without a green card than they used to be.  It has become more difficult and expensive for companies to support this process.  So you need to be prepared to discuss this with potential employers.

Best of luck to you!

John
==================================
问题3：关于FSA跟FCAS的一些gerneral question

It took a few emails from Dr. Hassett(ACTEX FM/2 manual的主编人,hoho) to get to me, but I'd be happy to answer your questions based on my experience with the current FSA requirements.

See my responses below, but please realize that this always seems to be a fluid situation (the SOA hasn't really settled on anything for too long with respect to the new FSA requirements) so keep checking back on their website for new information no matter what...

1. Assume after I get my ASA credential, I need to take 2 exams and 4 modules (I believe). It is said the module is sort of a e-learning program. So do I need to take any exam to pass the course or I just go take it and I am good?

The FSA Modules do not have an exam component, but there is a "End of Module Project" associated with each.  At last check, I believe they say you are expected to spend roughly 100 hours on the module and 30 to 40 hours on the project.  Projects must be deemed to meet the minimum expectations to complete each module.

2. Since for the ASA, I do not need any experience to pass all the five exams. So do I need certain experience to pass the FSA required test?

There is currently no experience requirement in the FSA curriculum.

3. For the ASA exams, I felt that undergraduate Math was enough (I am majoring in Applied Math), is it also true for FSA exams? or do I need higher level math course to embolden me?

No matter which track you might pursue, higher level math is certainly not required.  There are a number of upper level math courses that might be helpful (Stochastic Calculus and Mathematical Statistics come to mind) above and beyond what you should be taking to satisfy the VEE requirements.  There are also several non-math courses that you might consider such as Intermediate Macroeconomics, Intermediate Microeconomics, an upper level Finance/Investments course (i.e., something that covers complex derivatives), but you can certainly make it through without any of these.

4. Since any track will give me the FSA credential, so if I go several tracks (like in both Finance and Investment), do I get two FSA credentials?

In this scenario, you would only get an FSA once.  You are welcome to pursue multiple tracks, but the only benefit you would receive is an ability to practice in more than one area.



=======================================
问题4：关于拿到FSA的最快多久的问题

Honestly, it varies for everybody.  They say that the average new FSA is 32 or 33, but I was done a few years ahead of that (it took me about 5.5 years which is relatively quick).  That being said, it probably helps a bit that the SOA is offering exams a little more frequently now.  It might also speed things up a little if you’re not planning on working while you take exams.  As an aside, I’m not sure what your plans are as far as work goes, but I would definitely recommend that you find an actuarial jobbefore you get your ASA – without some good experience to go with it, your credential looks pretty hanging on the wall but isn’t necessarily very useful.

I think that the best advice I can give you at this point is not to get too far ahead of yourself – there’s a pretty big step up in difficulty from C, FM and MFE to MLC and C.  There are plenty of very intelligent, talented people who need more than one attempt at MLC in particular.  I would also plan on at least 6 – 9 months to properly complete the FAP modules.  That would get you to ASA.  From ASA to FSA, it took me roughly 2.5 years and I honestly don’t think that you can do it a whole lot faster than that.  The exams are significantly bigger and more difficult (to put it in perspective, I probably put in 2x to 3x as many study hours for each of my fellowship exams as I did the PhD Qualifying Exams I took grad school), plus they’re typically only offered once a year.

As far as other questions, I’m happy to help out where I can as long as you can be patient where responses are concerned – it certainly wouldn’t be out of the question for it to take me a week or two to get back to you when things get busy.

Have a nice day.

Ron
=========================================
目前跟别人的交流大概就是这么多,让我在翻腾翻腾找找,之后会更新

下面说一些我自己的经验:
一般来说,精算考试在美国也算是很难得考试了,通过率前几个考试大概在50%左右吧.一般来说过了前两个考试基本上找工作是够用了
但是这里有个问题就是现在美国整体的经济,前几天看WSJ,上面还说double-dip recession, 而且虽然经济回暖,但是整体的失业率还是很高的.
简单的例子,我们系一个美国的精算研究生暑假申请intern,申请了12个,最后只被一个录取了,他本身也是非常厉害的.他之后告诉我说现在美国的保险公司
一般都是要full-time的,不喜欢intern一类的. 而且对于你是精算研究生毕业还是精算本科毕业根本不care, 他们看得就是你过了几个考试.我之前投了几个简历
被两个保险公司打电话说面试(年薪6.5w, w/ bonus), 他们说竞争挺激烈的现在.

但是,不要灰心!!
我之前跟All-state的kent州分部的老总通过电话(因为我把我的manual在网上贱价卖给了他儿子),他告诉我说,虽然现在经济形势不是很好,但是精算这个行业受到的打击
并不是特别的打,而且现在保险公司愿意招收一些刚刚毕业的学生,吸收一些新鲜的血液.所以说前途还是比较光明的

最后一点,如果读精算...最好去University of Connecticut. 这个学校占尽了天时地利

第一,这个学校有很好的精算program

第二,美国大部分major ins. company都在conn这个州....
第三,这学校离NY,Boston那是相当的进,

Btw 我申请了他们的Stats,hoho,希望能进

大致先说这么多,如果有后续我会贴上来的~


**********************************************************\
回复版大的问题

这两个说法貌似有点矛盾啊
一个fresh的过了两门考试的精算研究生和一个有过经验的本科生他们偏向哪个呢？
lostconch 发表于 2010-9-26 14:16

两个其实不矛盾,他们不喜欢intern因为财政的问题,并不是因为资格的问题, 想想啊, intern的话他们给钱帮你赚经验啊~,full-time你就是干活啊...

再补充一些:
他这个主要说的说,如果仅仅只是拿到了ASA这个credentia(要先考了ASA然后才能考FSA)l却没有相对的工作经验,那么这个credential仅仅是好看而已
他建议我在拿到credential之前先去工作,去适应一下看看到底要不要干这个.

嗯.对于版大的问题...以我的经验来看...本科+证书当然是最好了.
其实我觉得对于精算这个行业,经验才是王道,

之前我想考CFA的时候专门咨询过我们学校商院几个CFA,他们基本上都告诉我说,CFA并不是衡量一个人的主要东东,他们之前工作的地方,不论是mutal Fund还是hedge fund
很多非常有天赋跟才能的investor去考CFA都失败了.

而且我之前有想申请UCB的MFE,但是看他们平均年龄是27岁. 平均工作经验是7年,很多applicants CFA LV3，FRM LV2，所以....我觉得对于金融类的东东,
经验才是王道.

我还想说一点关于MFE
根据我之前的了解,其实MFE并不像国内传的那样高薪+优厚的待遇, 他们其实就是wall st的蓝领,工作非常繁重,压力非常大
而且就像之前其他帖子里面讲的那样,MFE学成时候回国的用处其实并不大,因为MFE主要是跟金融衍生品打交道,但是现在国内
金融衍生品市场非常狭窄. 但是不知道今后10年会怎样, 之前看报道说中国的GDP的稳定增长应该还能持续10年(虽然我不太相信),希望之后金融市场能更加开放吧.
其实对于那些想要到wall st工作的同学来说....牛逼的还是Trader...(之前看WSJ, 美国历史上最牛逼的一个trader, 08 金融危机的时候单手一笔交易帮助JP Morgan(貌似是这个)丢了90bil,但是这位
史上最牛逼的倒霉蛋现在还在NY的一家hedge fund里面当头头,快活着捏)

我老师建议我说,如果你想当trader,
PhD=> working 5 yrs or more => Top School's MBA => Trader=$$$$$$$$$$$ infinity income $$$$$$$$$$
哈哈~~~同学们加油吧!

lostconchUID: 2473832

赞！很好的精算专业和考试扫盲帖。版上以前关于精算的讨论太少了唉
LZ加油，多多分享信息，这帖子有成为精华的潜质~

lostconchUID: 2473832

As an aside, I’m not sure what your plans are as far as work goes, but I would definitely recommend that you find an actuarial jobbefore you get your ASA – without some good experience to go with it, your credential looks pretty hanging on the wall but isn’t necessarily very useful.

他之后告诉我说现在美国的保险公司一般都是要full-time的,不喜欢intern一类的. 而且对于你是精算研究生毕业还是精算本科毕业根本不care, 他们看得就是你过了几个考试.

这两个说法貌似有点矛盾啊
一个fresh的过了两门考试的精算研究生和一个有过经验的本科生他们偏向哪个呢？

walkUID: 196561

不错，谢谢分享

afrogvalUID: 2877229

3# lostconch
他这个主要说的说,如果仅仅只是拿到了ASA这个credentia(要先考了ASA然后才能考FSA)l却没有相对的工作经验,那么这个credential仅仅是好看而已
他建议我在拿到credential之前先去工作,去适应一下看看到底要不要干这个.

嗯.对于版大的问题...以我的经验来看...本科+证书当然是最好了.
其实我觉得对于精算这个行业,经验才是王道,

之前我想考CFA的时候专门咨询过我们学校商院几个CFA,他们基本上都告诉我说,CFA并不是衡量一个人的主要东东,他们之前工作的地方,不论是mutal Fund还是hedge fund
很多非常有天赋跟才能的investor去考CFA都失败了.

而且我之前有想申请UCB的MFE,但是看他们平均年龄是27岁. 平均工作经验是7年,很多applicants CFA LV3，FRM LV2，所以....我觉得对于金融类的东东,
经验才是王道.

我还想说一点关于MFE
根据我之前的了解,其实MFE并不像国内传的那样高薪+优厚的待遇, 他们其实就是wall st的蓝领,工作非常繁重,压力非常大
而且就像之前其他帖子里面讲的那样,MFE学成时候回国的用处其实并不大,因为MFE主要是跟金融衍生品打交道,但是现在国内
金融衍生品市场非常狭窄. 但是不知道今后10年会怎样, 之前看报道说中国的GDP的稳定增长应该还能持续10年(虽然我不太相信),希望之后金融市场能更加开放吧.
其实对于那些想要到wall st工作的同学来说....牛逼的还是Trader...(之前看WSJ, 美国历史上最牛逼的一个trader, 08 金融危机的时候单手一笔交易帮助JP Morgan(貌似是这个)丢了90bil,但是这位
史上最牛逼的倒霉蛋现在还在NY的一家hedge fund里面当头头,快活着捏)

我老师建议我说,如果你想当trader,
PhD=> working 5 yrs or more => Top School's MBA => Trader=$$$$$$$$$$$ infinity income $$$$$$$$$$
哈哈~~~同学们加油吧!

lostconchUID: 2473832

以我的经验来看...本科+证书当然是最好了.

That's also why I think Cornell's MPS might be good for you. You've taken courses on actuarial stuff and passed exams. So based on John's perspectives you may want to step into industry as soon as possible to grab some w.e., which is critical for your future advancement in actuarial area. Cornell's program, (although sounds weird...), is very career-oriented. And what's more, it's a short program of 1 year length. I figure job-hunting would be easier for you one year later with the assistance of Cornell's "brand" and career/networking resources the school can provide.

afrogvalUID: 2877229

6# lostconch
虽然这么说..但是我并不想在精算的行业里面干..而且..现在想读博士了...如果去读MPS,以后申请博士就不好申请了....

lostconchUID: 2473832

Pursuing a Ph.D. in math or other sciences seems a secured way of making way into financial sector, compared to taking a job directly after graduation from college. I've seen somewhere a post of the backgound of people admitted into NYU's fin math program several years ago. There're at least three people holding a Ph.D. in math, phys, or chem when they applied. And more people had completed one or more master's in some other areas. It gives me the impression that science people, especially Ph.D.s, are well prepared to transfer to finance, if they are eager to do so...

afrogvalUID: 2877229

8# lostconch
我现在自己的计划是如果能进一个还不错的Master,就好好学然后争取能进一个更好的PhD, 然后在这读书的几年把能考的都考了,厚积薄发.
其实最想去的还是纽约或者波士顿,将来进Fin industry会容易很多
但是就是不知道哥大好不好进..虽然网上说AD满天飞..但是我觉得我这成绩...不知道能不能被哥大录取..
而且学校老师写recommendation不是一般的慢..我三周前都说了,现在都还没动笔.....T_T

lostconchUID: 2473832

To get into the ORIE program at Columbia is way much harder than the statistics one. I think you can have a try. According to a student I know in the program, despite the big size of the class, the fancy location and reputation help a lot when looking for a job.

afrogvalUID: 2877229

10# lostconch
其实我个人是更加倾向于BU,
我选择CU的原因就是当一个跳板,因为毕竟美国混了4年了,tutor也当了三年,语言什么应该比国内刚来的有优势...去忽悠忽悠教授,套套关系..说不定将来能在CU继续读下去(先做一下梦,hoho),而且我毕业的时间太尴尬了,但是我又不想中间隔半年在入学.......
哎,,反正申请也都申请了,,等消息先吧..下周还要厚着脸皮去催老师...- -||

lostconchUID: 2473832

10# lostconch
其实我个人是更加倾向于BU,
我选择CU的原因就是当一个跳板,因为毕竟美国混了4年了,tutor也当了三年,语言什么应该比国内刚来的有优势...去忽悠忽悠教授,套套关系..说不定将来能在CU继续读下去(先做 ...
afrogval 发表于 2010-9-27 11:10

em... be bold and network with people. good luck on your references.