issue157

ilikeappleUID: 135385

决定现在开始专攻自己觉得难的issue，大家有什么看法尽管提出来，共同努力：）

There is no such thing as purely objective observation. All observation is subjective; it is always guided by the observer’s expectations or desires.

Nothing can be absolute objective, nor could be observation in that it is conducted by human beings whose expectations, desires or personalities may influence the direction of the observation and thus its result. However, that does not mean all observation is totally subjective; it involves objective that cannot be controlled by the individuals.

Admittedly, in scientific fields, it is always somewhat subjective assumption that comes first before any observation is made. For example, when Newton happened to notice the fallen apple, he assumed that it was the gravity of the Earth that made the fruit fall and then he made some researches and observations to try to testify his hypothesis, which was proved to be true in the end. When it comes to sociology, mass communication and alike, many great discoveries also begin with suppositions. After assuming that the mass took information and ideas more from some "opinion leaders", rather than the generally belief of directly from the mass media, some experts made observations on the process of communication of information to make sure whether the assumption was right or not. In a word, assumption, which is subjective as such, is mainly the basis of most observations.

However, the process of observation cannot be entirely controlled by the observers. Although for the experts on mass media who tried to prove their assumption that there were "opinion leaders" who played an important role in conveying ideas, they had to make their observation on factual data. Some people may argue that the observers might take somewhat biased survey by selecting the sample, the area and time to take the observation, conducting questionnaires aimed at their expected results, or even setting environment which helped to lead the observation to go in their desirable direction. But all these are against the principles of any scientific observation; they are not the rules that a forthright, truly professional observer should abide by. Even though they have conducted some of the unfair rules mentioned above, they still could do nothing to completely control the process because of the objectivity of some of the factual conditions such as tools and backgrounds of objectives involved and their response to established situation.

Nor could the observers guide the results of the observation, which is based on the complex objective elements beyond their reach. Take the scientific observations as examples. Although one could make observations and researches desirable to prove his assumption in science, he is not able to decide which the research would result in. If he would like to come to a theory capable of universal acceptance, he has to choose his tools and approaches carefully; otherwise, even if the result is within his expectation under his preset condition, it would not be widely applicable.

In sum, although during making observations, in social or scientific fields, they are always influenced by subjective factors such as desires and expectations of the observers, it does not follow that nothing objective is involved in the observations. In fact, in a scientific view, the conductors should choose the subjects, tools objectively and not interfere in its development, thus get objective results.

ilikeappleUID: 135385

顶一下，大家帮忙提点意见

ilikeappleUID: 135385

对了，有没有8月中的考友？时间好像不多了也，汗ing

feier521UID: 109747

Nothing can be absolute objective, nor could be observation in that it is conducted by human beings whose expectations, desires or personalities may influence the direction of the observation and thus its result. However, that does not mean all observation is totally subjective; it involves objective that cannot be controlled by the individuals(我觉得怎么和第一句话有点矛盾,it also involves some objective elements that cannot be controlled by the individuals).

Admittedly, in scientific fields, it is always somewhat subjective assumption that comes first before any observation is made. For example, when Newton happened to notice the fallen apple, he assumed that it was the gravity of the Earth that made the fruit fall and then he made some researches and observations (to try) to testify his hypothesis, which was proved to be true in the end. When it comes to sociology, mass communication and alike, many great discoveries also begin with suppositions. After assuming that the mass took information and ideas more from some "opinion leaders"(和主观猜想有关吗？), rather than the general(ly) belief (of) directly from the mass media（来自媒体就客观吗？这个地方不是很清楚。）, some experts made observations on the process of communication of information to make sure whether the assumption was right or not. In a word, assumption, which is subjective as such, is mainly the basis of most observations.

However, the process of observation cannot be entirely controlled by the observers. Although (for) the experts on mass media who tried to prove their assumption(s) that there were "opinion leaders" who played an important role in conveying ideas(有点冗赘), they had to（不得不？） make their observation on factual data. Some people may argue that the observers might take somewhat biased survey by selecting the sample, the area and time to take the observation, conducting questionnaires aimed(ing) at their expected results, or even setting environment which helped to lead the observation to go in their desirable direction. But all these are against the principles of any scientific observation; they are not the rules that a forthright, truly professional observer should abide by. Even though they have conducted some of the unfair rules mentioned above, they still could do nothing to completely control the process because of the objectivity of some of the factual conditions such as tools and backgrounds of objectives involved and their response to established situation（为什么说观察者不能控制观察过程？尽管他们使用的工具都是客观的，他们的反映response不正是说明观察是主观的吗？说理不是很充分，个人认为。呵呵）.

Nor could the observers guide the results of the observation, which is based on the complex objective elements beyond their reach. Take the scientific observations as examples. Although one could make observations and researches desirable to prove his assumption in science, he is not able to decide which the research would result in. If he would like to come to a theory capable of universal acceptance, he has to choose his tools and approaches carefully; otherwise, even if the result is within his expectation under his preset（动词吧） condition, it would not be widely applicable. （现如今，那些随意更改试验或观察结果的人不是很多吗？你如果说他们是为了他自己的假设或者大众接受，不就是加入了自己的主观意志了吗？）

In sum, although during making observations, in social or scientific fields, they are always influenced by subjective factors such as desires and expectations of the observers, it does not follow that nothing objective is involved in the observations. In fact, in a scientific view, the conductors should choose the subjects, tools objectively and not interfere in its development, thus get objective results.
我觉得你要是反驳作者，不要在观察过程、结果上反驳（为什么说它们就是客观的？），不如在all上反驳。有些观察者是客观的观察者（比如说伽利略用天文望远镜观察天空，达尔文到处观察动植物的习性，你的例子牛顿也不错），他们的观察都遵守客观规律。
然后说，不得不承认观察involve主观。（你的观点：观察来自于一开始的主观假设不错！）
而且，很多观察者强加自己主观意志于观察，任意改变观察过程和捏造结果。
最后说，观察者，科学家观察时应该具有遵守客观规律，得出科学的结果。

晕晕的，也不知道自己说的对不对？一起讨论！

zhamiaUID: 97673

想起ETS反对科学中立性

ilikeappleUID: 135385

Admittedly, in scientific fields, it is always somewhat subjective assumption that comes first before any observation is made. For example, when Newton happened to notice the fallen apple, he assumed that it was the gravity of the Earth that made the fruit fall and then he made some researches and observations (to try) to testify his hypothesis, which was proved to be true in the end. When it comes to sociology, mass communication and alike, many great discoveries also begin with suppositions. After assuming that the mass took information and ideas more from some "opinion leaders"(和主观猜想有关吗？), rather than the general(ly) belief (of) directly from the mass media（来自媒体就客观吗？这个地方不是很清楚。）, some experts made observations on the process of communication of information to make sure whether the assumption was right or not. In a word, assumption, which is subjective as such, is mainly the basis of most observations.
这段我是想借用大众传播学中“舆论领袖”假说，他们也是先有设想，然后通过观察试验来试图印证的。
你质疑的那句话意思是说，当时人们普遍认为大众直接从大众媒介那里获取信息，而不是更多的来自于所谓的“舆论领袖”，而后来研究者提出了这一假设，从而试图去论证它

However, the process of observation cannot be entirely controlled by the observers. Although (for) the experts on mass media who tried to prove their assumption(s) that there were "opinion leaders" who played an important role in conveying ideas(有点冗赘), they had to（不得不？） make their observation on factual data. Some people may argue that the observers might take somewhat biased survey by selecting the sample, the area and time to take the observation, conducting questionnaires aimed(ing) at their expected results, or even setting environment which helped to lead the observation to go in their desirable direction. But all these are against the principles of any scientific observation; they are not the rules that a forthright, truly professional observer should abide by. Even though they have conducted some of the unfair rules mentioned above, they still could do nothing to completely control the process because of the objectivity of some of the factual conditions such as tools and backgrounds of objectives involved and their response to established situation（为什么说观察者不能控制观察过程？尽管他们使用的工具都是客观的，他们的反映response不正是说明观察是主观的吗？说理不是很充分，个人认为。呵呵）.
“他们的反映response” 这里的“他们” 是指代前面的"objectives"，也就是被观察对象，我认为一旦选定了对象和既定工具，最后他们就无法控制对象作出的反应（不过，其实这个观点是有问题，连我自己都存着疑问，更别说说服别人了）

你说得很有道理，真的。我在写的时候就是觉得找不到很有说服力的论据，所以才贴出来希望大家给点建议。3x