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[经典批改讨论] issue165 改了很多遍的issue,希望得到指点 [复制链接]

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发表于 2003-9-5 23:33:37 |显示全部楼层

改了很多遍的issue,希望得到指点

165. In any given field, the leading voices come from people who are motivated not by conviction but by the desires to present opinions and ideas that differ from those held by the majority.
The leading voice: 理解为占主导的声音,不知道对不对
在任何一个领域,主流的声音总是出自那些想要标新立异的人们的口中,而不是那些推崇定论的人
Disagree:
1.        state personal opinion: disagree
2.        the conception of leading voice
3.        the common misunderstanding of distinguish voices and why they are not surely become leading voice
4.        the importance of leading voice and point out the reason some of them can replace the original ones
5.        sum: hold a healthy attitude toward distinguish voices
这篇文章我呕心沥血改了很多遍,希望能看懂,


Frankly I do not agree with the allegation that the leading voices come from people who are motivated by the desire to present their distinguish ideas. Such an allegation negates and misunderstands the original aim of those people who are devoted to exploring the truth without being dwarfed by the conviction. What they are engaging in seeking is the truth of the world, rather than a certain identity to be noticed by the majority. Neither do I agree that the leading voices only come form those distinguish opinions, rather that convictions.

First we should make it clear that what can be called leading voices. Leading voices in any given field represent the dominating ideas which have a considerable number of supporters in this field. The question whether an opinion is a leading one or not is determined by the nature of the opinion, rather than whether the opinion is conformed to the conviction or not. If the ideas speak out the truth or some convincible facts, they will naturally be called the leading voices. On the contrary, if they only express some thought, which are different from majority, even they seems novel at first, if they can not stand the scientific evaluation, they can only be called different voices, rather than leading voices. Sometimes, if the content of these different voices contradict the truth or undermines the social welfare and development, such voices can only fall into the category of heresy.

Some gifted psychologists have found out that people incline to behave differently so that they can call the attention of others. The desire to present opinions and ideas, which differ from those hold by the majority, is likely the result of such an inclination. Obviously, this simple motivation can not ensure these distinguish voices reflect the truth and should be respected as the leading voices. It is easy to claim a distinguish opinion toward the conviction which has been existed for a long time. But it is difficult to convince the majority of its correctness. Only when the distinguish idea win the support of a considerable group of disciples, the voice can be called the leading voice in this field.

Here, I do not mean to debase the importance of distinguish voices. Actually, we should realize that the development of the civilization is accompanied with the breakthrough of contemporary convictions. However it does not follow that any distinguish opinion will have some advantages over the existing conviction. Only when the new theory has more persuasion than the old conviction, the new one can replace the old and become the leading voice. Copernicus is a famous astronomer. His theory, the earth and other planets revolve around the sun, altered totally the astronomy system. But it is not because the theory contradicted to the contemporary system of astronomy so that Copernicus gained his repute. It is in that Copernicus’s theory sounds more convincible compared with the old one. Just because of those adventurous explorers like Copernicus who were not satisfied with the existing knowledge system and bravely brought out their original ideas, society could advance to today’s degree. So the spirit and the courage to suspect present conviction should be encouraged by society. It provides the impetus for the progress and propels the advancement of wheels of times.

The crucial point is that to be different from the majority should not be our ultimate goal during the process of poring over the truth. Searching after the truth and uncovering then mysterious mask are more important than the individual achievement. Neither leading voices surely come from those convictions, nor do they surely come from distinguishing voices that can call mass attention. Only those theories, drown form empirical experience, can survive form the carping of the mass and become leading voices in various fields.

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发表于 2003-9-6 00:13:07 |显示全部楼层
是不是又是看不懂啊,

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发表于 2003-9-6 10:09:25 |显示全部楼层
1,Such an allegation negates and misunderstands the original aim of those people who are devoted to exploring the truth without being dwarfed by the conviction. ---》后半部分without being dwarfed by the conviction是什么意思?the conviction是特指,前文并没有提到,指什么?
2,Neither do I agree that the leading voices only come form those distinguish opinions, rather that convictions.--》rather than convitions吧?这句话感觉写成肯定句更清晰哦?

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发表于 2003-9-6 10:33:18 |显示全部楼层
Frankly I do not agree with the allegation that the leading voices come from people who are motivated by the desire to present their distinguish ideas. Such an allegation negates and misunderstands the original aim of those people who are devoted to exploring the truth without being dwarfed by the conviction.(这一句我不是太明白,,,你想说conviction重要还是不重要啊?) What they are engaging(engaged) in seeking is the truth of the world, rather than a certain identity to be noticed by the majority. Neither do I agree that the leading voices only come form those distinguish opinions, rather that convictions.

First we should make it clear that what can be called leading voices. Leading voices in any given field represent the dominating ideas which have a considerable number of supporters in this field. The question whether an opinion is a leading one or not is determined by the nature of the opinion, rather than whether the opinion is conformed to the conviction or not. If the ideas speak out the truth or some convincible facts, they will naturally be called the leading voices. On the contrary, if they only express some thought, which are different from majority, even they seems(seem) novel at first, if they can not stand the scientific evaluation, they can only be called different voices, rather than leading voices. Sometimes, if the content of these different voices contradict the truth or undermines the social welfare and development, such voices can only fall into the category of heresy.(真的是这样 嘛?很多正确的东西在问世很长时间里都是被认做异端邪说的啊)

Some gifted psychologists have found out that people incline to behave differently so that they can call the attention of others. The desire to present opinions and ideas, which differ from those hold(held) by the majority, is likely the result of such an inclination. Obviously, this simple motivation can not ensure these distinguish voices reflect the truth and should be respected as the leading voices. It is easy to claim a distinguish opinion toward the conviction which has been existed for a long time. But it is difficult to convince the majority of its correctness. Only when the distinguish idea win the support of a considerable group of disciples, the voice can be called the leading voice in this field.

Here, I do not mean to debase the importance of distinguish voices. Actually, we should realize that the development of the civilization is accompanied with the breakthrough of contemporary convictions. However it does not follow that any distinguish opinion will have some advantages over the existing conviction. Only when the new theory has more persuasion than the old conviction, the new one can replace the old and become the leading voice. Copernicus is a famous astronomer. His theory, the earth and other planets revolve around the sun, altered totally the astronomy system. But it is not because the theory contradicted to the contemporary system of astronomy so that Copernicus gained his repute. It is in that Copernicus’s theory sounds more convincible compared with the old one. Just because of those adventurous explorers like Copernicus who were not satisfied with the existing knowledge system and bravely brought out their original ideas, society could advance to today’s degree. So the spirit and the courage to suspect present conviction should be encouraged by society. It provides the impetus for the progress and propels the advancement of wheels of times.

The crucial point is that to be different from the majority should not be our ultimate goal during the process of poring over the truth. Searching after the truth and uncovering then mysterious mask are more important than the individual achievement. Neither leading voices surely come from those convictions, nor do they surely come from distinguishing voices that can call mass attention. Only those theories, drown form empirical experience, can survive form the carping of the mass and become leading voices in various fields

我知道为什么我看你的文章总觉得跟我以前的思路不对劲的地方了,我们对conviction的理解不一样。你的翻译里说是定论,可是我理解的是信念。而且我看孙远提纲,他好像也倾向于信念这一说~。具体怎么样那,,,希望更多的朋友跟贴讨论一下

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发表于 2003-9-6 10:38:29 |显示全部楼层
呵呵,没想到和dreamflyer同时修改同一篇文章噢!

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发表于 2003-9-6 10:48:25 |显示全部楼层
我查了conviction的解释
1 : the act or process of convicting of a crime especially in a court of law

2 a : the act of convincing a person of error or of compelling the admission of a truth  b : the state of being convinced of error or compelled to admit the truth

3 a : a strong persuasion or belief  b : the state of being convinced
synonyms see CERTAINTY, OPINION

这是w-m的解释


深信,确信。定罪,宣告有罪

这是金山里的解释

我想我们的都有道理吧,我的偏重于3的第二条,你的偏重于3的第一条?

我是这样理解,既然是想和大家不同的,既然是different from majority,

那么对应的就是已经公认的定论了?

Such an allegation negates and misunderstands the original aim of those people who are devoted to exploring the truth without being dwarfed by the conviction.(这一句我不是太明白,,,你想说conviction重要还是不重要啊?)

也不是,我想要表达的不是convinction是否重要,我是想表明,那些表达自己异议的人并没有被convinction而下倒。

Sometimes, if the content of these different voices contradict the truth or undermines the social welfare and development, such voices can only fall into the category of heresy.(真的是这样 嘛?很多正确的东西在问世很长时间里都是被认做异端邪说的啊)
你没有注意到我用的是sometimes.呵呵

谢谢,不过我还是想问,我写的你的看懂了吗?我特别担心我的文章回来别人看不懂,因为毕竟不是用中国话,

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发表于 2003-9-6 10:51:05 |显示全部楼层
最初由 blake_wang 发布
[B]呵呵,没想到和dreamflyer同时修改同一篇文章噢! [/B]


谢谢啊

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发表于 2003-9-6 12:16:34 |显示全部楼层
我想我应该算是看懂了吧~~~
你怎么这样担心呢?写作文要是别人看不懂还了得……

blake,我们都被huiguniang的宣传词吸引过来了嘛:)看来以后我贴作文也要这么写,嘻嘻

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发表于 2003-9-6 12:16:37 |显示全部楼层
我想我应该算是看懂了吧~~~
你怎么这样担心呢?写作文要是别人看不懂还了得……

blake,我们都被huiguniang的宣传词吸引过来了嘛:)看来以后我贴作文也要这么写,嘻嘻

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发表于 2003-9-6 12:23:17 |显示全部楼层
我觉得

文章一定要让别人看懂自己说得是什么,

不然的话,ets一生气,直接就给我打成2分了

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发表于 2003-9-6 12:24:18 |显示全部楼层
最初由 dreamflyer 发布
[B]我想我应该算是看懂了吧~~~
你怎么这样担心呢?写作文要是别人看不懂还了得……

blake,我们都被huiguniang的宣传词吸引过来了嘛:)看来以后我贴作文也要这么写,?.

以下省略...... [/B]


我9号考你呢?

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发表于 2003-9-6 20:42:27 |显示全部楼层
to huiguniang,

嗨!晕倒!

"也不是,我想要表达的不是convinction是否重要,我是想表明,那些表达自己异议的人并没有被convinction而下倒。" 我感觉你把题意理解错啦!conviction是与众不同的人的内心的conviction!你怎么能够理解成普遍接受的信念呢?全反了!

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发表于 2003-9-7 08:59:35 |显示全部楼层
真的吗?
如果是那样的话?
那题目是不是这样理解:
在任何一个领域中,leading voice从这样的人里说出;这样的人是被那种desire所驱动的,而不是被心中的convinction所驱动的,desire是表达异议desire, conviction是对观点的conviction.

也有道理,

课时我觉得这样也可一

在一个领域中,leadingvoice 是从这些人口中说出来,这些人被desire所驱动,而不是从那些人的口中说出来,那些人对conviction深信不疑。

说实话,我觉得着两种理解都无可后非,可能看你主要从那个角度来写了,不过对于两种立场,可能都要disagree了

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发表于 2003-9-7 09:32:51 |显示全部楼层
我看了网上有人对这篇issue的翻译如下, 我觉得有道理,大家认为吗?

在任何领域,领导作用总是来自于这些人,他们并不为传统的观念所动,而是极力渴望表达那些和主流思想不同的观点和想法。

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发表于 2003-9-7 10:28:28 |显示全部楼层
我也倾向与这种观点,但是conviction 还是不完全等同于convention的好,

传统和定论还是有区别的,

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RE: issue165 改了很多遍的issue,希望得到指点 [修改]

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issue165 改了很多遍的issue,希望得到指点
https://bbs.gter.net/thread-136415-1-1.html
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