issue127 thank!!

fortitudesagUID: 139374

refer to this edition. --- iq28

This statement above put a puzzling question in front of us: Could facts be changed by observers? Some people might sincerely believe that facts are stubborn things, which would not altered by our wishes, inclinations, passions, while other people hold their opinion seriously that human are omnipotent and could change the world as a whole in the direction of their wills. In my opinion, though human beings could recognize, even alter sometimes, facts to some extent, they would not achieve with deviating from the natures of facts.

In the first place, any facts could not maintain in their former situation without any alteration; in another word, facts change at any time without the limitation of observers. Throughout the whole history of human, whether one is willing or not, he or she would come through different stages in his or her life, from birth to neonate to teenager, to adult, to the age, then to death. Though during thousands of years countless people engaged in looking for medicine against death,  none had ever succeeded. Therefore, we would not go very far to see that facts develop according to its own nature without interruption, unless science and technology have been advanced enough to turn one elder to a young man, or somewhat taking the river back to its origin. These possibilites would still have to obey the nature of the facts, or vice versa.

In the second place, the observers could recognize the same matter from different aspects of these facts and draw their diverse conclusions. There is a very interesting experiment which would aptly illustrate this point. Image a ball suspended by a string from the ceiling in a house. Two persons would look at this ball from the opposite directions and one person see a red ball with the other green. When they exchange their place, they would see what the other has picked up earlier. From this experiment, we could easily conclude that the recognition of the same item would differ according to the diverse standpoints of observers.

However, facts would be changed by the willingness of human sometimes. Throughout the whole history of human race, enormous amounts of achievements, from the huge pyramids to the Great Wall, from intricate internet to the space station, have illuminated this issue to some degree. We must concede that those unbelievable huge architectures manifest some kind of regulations mastered by human being and human can utilize those underlying principles to meet their demands once having discovered them.

At the same time, even though facts sometimes can be altered according to the will of human under delicate planning, they often obey the nature of themselves. In this point, the human being has to accept the disasters at the expense of their civilization once they ignore or overlook the nature of the things. In this time of high degree of urbanization and globalization, countless amount of catastrophes, from air pollution, to the global warming, nuclear leakage, desertification, and so on, all substantiate the importance of recognition on the nature of things. All in all, facts should be altered according to the regulation of themselves.

To conclude, I would claim that facts would develop in the pace of themselves, and human could recognize them in different aspects, and though human have a chance to change the environment in their wills, they must abide by the nature of those things without disobeying.




issue127. "Facts are stubborn things. They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions."

8:32

This statement above put a puzzling question in front of us: Could facts be changed by observers? Some people might sincerely believe that facts are stubborn things, which would not altered by our wishes, inclinations, passions, while other people hold their opinion seriously that human are omnipotent and could change the world as a whole in the direction of their wills. In my opinion, though we might influence facts a little, facts would develop according to their own natures.

In the first place, any facts could not maintain in its former situation without any alteration; on the contrary, facts change at any time without the limitation of observers. Throughout the whole history of human, whether one is willing or not, he or she would develop different stages in his or her life, from birth to neonate to teenage, to adult, to the age, then to death. Though during thousands years countless human engaged in finding some medicine which would keep one remain in his or her young stage, none could achieve in this matter. Therefore, we would not go very far to see that facts develop according to its own nature without the interruption, unless science and technology have been advanced enough to turn one older to a young man, or take the river back to its origin.

In the second place, the observers could recognize the same matter from different aspects of these facts and draw their diverse conclusions. There is a very interesting experiment, which would illustrate this point very well. Image a ball suspended by a string to the ceiling in a house. Two persons would see this ball from the opposite directions and one person see a red ball with the other green. When they exchange their place, they would see what the other has gotten earlier. From this experiment, we could easily conclude that the recognition of the same item would differ according to the diverse aspects held by observers. In another word, how things are to be recognized relies on the wishes, inclinations, or the dictates of passions of observers.

However, facts would be changed by the willingness of human sometimes. Throughout the whole history of human race, enormous amounts of achievements, from the huge pyramids to the Great Wall, from intricate internet to the space station, have illuminated this issue well. Once human has known the regulation which is obeyed by those things, we would utilize them serve to our demand.

However, even though facts would change under the plan of human sometimes, they often obey the nature of themselves. In this point, the human being has to accept the disaster when they would not or are not willing to obey the nature of the things. In this time of high degree of urbanization and globalization, some catastrophes, from air pollution, to the increase on global temperature, to nuclear leakage, to desertification, and so on, all prove the importance of recognition on the nature of things. All in all, facts would change under of the regulation of themselves.

To conclude, I would claim that facts would develop in the pace of themselves, and human could recognize them in different aspects, and though human have a chance to change the environment in their wills, they must abide by the nature of those things without disobeying.
(544 words)
9:17

观点：人类既可认识世界，也可改造世界，但要依照规律。
1、事物不依赖人们而发展。
2、认识事物却依人而不同。
3、人们可以按照规律改造世界。
4、脱离规律会带来灾难。

[ 本帖最后由 iq28 于 2007-6-26 03:07 编辑 ]

木耳UID: 123036

127. "Facts are stubborn things. They cannot be altered by our wishes, our inclinations, or the dictates of our passions."

8:32

This statement above put a puzzling question in front of us: Could facts be changed by observers? Some people might sincerely believe that facts are stubborn things, which would not altered by our wishes, inclinations, passions, while other people hold their opinion seriously that human are omnipotent and could change the world as a whole in the direction of their wills. In my opinion, though we might influence facts a little, facts would develop according to their own natures.

In the first place, any facts could not maintain in its former situation without any alteration; on the contrary, facts change at any time without the limitation of observers. Throughout the whole history of human, (一个人的一生用the whole history of human表示不太好.我觉得翻译成人类的历史更好)whether one is willing or not, he or she would develop different stages in his or her life, from birth to neonate to teenage, to adult, to the age, then to death. Though during thousands(of) years countless human(这里用human beings好像更好) engaged in finding some medicine which would keep one remain in his or her young stage, none could achieve in this matter. Therefore, we would not go very far to see that facts(这里最好加一个限定.是所有的facts都这样吗?) develop according to its(复数) own nature without the interruption, unless science and technology have been advanced enough to turn one older to a young man, or take the river back to its origin.

最后这两句是不是有些画蛇添足了?我觉得没必要.
还有,你真能肯定科技能做到返老还童?

In the second place, the observers could recognize the same matter from different aspects of these facts and draw their diverse conclusions. There is a very interesting experiment, which would illustrate this point very well. Image a ball suspended by a string to the ceiling in a house. Two persons would see this ball from the opposite directions and one person see a red ball with the other green. When they exchange their place, they would see what the other has gotten earlier. From this experiment, we could easily conclude that the recognition of the same item would differ according to the diverse aspects held by observers. In another word, how things are to be recognized relies on the wishes, inclinations, or the dictates of passions of observers.

However, facts would be changed by the willingness of human sometimes. Throughout the whole history of human race, enormous amounts of achievements, from the huge pyramids to the Great Wall, from intricate internet to the space station, have illuminated this issue well. Once human has known the regulation which is obeyed by those things, we would utilize them serve to our demand.

依照规律改造世界.你只是列出了一系列奇迹似的东西,规律二字体显得不明显.

However,(连用两个however,用词有些重复了) even though facts would change under the plan of human sometimes, they often obey the nature of themselves.(单看这个论点好像和第二段有些重复) In this point, the human being has(human beings have)  to accept(用receive更好一些) the disaster(disasters) when they would not or are not willing to obey the nature of the things. In this time of high degree of urbanization and globalization, some catastrophes, from air pollution, to the increase on global temperature, to nuclear leakage, to desertification, and so on, all prove the importance of recognition on the nature of things. All in all, facts would change under of the regulation of themselves.

To conclude, I would claim that facts would develop in the pace of themselves, and human could recognize them in different aspects, and though human have a chance to change the environment in their wills, they must abide by the nature of those things without disobeying.

在形式上已经基本没有问题了.
要有问题也是针对个别题目的理解和论证了

就这篇来讲,总的来说写得很不错.但在分论点的设置顺序上有些乱.

首先是从论点看第二段和第五段有些重复.把第五段的论点换一种说法会好一点.

再有就是段与段之间的逻辑关系有些散.
我会这样写:
客观规律的不可变.比如万有引力定律,比如生老病死
客观规律可以被人认识和利用
历史的看,人们对facts的改造能力是随着时代的进步而不断增强的

imongUID: 140258

This statement above put a puzzling question in front of us: Could facts be changed by observers? Some people might sincerely believe that facts are stubborn things, which would not altered by our wishes, inclinations, passions, while other people hold their opinion seriously that human are omnipotent and could change the world as a whole in the direction of their wills（漂亮！很高兴看到了这样的精彩句子）. In my opinion, though we might influence facts a little, facts would develop according to their own natures.不过这句话就没有上一句那么有味道了。改一下吧。（虽然影响并不大）

In the first place, any facts could not maintain in its（前后到底用单数还是复数？） former situation without any alteration; on the contrary, facts change at any time without the limitation of observers.（没看懂，前后说的是两个论点还是一个？如果是一个，那么on the contrary就用得有问题，如果是两个，在第一句话就说两个论点，而且还是on the contrary的论点，同样不是很好） Throughout the whole history of human, whether one is willing or not, he or she would develop (加一个into?) different stages in his or her life, from birth to neonate to teenage, to adult, to the age, then to death.（这里的连续用词是不是最准确，有待推敲） Though during thousands （少了一个of）years countless human(people，people和human还是不能混用的) engaged in finding some medicine which would keep one remain in his or her young stage（表达的太啰嗦，looking for medicine against death，顺便说一下那个finding不如looking for）, (转折的连词不要丢，yet) none could achieve (had ever succeeded) in this matter(??). Therefore, we would not go very far to see that facts develop according to its own nature without the (the多余) interruption, unless science and technology have been advanced enough to turn one older (one older what? Older在这里是不能作等效名词的) to a young man, or take the river back to its origin（这句话如果是个比喻的话，建议写somewhat taking the …，而且take也值得推敲）. 例子举得非常有力。不过后面那个unless的部分，说实在的，比较多余，等于在最后undermine你的论点，没必要的。

In the second place, the observers could recognize the same matter from different aspects of these facts and draw their diverse conclusions. There is a very interesting experiment, (没有逗号，本来句子就短，这么写太碎了) which would （aptly）illustrate this point very well(去掉very well). Image a ball suspended by a string to（from） the ceiling in a house.虽然这句话没有能够完全写对，但是我仍然认为，太精彩了！这种连续使用介词的表达，非常地道而表述则更是简洁准确。非常高兴看到了这样的句子。当然介词使用起来很复杂的，不容易避免出错，我们应该在掌握原则的基础上尽力去写，大胆使用，最后别忘了检查就是。 Two persons would see this ball from the opposite directions and one person see（换一个动词？） a red ball with the other green. When they exchange their place, they would see what the other has gotten (?) earlier. From this experiment, we could easily conclude that the recognition of the same item would differ according to the diverse aspects held by (aspect held by的话，改成standpoints of?) observers. In another word, how things are to be recognized relies on the wishes, inclinations, or the dictates of passions of observers.这个结论有点问题，和你论述的东西差距比较大的说，这可得回去考虑一下，论证的是observer的出发点不同，可没说wish inclination passion之类的。中间的例证部分，和上一段一样，精彩！

我有必要警告一下，这次两段的论证非常精彩，可千万别每次都毁在最后一句话上！

However, facts would be changed by the willingness of human sometimes. Throughout the whole history of human race, enormous amounts of achievements, from the huge pyramids to the Great Wall, from intricate internet to the space station, have illuminated this issue（这最多也只不过是一个point啊?） well. Once human has known the regulation which is obeyed by those things, we would utilize them serve to our demand. （唉，这可就和上面的句子有差距了，Human can utilize those underlying principles to meet their demands once having discovered them… 我写的这个句子也不是特别好，继续推敲，但是有两点，首先human utilize放在前面做主句也许比较好，其次那个obeyed by是非常不爽的用法）

However,（连续两个however很难受，避免这样用） even though facts would change under the plan of human sometimes（用词顺序！even though facts [/color=red]sometimes can be altered according to the will of human under delicate planning…）, they often obey the nature of themselves. In this point, the human being has to accept the disaster when they would not or are not willing to obey the nature of the things.（不应该这样把话又说回去了，再加上你没说清楚，这样论证的效果大打折扣） In this time of high degree of urbanization and globalization, some（如果后面打算用from to的话前面不要用some） catastrophes, from air pollution, to the increase on(?) global temperature, to nuclear leakage, to desertification, （不是每个item前面都要用to的，from A, to B, C, D, and so forth就可以了）and so on, all prove(?) the importance of recognition on the nature of things. All in all, facts would change under of the regulation of themselves.

To conclude, I would claim that facts would develop in the pace of themselves, and human could recognize them in different aspects, and though human have a chance to change the environment in their wills, they must abide by the nature of those things without disobeying.

很重要的一点，你应该把fact给界定清楚。原来有过关于这个题目的讨论，界定fact是一个关键点（除非你完全agree或者disagree，然后把fact给默认，在论述的时候只字不提…这是后话）。这次主要的问题就在于，本来把话说得好好的，结果到了收尾的时候又去说反面的，自己impair自己的论证，这一点上很不成功。

用词还是一贯的风格，要保持。这次在单段论证做得非常好，两个例子非常精彩，除了上面说的问题，我觉得没有什么更多可以挑剔的。

其实也就是说，如果你要论述一个题目的两方面（A and B），要组织好！如果说，fact有内在规律所以不能alter facts，人可以认识和利用内在规律所以可以alter facts，人不能alter内在规律所以不能alter facts，那到底是能不能alter facts啊？

宏观上的组织要协调，绕晕了就麻烦了。而且你看你的开头，“we human can influence fact a little”，我觉得是因为一开始的时候这个基调定得不准，所以一说到facts和human的问题的时候就有点问题，不过在论述the nature of facts (e.g. medicine against death)的时候还是做得不错的。

这是我今天改的最高兴的一篇文章了，忍不住啰啰嗦嗦说了一大堆。继续努力。还是老样子，意见里面难免出错，自己要复查的。:D

imongUID: 140258

居然和木耳同时改这篇……
看来我们落实奖励做得很到位嘛 :D

木耳UID: 123036

最初由 imong 发布
[B]居然和木耳同时改这篇……
看来我们落实奖励做得很到位嘛 :D [/B]

呵呵,还是imong改得细啊.

fortitudesagUID: 139374

谢谢木耳、谢谢imong：

to 木耳：
1、 Therefore, we would not go very far to see that facts(这里最好加一个限定.是所有的facts都这样吗?) develop according to their own nature without the interruption, unless science and technology have been advanced enough to turn one older to a young man, or take the river back to its origin.
最后这两句是不是有些画蛇添足了?我觉得没必要.
还有,你真能肯定科技能做到返老还童?
--------------------当然不会，unless只是用来限定，我不太会限定facts，因为我压根不能精确定义facts（限时），用unless限定是从 EST sample2 第二段末学到的。写到二段末，想到不能太绝对，就加了个限定。我看until 也行，只是当时想到unless。
2、 even though facts would change under the plan of human sometimes, they often obey the nature of themselves.(单看这个论点好像和第二段有些重复)------------------------第二段讲被动认识，五段讲主动改造（四五段都是）。

to imong:
1.   develop (加一个into?) different stages in his or her life-------------词霸里develop没有经历的意思，experience又不太合适用于指人，
Our country has experienced great changes in the last thirty years.
我国在过去三十年经历了巨大变化。
2.   (转折的连词不要丢，yet)---------------我在句首用了though，是不是不能再用了？
3、some（如果后面打算用from to的话前面不要用some）--------------------为什么？我搞不懂。

fortitudesagUID: 139374

This statement above put a puzzling question in front of us: Could facts be changed by observers? Some people might sincerely believe that facts are stubborn things, which would not altered by our wishes, inclinations, passions, while other people hold their opinion seriously that human are omnipotent and could change the world as a whole in the direction of their wills. In my opinion, though human beings could recognize, even alter sometimes, facts to some extent, they would not achieve with deviating from the natures of facts.

In the first place, any facts could not maintain in their former situation without any alteration; in another word, facts change at any time without the limitation of observers. Throughout the whole history of human, whether one is willing or not, he or she would come through different stages in his or her life, from birth to neonate to teenager, to adult, to the age, then to death. Though during thousands of years countless people engaged in looking for medicine against death,  none had ever succeeded. Therefore, we would not go very far to see that facts develop according to its own nature without interruption, unless science and technology have been advanced enough to turn one elder to a young man, or somewhat taking the river back to its origin. These possibilites would still have to obey the nature of the facts, or vice versa.

In the second place, the observers could recognize the same matter from different aspects of these facts and draw their diverse conclusions. There is a very interesting experiment which would aptly illustrate this point. Image a ball suspended by a string from the ceiling in a house. Two persons would look at this ball from the opposite directions and one person see a red ball with the other green. When they exchange their place, they would see what the other has picked up earlier. From this experiment, we could easily conclude that the recognition of the same item would differ according to the diverse standpoints of observers.

However, facts would be changed by the willingness of human sometimes. Throughout the whole history of human race, enormous amounts of achievements, from the huge pyramids to the Great Wall, from intricate internet to the space station, have illuminated this issue to some degree. We must concede that those unbelievable huge architectures manifest some kind of regulations mastered by human being and human can utilize those underlying principles to meet their demands once having discovered them.

At the same time, even though facts sometimes can be altered according to the will of human under delicate planning, they often obey the nature of themselves. In this point, the human being has to accept the disasters at the expense of their civilization once they ignore or overlook the nature of the things. In this time of high degree of urbanization and globalization, countless amount of catastrophes, from air pollution, to the global warming, nuclear leakage, desertification, and so on, all substantiate the importance of recognition on the nature of things. All in all, facts should be altered according to the regulation of themselves.

To conclude, I would claim that facts would develop in the pace of themselves, and human could recognize them in different aspects, and though human have a chance to change the environment in their wills, they must abide by the nature of those things without disobeying.

imongUID: 140258

抱歉，那个though没看见，如果那样的话应该就没有yet了。

那个some和from to的事情，我完全是凭感觉的，我就是感觉some和from to不应该放在一起，你再问问别人？

develop的话，我想的是develop into different stages，不过看来和你想说的还有一定差距。没关系，再想想吧。

genie05UID: 30358

In this time of high degree of urbanization and globalization, some（如果后面打算用from to的话前面不要用some） catastrophes, from air pollution, to the increase on(?) global temperature, to nuclear leakage, to desertification, （不是每个item前面都要用to的，from A, to B, C, D, and so forth就可以了）and so on, all prove(?) the importance of recognition on the nature of things.

确实要没有SOME的舒服一些，但是我不觉得有语法问题就是了。

还有TO 不能省略吧？

geschtaltUID: 30489

Though during thousands of years countless people engaged in looking for medicine against death, none had ever succeeded.

这一句可否改为：
Though during thousands of years countless people are engaged in...

geschtaltUID: 30489

looking for medicine against death，
改得好

fortitudesagUID: 139374

谢谢光顾指导！
从词霸：
engage
vi. 从事, 参加(in)

be engaged in
正做着, 正忙着
be engage oneself in
正做着, 正忙着

Women were less likely than men to engage in regular leisure-time
physical activities in age groups 18-24 years, 25-64 years, and 75 years and over. ...
www.cdc.gov/nchs/about/major/nhis/ released200202/figure07_2.htm - 4k - 网页快照 - 类似网页
We must engage in copyright debate By Dan Gillmor Mercury News Technology Columnist. If you can set the rules, you can win the contest. That's the major reason the entertainment cartel is winning the debate over copyright in the Digital Age. ...
www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/3842508.htm - 40k - 2003年12月8日 - 网页快照 - 类似网页

Parents Must be engaged in the Education of Their Children One of the greatest challenges that faces any parent is the education of their children. All too often, this critical component to growth and development is delegated to the public school system or private schools. Is this wrong? ...
www.aclj.org/news/bibpers/020725_education.asp - 20k - 网页快照 - 类似网页
---------------------是不是有一点被动的味道。我的这篇好像不适合。

geschtaltUID: 30489

一般指忙于，乐衷于的意思
习惯用法，后加动名词或现在分词

geschtaltUID: 30489

Throughout the whole history of human race, enormous amounts of achievements, ...
human race前一般要加定冠词的
In this point, the human being has to...
一般是用作复数“人们”“人类”可改为human beings have to...

geschtaltUID: 30489

In the first place, any facts could not maintain in their former situation without any alteration; in another word, facts change at any time without the limitation of observers.

Therefore, we would not go very far to see that facts develop according to its own nature without interruption, unless science and technology have been advanced enough to turn one elder to a young man, or somewhat taking the river back to its origin.

有点看不明白的说。谢谢！