ICMA的ISIB， EXETER的FAFM，爱大的FI，曼大的Finance 如何抉择？求解析

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gxhereiam 发表于 2015-9-30 00:12
第二，我没有提及division,是因为我暂时还不知道往具体的哪个方向发展，因为无论是buy side, sell side，我都有兴趣。

this is exactly the problem. Just use ibank as example, different division have very different requirement of skill set. Just imagine IBD vs Equity Research VS Risk VS Compliance.
No one is a superman and have the technics to fit all of them. If you don't have an idea now, and you master is only one year, well, you are out.
and indeed this is the shortcoming of any MSF indeed....imagine a MSF student are competiting a risk roel with MFE, a compliance role with LLM, a equity research role with a Acct & Fina student.....

gxhereiam 发表于 2015-9-30 00:12
第三，其实finance也并非完全就在说一些理论的东西，现在很多课程设置都是挺Quantitative, 并且也有很多选修课。如果是 financial risk management的话，还有programming这些。

1. seldom MSc Finance are really theory, those are in the economics & finance program. a normal MSc only teach the easiest and practical stuffs that student are always self-study (i.e. just like self-study for CFA) let me use Edinburgh as an example: a true theory finance master can lead one to PhD in financial economics, e.g. MSc Economics (Finance).
2. Quantitative and Programming? hahahahaha, try to be in a technical interview with a MFE student? (e.g. MSc Financial Mathematics) Wish you good luck.

gxhereiam 发表于 2015-9-30 00:12
target school，只是说法不同而已，何必纠结。

The industry have a formal definition about what "target school" means. Of course I don't care that you make this wrong, but this is just an indicator that you are not yet ready.

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cheesechan 发表于 2015-9-30 00:27
二，我没有提及division,是因为我暂时还不知道往具体的哪个方向发展，因为无论是buy side, sell side，我 ...

？？？？？

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gxhereiam 发表于 2015-9-30 00:21
其实后两个名气比较大一点，但是EXETER的FAFM是专业为过CFA1,2级设置的，课程时间也是根据CFA考试时间设 ...

我这种没有CFA/FRM等等，也进过Barclay的怎么说，我童鞋就没有有证的。。分布在GOlDMAN SACHS, CITI，Credit Sussie，Deutsche，BNP，Morgan Stanley。。。这种证，我个人觉着除非两个人学校，成绩及相关实习经历十分接近，秉承一种惯例，有证的First。。还有FI是爱大商学院比较好的硕士项目，这应该还是相对有保证的，ICMA你说的实操，你不是ICMA的PHD（ICMA确实有几个教授Trading界很有名，比如当年的Carol，我就申过她的PHD），基本就属于混个眼熟，真的，CASS，如果是当年硕士有PSW，在伦敦，勉强有Outlier能留下。。你在上述项目都找不到相关英国当地实习的前提下，很明显，项目的期望最好的应该是后两个。。金融你只是想做的话，一个实习，远比你以上几个学校的学位重要。

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treemantan 发表于 2015-9-30 00:37
我这种没有CFA/FRM等等，也进过Barclay的怎么说，我童鞋就没有有证的。。分布在GOlDMAN SACHS, CITI，Cre ...

As far as i know, bank and fund don't care much about certificates for entry roles. Maybe smaller firm will care a bit more about that.

What is the most important and previous internship & school, and GPA. Major are kind of useful for some more specific division especially when technical interview exists.

Cass is a half target with only local reputation, i.e. useless for those don't plan to stay in London. Of course if one have a UK passport and get into the flagship program of Cass (e.g. trading, actuarial...) then things are perfectly fine.


P.S. honestly i don't know / care is the master FI is a relatively good program within edinburgh business school since seldom the industry care about her....(edinburgh is not a school famous for business....)
every MSF teach the similar stuffs, given general finance is not a really technical discipline, it is hard for one MSF to outperform another by using the program structure or education quality.



and given that UK are already famous for earning ￡￡ by printing master certificate, do you think that the later two will really boost the CV?  Well, if it is oxbridge lbs lse ic maybe also ucl, it does....but the rest? well...getting to operation is still not a dream,  but why need the master then?
=>none of them are useful. Best solution is to take none of them and work for a couple of years first.

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cheesechan 发表于 2015-9-30 00:53
As far as i know, bank and fund don't care much about certificates for entry roles. Maybe smalle ...

其实，我只想说，真的好有理，先工作，确实是适合LZ的选择之一~其实我还有一个想法，先拿到UoE或者M大的学位，再连续第二年读个G5的硕士，一年成本大概30万-35万，第二年如果在伦敦的话，准备40w-45w应该也够了，英国这边换学校读硕士不是那么不常见。。

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treemantan 发表于 2015-9-30 01:34
其实，我只想说，真的好有理，先工作，确实是适合LZ的选择之一~其实我还有一个想法，先拿到UoE或者M大的学 ...

Spending 750,000 for a master?
Does it worth that?

Why don't save the $$ for whatever master after a few year of working experience then?

P.S. the first question come to my mind when i read this thread is: what's the difference between throwing money into Pacific and Atlantic Ocean?

I remember that once upon a time, I asked someone (with visa already) who did a finance master in a UK school at the same level as listed here, why went to frankfurt for internship? The answer was: well, it is not that easy to find a role in london...

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cheesechan 发表于 2015-9-30 01:48
Spending 750,000 for a master?
Does it worth that?

It seems true but actually, it depends on his family wealth，750k is not that big amounts for a middle-class Chinese family even in a second-tier city (in long term view, in this kind of family, perhaps what they value the most is just to make big difference. If he could do the second Master like in LSE,IC or even OxCam, actually, not that hard if he get an Distinction in either UoE or Manchester, what the chance he would enter into the financial industrial improve a lot either in London or China. But the position he got is case by case. ) Btw, I probably speculate that he could just get some peripheral working experiences based on the programs he got. Thus it still could not make big difference but I should admit he could understand further about what he should get to improve his position in the corresponding financial institution compared to the present situation.

As to the MSF, Your MSF program needs big name for the school which means good networks/Career Service that means higher possibility of getting intern, which leads to the final job in the local area, plus maybe good location for balancing academic work and industrial training.

waterskopUID: 3590880

其实楼上两位前辈已经说得很明白了。
根据我了解的自己身边的情况，曼大F团队下program回国做投行的没有，进四大的一大堆。据我所知的，华威的F&E回国进投行的也没有，也是进四大的很多。
至于其他几所，不了解。
仅供参考。

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cheesechan 发表于 2015-9-30 00:53
As far as i know, bank and fund don't care much about certificates for entry roles. Maybe smalle ...

* 虽然UK的很多学校是为了赚钱，但是也不能代表赚钱就=教学质量不行吧。

* CASS商学院那么有名你说不行，因为它没世界名气。但是爱大你又说它nor famous for business...
it seems a bit contradictory...是综合名气重要还是专业名气重要。当然像LBS,LSE……这种两者皆有的学校自然是极好。只是像我这loser, 也就还是去爱大曼大这种等级的比较合适。

* 我同意你的其他观点看法，Thank you for taking time to answer my questions! It helps a lot!

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treemantan 发表于 2015-9-30 01:34
其实，我只想说，真的好有理，先工作，确实是适合LZ的选择之一~其实我还有一个想法，先拿到UoE或者M大的学 ...

双硕士的想法确实好，就是机会成本较高了一点。不过如果读second硕士的话，我会比较倾向在HKU，毕业直接就在那边工作了，而在UK，毕业留下来的几率小，风险大，也并不打算长居UK。当然，如果仅仅看教学和名气，G5比港大好。

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waterskop 发表于 2015-9-30 10:23
其实楼上两位前辈已经说得很明白了。
根据我了解的自己身边的情况，曼大F团队下program回国做投行的没有， ...

华威竟也没有？表示有点吃惊。曼大感觉越来越水，这个也是我担心的地方。
ICMA和EXETER我也是后来才了解到的，不过事实证明这2个programs确实更低一个level。

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gxhereiam 发表于 2015-9-30 13:51
* 虽然UK的很多学校是为了赚钱，但是也不能代表赚钱就=教学质量不行吧。

* CASS商学院那么有名你说不行，因为它没世界名气。但是爱大你又说它nor famous for business...
it seems a bit contradictory...是综合名气重要还是专业名气重要。当然像LBS,LSE……这种两者皆有的学校自然是极好。只是像我这loser, 也就还是去爱大曼大这种等级的比较合适。

1. I think I have to make it clear: I don't care about education quality for a MSc Finance. Whether it is good or bad, I don't care. Finance is not a technical discipline, one cannot bet other by hard skills, and what's important is the network and reputation.

2. CASS商学院那么有名? well.......famous =/= good, and I don't really consider Cass as a really famous one. Given you plan to back China, since Cass is a semi-target somehow because of the location, it is not for you.
Edinburgh: you check the overall ranking of UK university, you will most likely find Edinburgh out of top 10. It is neither a top (but good) university in UK, nor a good business school (seems they do have a excellent medical school...)

3. 综合名气重要还是专业名气重要? the view of the industry of the place one plan to work matters the most.
for example, Bocconi, the best business school in Italy, is very well-regarded in Europe, a solid target for BB FO in London. A very good industrial reputation in Europe (only). Imagine what will happen if one get a degree from it without any internship experience and go back to China. Compare someone with a degree from......um say H University of Berlin? At least people will heard of Berlin but not Bocconi.

4. Warwick is a solid target for London but her reputation is limited within UK and her former colony(e.g. HK)....UCL is already marginal if back China....not to mention the rest.

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cheesechan 发表于 2015-9-30 15:42
1. I think I have to make it clear: I don't care about education quality for a MSc Finance. Whet ...

* 如果是Finance Engineering, Financial Risk Management，etc这些你还会觉得没有什么技术性吗？MSc Finance 除了complusory course, 还有elective course可以选的，而EC list里面就有一些technical的课程。所以并不是说读纯Finance program 就是没有技术可言，只是多与少。至于你说的network, reputation，我很赞同。

*CASS这方面，确实也是考虑到在mainland China 的名气不行。

* 爱大在英国的TIMES确实排名不高，但是QS世界排名高，mainland China or HK一般情况只看QS。确实，我也很同意general reputation的重要性。

* 你说的UCL和华威在mainland这边没名气，其实是针对那些业外人士而言吧。像业内的，大多数都知道warwick business school可以。（其实CASS在金融业内估计也挺多人知道吧）

* LBS，LSE这些top-tier我现阶段是申请不到的，所以着眼实际不眼高手低。
* Thanks for your reply!

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gxhereiam 发表于 2015-9-30 16:43
* 如果是Finance Engineering, Financial Risk Management，etc这些你还会觉得没有什么技术性吗？MSc Fin ...

1.  Technical......well, be honest, we don't only look into the name of the course, but also the content. Course in business school tend to be less technical than the counterpart in science / engineering school. Most "technical" finance course in business school are a joke to a solid MFE student.
Imagine that for a risk role, you are in an interview with a Risk student, or a MFE student. They have all their master in those technical stuffs, from Stochastic calculus to various derivative model and risk measure, which you had just read a few chapter of the John-Hull book.......of course you can say it is not 没有技术可言, that's true, but really good luck to you then.
(why one have to waste time on corporate finance / equity valuation model if one plan for a quantitative role?)
(and well....yes, some business school program are still okay in terms of technical skills, okay enough for some role, but technical skills can only be shown during an interview, so......good like to those non-target one...)

2. QS ranking and the city of Edinburgh are exactly the reason why I will put it over ICMA and Exeter. and indeed I will say a school is not famous enough if the HR has to check the QS in order to recognize it (e.g. who cares the QS ranking of IC LSE?)

3. Warwick.....well, refer to #24.

4. if "着眼实际不眼高手低", then don't even think of "向往投行基金方向发展".....