issue157 主观的客观的观察~

boyjimUID: 125249

157"There is no such thing as purely objective observation. All observation is subjective; it is always guided by the observer's expectations or desires."
以前写的~看到zhizhi写了~把它放上来吧
1我们的内在的不完美导致了客观永远只能存在于我们的理想状态
2我们现有的知识和水平的高低必然导致对认识观察的程度的不同
3不单止内在和外在的缺陷~一个社会或者某个人也会影响我们的观察的结果
正文------------
In the ceaseless history of mortal, observation ushered a glory continuity, which to us appears as elementary way to acquire knowledge, understand and explain the world we are not familiar with. Notwithstanding, there are a multitude of people who cherish a belief that all the observation is limited result from both our inner flaw and the seemingly flawless knowledge we gained. It is indeed the case from my point of view.

One of the great tragedies in the world is that we invariably believe “seeing is believing”, and all the things we see is objective, naïvely and even presumptuously and arbitrarily. It is innate flaw of human that hamper our ability to construe the unknown, explore the mystery, uncover the enigma. In the world of dogs, they can only see two colors because of the paucity of visional sensitivity, which we may consider dull and colorless. In the sight of human, the world manifests as three-dimension and we are satisfied with the colors we can see. However, compared with talent painter, more often than not, we are inferior to them in terms of distinguishing colors because we are less sensitive than them. As a consequence, what invariably happened is that what we faithful believed and cherished truth may already fall into the abyss of false in the view of extraterrestrials. Thus, a serious question aroused: how do we define "objective". This envelops the truth with a vague air, and like all the scientists believed, we can never touch the truth, even a slight, but we always are chasing close to it.

Notwithstanding, the sad truth is that not only do our intrinsic ability limit our understanding of the world, but also the knowledge we learnt and the methodology we gain are flawed for the reason that they are generated by our inherent flawed ability and imperfect. Industriously as we stick to pursue the reality of the world, what we acquired is always based on the established knowledge and we fail to breach through the knowledge in existence. Ironically, with dubious methods and skeptical assumption to observe, how can we finish the job objectively?  

Great as Newton, his belief hamper our understanding of the microcosmic world, and not until the Einstein’s theory appeared, it was still prevailing. Thus, seemingly well-grounded scientific evidence can serve obstacles to realize the world, let alone the influence of religions and mythology. As the wheel of history passed by, increasingly more mistakes will be unfolded. But, should we attribute all these subjective observational mistaken to the ones who generated them? Maybe it should be ascribed to the anachronism, in my opinion. But the results would turn out to be bitter were all the established knowledge demolished, therefore we still have to preserve it.

Such is observation, a seemingly reasonable and objective but intrinsic and extrinsic flawed paradox. Never can we touch the profundity of objective observation, but we are always closed. Never can we reach it, but we are always in want of pursuing. Never can we construe it, but we seldom lose our firm will.

victoriazhizhiUID: 163135

我晕 怎么刚改完了我的 立马就发了一篇丫！

学习下

晚上放上来 看提纲貌似很深奥

victoriazhizhiUID: 163135

157"There is no such thing as purely objective observation. All observation is subjective; it is always guided by the observer's expectations or desires."
以前写的~看到zhizhi写了~把它放上来吧
1我们的内在的不完美导致了客观永远只能存在于我们的理想状态
2我们现有的知识和水平的高低必然导致对认识观察的程度的不同
3不单止内在和外在的缺陷~一个社会或者某个人也会影响我们的观察的结果
-_-! 提纲貌似深奥哲理的样子，bless~~正文我能看懂了

正文------------
In the ceaseless history of mortal, observation ushered a glory continuity, which to us appears as elementary way to acquire knowledge, understand and explain the world we are not familiar with.哇啦拉，这种开头我也用过，我觉得效果还好了，很深沉的样子，嘿嘿。不过这个前半截和observation联系不上啊 Notwithstanding, there are a multitude of people who cherish a belief that all the observation is limited result from both our inner flaw and the seemingly flawless knowledge we gained. It is indeed the case from my point of view.

One of the great tragedies in the world is that we invariably believe “seeing is believing”, and all the things we see is objective, naïvely我想问下这是怎么打出来的-_-!! and even presumptuously and arbitrarily. It is innate flaw of human that hamper our ability to construe the unknown, explore the mystery, uncover the enigma. In the world of dogs, they can only see two colors because of the paucity of visional sensitivity, which we may consider dull and colorless. In the sight of human, the world manifests as three-dimension and we are satisfied with the colors we can see. However, compared with talent painter, more often than not, we are inferior to them in terms of distinguishing colors because we are less sensitive than them. As a consequence, what invariably happened is that what we faithful believed and cherished truth may already fall into the abyss of false in the view of extraterrestrials. Thus, a serious question aroused: how do we define "objective". -_-! 我想哭了。。。This envelops the truth with a vague air, and like all the scientists believed, we can never touch the truth, even a slight, but we always are chasing close to it.ft,我果然看的不够明白，属于基本上领会了，但是不知道该说什么的感觉。诶，先看完了的吧

Notwithstanding, the sad truth is that not only do our intrinsic ability看到这里，我才想起来个事儿，这个intrinsic flaw/ability 到底是虾米？也刚好是我上文没看太明白的一个原因吧，一直没有点透，貌似看懂了，对你列举的现象也表示同意，但是又不太知道为什么limit our understanding of the world, but also the knowledge we learnt and the methodology we gain are flawed for the reason that they are generated by our inherent flawed ability and imperfect. Industriously as we stick to pursue the reality of the world, what we acquired is always based on the established knowledge and we fail to breach through the knowledge in existence. Ironically, with dubious methods and skeptical assumption to observe, how can we finish the job objectively? 啊啊啊！再次晕倒。汗颜的说，我又没太明白。那个那个，我说题目吧，我觉得你对问题的复杂性分析的有些太太太多了，而且回避了题目，完全在讨论objective是什么意思，能否达到。然后也不提观察到底是什么的，因为objective这些问题没有解决对不对？庄子老师的作文看多了吧，晕，先继续看下去。

Great as Newton, his belief hamper our understanding of the microcosmic world, and not until the Einstein’s theory appeared, it was still prevailing. Thus, seemingly well-grounded scientific evidence can serve obstacles to realize the world, let alone the influence of religions and mythology. As the wheel of history passed by, increasingly more mistakes will be unfolded. But, should we attribute all these subjective observational mistaken to the ones who generated them? Maybe it should be ascribed to the anachronism, in my opinion. But the results would turn out to be bitter were all the established knowledge demolished, therefore we still have to preserve it.

Such is observation, a seemingly reasonable and objective but intrinsic and extrinsic flawed paradox. Never can we touch the profundity of objective observation, but we are always closed. Never can we reach it, but we are always in want of pursuing. Never can we construe it, but we seldom lose our firm will.

天呀！我不是很明白你的内容，就说说你的思路吧，我觉得还是过于复杂了。说实话，我看庄子老师的作文都觉得很悲愤，貌似所有的一休题目的关键词都是一个需要探讨半天的问题，于是说这个问题都米有解决，我们还说什么下面的问题呢？我觉得你这篇和他的风格就挺像的，个人感觉这样的写法不是很把握的，容易失控，而且对问题的分析复杂的太厉害了，诶。还有个问题，我觉得你在努力的让你的文章深奥又华丽，用了很多大词，我需要借助金山才可以看明白，然后有的词我查了下，觉得不是很恰当，建议用词上再斟酌下。抱歉，没有给批改出什么好的结论，等鬼鬼给你看吧

boyjimUID: 125249

zhizhi真让我哭笑不得~~~我不过在说我们所有的客观不过都是自己定义出来的~那么既然客观都是我们定义出来的了~我们又如何说自己客观呢？这个本身就是一个悖论~然后我分三点来说
首先是我们本身的人类的自身的局限性~我们认为完美的东西在其他生物上面是不完美的~
我举例子用了所有狗狗是色盲~但是对于外星球文明~人类的视觉又何尝不是呢
其次~我说我们的所有的观察必须要有方法~而这些方法也是有我们自身发明的~既然我们自身的局限性，自身发明的东西没有别人的评价我们如何就已经认定我们的方法客观呢？
第三段我主要是来进一步证明第二段的内容~我们认为的科学的客观性已经受到质疑的时候~如果还有我们已经了解是非科学的东西~比如宗教等等~的影响的话~那么我们就必将是不可能客观的了解这个世界了~同时~我也让步~即使这些事不客观的~我们也有必要去坚持这些方法~尽自己的可能去让自己发现这个世界的真理~虽然这个可能永远都达不到

5555555555我的表达有问题~~~~zhizhi都看不懂了~~~~~~~~~~~~~`55555555

mondiaUID: 193825

No.1 issue157 主观的客观的观察~
157"There is no such thing as purely objective observation. All observation is subjective; it is always guided by the observer's expectations or desires."
以前写的~看到zhizhi写了~把它放上来吧
1我们的内在的不完美导致了客观永远只能存在于我们的理想状态
2我们现有的知识和水平的高低必然导致对认识观察的程度的不同
3不单止内在和外在的缺陷~一个社会或者某个人也会影响我们的观察的结果

希望没牵涉到测不准原理。。。

正文------------
In the ceaseless history of mortal, observation ushered a glory continuity, which to us appears as elementary way to acquire knowledge,to understand and explain the world we are not familiar with. Notwithstanding, there are a multitude of people who cherish a belief that all the observation is limited result from both our inner flaw and the seemingly flawless knowledge we gained. It is indeed the case from my point of view.

One of the great tragedies in the world is that we invariably believe “seeing is believing”是这样翻么？, and all the things we see is objective, naïvely and even presumptuously and arbitrarily. It is innate flaw of humanas a kind of animal ?that hamper our ability to construe the unknown, explore the mystery, uncover the enigma. In the world of dogs, they can only see two colors because of the paucity of visional sensitivity, which we may consider dull and colorless. In the sight of human, the world manifests as three-dimension and we are satisfied with the colors we can see. However, compared with talent painter, more often than not, we are inferior to them in terms of distinguishing colors because we are less sensitive than them. As a consequence, what invariably happened is that what we faithful believed and cherished truth may already fall into the abyss of false in the view of extraterrestrials.
狗-人，人-外星人；色彩，认知只是提出对人类认识的质疑；但质疑不代表证明其否吧；只是“描述”了限制，而未“证明”；文中的“先天缺陷”似乎成了不证自明的信仰；拿自己的信仰去驳别人，没什么逻辑说服力吧
Thus, a serious question aroused: how do we define "objective". This envelops the truth with a vague air, and like all the scientists believed, we can never touch the truth, even a slight, but we always are chasing close to it.客观的定义先天是主观的

Notwithstanding, the sadworse truth is that not only do our intrinsic ability limit our understanding of the world, but also the knowledge we learnt and the methodology we gain are flawed for the reason that they are generated by our inherent flawed ability and imperfect. Industriously as we stick to pursue the reality of the world, what we acquired is always based on the established knowledge and we fail to breach through the knowledge in existence. Ironically, with dubious methods and skeptical assumption to observe, how can we finish the job objectively? 有点不可知论的感觉

Great as Newton, his belief hamper our understanding of the microcosmic world, and not until the Einstein’s theory appeared, it was still prevailing. Thus, seemingly well-grounded scientific evidence can serve obstacles to realize the world, let alone the influence of religions and mythology. As the wheel of history passed by, increasingly more mistakes will be unfolded. But, should we attribute all these subjective observational mistaken to the ones who generated them? Maybe it should be ascribed to the anachronism, in my opinion. But the results would turn out to be bitter were all the established knowledge demolished, therefore we still have to preserve it.质疑人类螺旋式的认识规律么？

Such is observation, a seemingly reasonable and objective but intrinsic and extrinsic flawed paradox. Never can we touch the profundity of objective observation, but we are always closed. Never can we reach it, but we are always in want of pursuing. Never can we construe it, but we seldom lose our firm will.



不好意思，批成这样。。。
感觉不是很 constructive
这个文章应该是即兴而做的吧；
可能先入为主的缘故，
觉得有些地方值得商榷

victoriazhizhiUID: 163135

zhizhi真让我哭笑不得~~~我不过在说我们所有的客观不过都是自己定义出来的~那么既然客观都是我们定义出来的了~我们又如何说自己客观呢？这就是我后来说的啊，你在学习庄子老师的风格吧，对一个题目，你分析了半天然后说，这个关键词都是捉摸不定的，无法确定的，所以再探究下一步是有困难的对么？我个人感觉这样的写法不是很把握，好的话可以分析的很清楚，但也容易绕不明白，即使分析明白了，我觉得对于题目的复杂性也弄的过分了有些，以至于回避了题目原来的观点。这个本身就是一个悖论~然后我分三点来说

首先是我们本身的人类的自身的局限性~我们认为完美的东西在其他生物上面是不完美的~
我举例子用了所有狗狗是色盲~但是对于外星球文明~人类的视觉又何尝不是呢
其次~我说我们的所有的观察必须要有方法~而这些方法也是有我们自身发明的~既然我们自身的局限性，自身发明的东西没有别人的评价我们如何就已经认定我们的方法客观呢？
第三段我主要是来进一步证明第二段的内容~我们认为的科学的客观性已经受到质疑的时候~如果还有我们已经了解是非科学的东西~比如宗教等等~的影响的话~那么我们就必将是不可能客观的了解这个世界了~同时~我也让步~即使这些事不客观的~我们也有必要去坚持这些方法~尽自己的可能去让自己发现这个世界的真理~虽然这个可能永远都达不到

5555555555我的表达有问题~~~~zhizhi都看不懂了~~~~~~~~~~~~~`55555555不是我都看不懂了，说实话我现在看你上面这段汉语都困惑，大概是我不习惯这类写法吧，觉得还是straight to the point 直接探讨题目说到的内容。

boyjimUID: 125249

最初由 victoriazhizhi 发布
[B]zhizhi真让我哭笑不得~~~我不过在说我们所有的客观不过都是自己定义出来的~那么既然客观都是我们定义出来的了~我们又如何说自己客观呢？这就是我后来说的啊，?.

以下省略...... [/B]

其实我也就是分析我们为什么不能客观观察而已....

boyjimUID: 125249

No.1 issue157 主观的客观的观察~
157"There is no such thing as purely objective observation. All observation is subjective; it is always guided by the observer's expectations or desires."
以前写的~看到zhizhi写了~把它放上来吧
1我们的内在的不完美导致了客观永远只能存在于我们的理想状态
2我们现有的知识和水平的高低必然导致对认识观察的程度的不同
3不单止内在和外在的缺陷~一个社会或者某个人也会影响我们的观察的结果

希望没牵涉到测不准原理。。。 ["principle of uncertainty"你说得真有用啊~]

正文------------
In the ceaseless history of mortal, observation ushered a glory continuity, which to us appears as elementary way to acquire knowledge,to understand and explain the world we are not familiar with. Notwithstanding, there are a multitude of people who cherish a belief that all the observation is limited result from both our inner flaw and the seemingly flawless knowledge we gained. It is indeed the case from my point of view.

One of the great tragedies in the world is that we invariably believe “seeing is believing”是这样翻么？ [是的~] , and all the things we see is objective, naïvely and even presumptuously and arbitrarily. It is innate flaw of humanas a kind of animal ?that hamper our ability to construe the unknown, explore the mystery, uncover the enigma. In the world of dogs, they can only see two colors because of the paucity of visional sensitivity, which we may consider dull and colorless. In the sight of human, the world manifests as three-dimension and we are satisfied with the colors we can see. However, compared with talent painter, more often than not, we are inferior to them in terms of distinguishing colors because we are less sensitive than them. As a consequence, what invariably happened is that what we faithful believed and cherished truth may already fall into the abyss of false in the view of extraterrestrials.
狗-人，人-外星人；色彩，认知只是提出对人类认识的质疑；但质疑不代表证明其否吧；只是“描述”了限制，而未“证明”；文中的“先天缺陷”似乎成了不证自明的信仰；拿自己的信仰去驳别人，没什么逻辑说服力吧 [我觉得加入连显微镜都没有发明~那么我们如何证明细胞的内部是怎么样呢？条件决定了我们的认识的深度~由于自身的不足我们对于客观的定义仅仅是符合我们现在的客观的含义~当我们对问题认识得更加深入的时候~我们则会有新的定义~所以先天缺陷不是信仰~而是一种现实存在~就好像狗突破不了他的世界的局限~人类一样突破不了自身的局限~人的脑部思维开发仅仅开发了百分之多少~爱因斯坦比我们多开发了一些~他就能看得远些~我们通过我们的观察认为我们的世界是这样的一个三维的世界~但是科学家的弦理论却告诉我们另一个完全不同的世界~就好像《大腕》里面说的~境界不同，眼光就不同~既然有境界的不同~那么我们如何定义客观呢~客观本来的定义就是绝对的~一点点的暧昧都会导致主观的产生~] Thus, a serious question aroused: how do we define "objective". This envelops the truth with a vague air, and like all the scientists believed, we can never touch the truth, even a slight, but we always are chasing close to it.客观的定义先天是主观的

Notwithstanding, the sadworse truth is that not only do our intrinsic ability limit our understanding of the world, but also the knowledge we learnt and the methodology we gain are flawed for the reason that they are generated by our inherent flawed ability and imperfect. Industriously as we stick to pursue the reality of the world, what we acquired is always based on the established knowledge and we fail to breach through the knowledge in existence. Ironically, with dubious methods and skeptical assumption to observe, how can we finish the job objectively? 有点不可知论的感觉 [连我们自身的知识都是有这种境界所决定的~我们的世界就是不可知的~我的看法阿~~哈哈~~]

Great as Newton, his belief hamper our understanding of the microcosmic world, and not until the Einstein’s theory appeared, it was still prevailing. Thus, seemingly well-grounded scientific evidence can serve obstacles to realize the world, let alone the influence of religions and mythology. As the wheel of history passed by, increasingly more mistakes will be unfolded. But, should we attribute all these subjective observational mistaken to the ones who generated them? Maybe it should be ascribed to the anachronism, in my opinion. But the results would turn out to be bitter were all the established knowledge demolished, therefore we still have to preserve it.质疑人类螺旋式的认识规律么？ [我的意思是即使我们存在着缺陷“就好像身负原罪一样”，我们还是有必要进行我们认为最客观的观察~来一点点积极的思想吧~不想太过灰暗]

Such is observation, a seemingly reasonable and objective but intrinsic and extrinsic flawed paradox. Never can we touch the profundity of objective observation, but we are always closed. Never can we reach it, but we are always in want of pursuing. Never can we construe it, but we seldom lose our firm will.

Mondia你的分析很有见地~什么时候跟你讨论一下哲学问题~俺煞是有兴趣涅~ :D

mondiaUID: 193825

随便说了个物理术语,就被....

楼主英语好强!

有机会还是用中文谈好了..... :cool:

天晴了UID: 201592

【EXCELLENT ESSAY WITH PROFUNDITY AND ORIGINALITY】^_^好喜欢的说！！！
To：jimboy
全文论证了：There is no such thing as purely objective observation. All observation is subjective;
但是“自身缺陷”和“现有知识水瓶”和“社会影响”都是客观限制所致，并非主观上人类希望的，这种被动的“主观”反对了it is always guided by the observer's expectations or desires.
是不是应该再带一段来论证这句话呢？

flyingwindUID: 189320

不好意思,我和zhizhi有同样的感觉,以前也说过
看你的文章不是太看的懂
说不好肯定有问题,因为看词语用法感觉不错
但是就是不太舒服,挺玄的感觉
看着看着就很累

flyingwindUID: 189320

不过要是老外欣赏的话,那就是好

可以找个老外看看