ISSUE36 谢谢了，Theo

TheoUID: 2108316

“The greatness of individuals can be decided only by those who live after them, not by their contemporaries. ”



The speaker claims that the greatness of indicviduals can be decided only by those who live after them, not by their contemporaries. Obviously, people are simply not feasible to come to an agreement on this highly controversial issue. In the last analysis, I am inclined to buttress the speaker's point of contention. In my opinion, it is impossible for the contemporaries to decide the greatness of individuals objectivly and uninterestedly.In the following discussion, I will show my evidence to substantiate my view.

To begin with, it is absolutely possible that common people cannot access the essential thing behind the superficial fact. According to the fact on the surface, the common people would judge individual uneaqully, who might be a great person. We need look no further than the history of China to see the truth of my view. Li hongzhang, the premier of the Empire of China (Qing dynasty), is regarded as a betrayer who signed the notorious contract which let Taiwan become Japanese colony. However, the contemporaries only see Li signed that contract, but they did not realize that enve if Li refuse to sign that, someone else had to do that . Even nowadays, some people who donot really probe into the history of War of Jiawu ( 1895 ) which absolutely cannot be read by the peolpe who lived in the contemporary time, still consider Li to be a betrayer. In fact, Li hongzhang is one of the greatest premiers in Chinese history.

Furthermore, based on some biased media which are controlled by government, undoubtably,contemporary people would misunderstand those highly controverssial events and the people involed in them. I have met such problems that I have heared different comment on the student's compaing in 1989 of China according to domestic media and other country's media. Frankly speaking, I doubt I can make an objective judgement on those students who gave their young lives in that event. One official said (and I paraphrase):"We donot have right of commending this issue,and let's give our descedent the responsibility."

In short, it is very likely that people will never be able to arrive at the same conclusion on this debatable point of view, because of their different interest and realm of study. Nevertheless, my discussion above will certainly contribute to thorough understanding of the problem that whether the contemporaries can decide the greatness of controversial individuals.

[ Last edited by staralways on 2005-8-12 at 22:21 ]

ladzhUID: 2105328

ISSUE 36 谢谢了，Theo“The greatness of individuals can be decided only by those who live after them, not by their contemporaries. ”
     The speaker claims that the greatness of indicviduals can be decided only by those who live after them, not by their contemporaries. Obviously, people are simply not feasible to come to an agreement on this highly controversial issue. In the last analysis, I am inclined to buttress the speaker's point of contention. In my opinion, it is impossible for the contemporaries to decide the greatness of individuals objectively(objectively) and uninterestedly(disinterestedly).In the following discussion, I will show my evidence to substantiate my view.(观点明确，但是最好在开头列出立场中的论点，如在哪个领域中)
  To begin with, it is absolutely possible that common people cannot access the essential thing behind the superficial fact（最好是具体指出哪些是essential thing ,superficial facts,要让人明白主题句说了什么） According to the fact on the surface, the common people would judge individual uneaqulaly, who might be a great person. We need look no further than the history of China to see the truth of my view. Li hongzhang, the premier of the Empire of China (Qing dynasty), is regarded as a betrayer who signed the notorious contract which let Taiwan become Japanese colony. However, the contemporaries only see Li signed that contract, but they did not realize that enve(even) if Li refuse/refused to sign that, someone else (would have) had to do that . Even nowadays, some people who donot/do not really probe into the history of War of Jiawu ( 1895 ) which absolutely cannot be read by the people/people who lived in the contemporary time, still consider Li to be a betrayer. In fact, Li hongzhang is one of the greatest premiers in Chinese history.(最好有段内总结句呀)
  Furthermore, based on some biased media which are controlled by government, undoubtably, contemporary people would misunderstand those highly controverssi／controversial events and the people involed/involved in them. I have met such problems that I have heared different comment on the student's compaing/compaign in 1989 of China according to domestic media and other country's media. Frankly speaking, I doubt I can make an objective judgement on those students who gave their young lives in that event. One official said (and I paraphrase):"We donot have right of commending this issue, and let's give our descedent/decedent the responsibility."(最好是考虑一下换个例子，太敏感了吧？)   In short, it is very likely that people will never be able to arrive at the same conclusion on this debatable point of view, because of their different interests and realms of study. Nevertheless, my discussion above will certainly contribute to thorough understanding of the problem that whether the contemporaries can decide the greatness of controversial individuals.   赞成的：句式整齐，结构清晰，很有潜力呀：）   建议：每一段有明确的段首句和段内总结句；围绕一个中心论点，上下文之间最好有自然过渡，而且内容都服从开头第一段。

[ Last edited by ladzh on 2005-8-12 at 22:23 ]

TheoUID: 2108316

先谢谢一下
段内总结是指在每段尾应该有一句总结得话吗？能不能给个建议
上下文过渡，是两个理由段之间吗？给个建议，谢谢哦，呵呵

ladzhUID: 2105328

对，段内总结句就是指每段段尾的总结句；概括你的这段内容；
上下文过渡，就是指你的两个理由段之间，主题句应该意思连贯，上下保持一致，都为了说明第一段的内容。

TheoUID: 2108316

上下文过渡，咋写呢？给个例子吧，感谢了

DanielTyanUID: 2114345

语言上的毛病前面一位兄弟已经说过了，我不再重复，这里说说你论证过程的几个比价明显缺点——第一，你是写给我们看的，不是写给ETS看的；第二，你的论述缺乏深度和力度；第三，论据的采用尚待提高。
The speaker claims that the greatness of indicviduals can be decided only by those who live after them, not by their contemporaries. Obviously, people are simply not feasible to come to an agreement on this highly controversial issue. In the last analysis, I am inclined to buttress the speaker's point of contention. In my opinion, it is impossible for the contemporaries to decide the greatness of individuals objectivly and uninterestedly.In the following discussion, I will show my evidence to substantiate my view.

To begin with, it is absolutely possible that common people cannot access the essential thing behind the superficial fact. According to the fact on the surface, the common people would judge individual uneaqully, who might be a great person. We need look no further than the history of China to see the truth of my view. Li hongzhang, the premier of the Empire of China (Qing dynasty), is regarded as a betrayer who signed the notorious contract which let Taiwan become Japanese colony. However, the contemporaries only see Li signed that contract, but they did not realize that enve if Li refuse to sign that, someone else had to do that . Even nowadays, some people who donot really probe into the history of War of Jiawu ( 1895 ) which absolutely cannot be read by the peolpe who lived in the contemporary time, still consider Li to be a betrayer. In fact, Li hongzhang is one of the greatest premiers in Chinese history.
兄弟，你的例子最好符合国际习惯，不要乱翻译，比如我们称甲午战争，在美国人的历史书里面叫”the first Sino-Japanese war（1894－1895）”，中堂签订的是“treaty of Shimonoseki”——下关条约！其实你的这个例子不是很确切，为什么后人认为李洪章是个有价值和作用的人？就因为他去签订了“其他人也可能去签订”的耻辱条约么？你认为他是好人，你用什么来支持你的论点？

Furthermore, based on some biased media which are controlled by government, undoubtably,contemporary people would misunderstand those highly controverssial events and the people involed in them. I have met such problems that I have heared different comment on the student's compaing in 1989 of China according to domestic media and other country's media. Frankly speaking, I doubt I can make an objective judgement on those students who gave their young lives in that event. One official said (and I paraphrase):"We donot have right of commending this issue,and let's give our descedent the responsibility."
同样的道理，你这段中使用这个例子也不能说明你的论点，那个运动在国外叫“1989 Tiananmen Square Protest”，其实质是所谓的“seek for pro-democracy”，“protest against the totalitarian”，你怎么从“自己都不能做出一个公正客观的评价”推出你的论点？？请一定要在文中点出来！

In short, it is very likely that people will never be able to arrive at the same conclusion on this debatable point of view, because of their different interest and realm of study. Nevertheless, my discussion above will certainly contribute to thorough understanding of the problem that whether the contemporaries can decide the greatness of controversial individuals.——你的结尾就是在放风筝了，文章中论述了同时代的人不能正确评价一个人（且没有说明理由），后文却提出“different interest and realm of study"这些前文踪影都看不到的东西，你不用跑那么远吧。

TheoUID: 2108316

看来必须猛补国外的例子了。
我的观点是： In my opinion, it is impossible for the contemporaries to decide the greatness of individuals objectivly and uninterestedly.（当代的人无法客观地公正地评价前人的功绩）  支持其的分论点为：
第一， it is absolutely possible that common people cannot access the essential thing behind the superficial fact.According to the fact on the surface, the common people would judge individual uneaqully, who might be a great person.（由于普通人   by the way请问可用common people吗？   无法接触到本质的东西，所以他们的评论是肤浅的）
第二，Furthermore, based on some biased media which are controlled by government, undoubtably,contemporary people would misunderstand those highly controverssial events and the people involed in them. （受控制的媒体会误导民众 by the way 是citizen吗？）当然也包括我，所以当代人也不能正确评价
结尾我想说这个highly controversial 的issue无法得到一个统一观点，但是我的一些论述可以让人们意识到，在某种程度上，当代人无法正确的评论人的功绩

又写了一篇有tianmen的文章，且都是中国的两个例子，请问是不是不行啊？？？请DanielTyan 指教！！