同主题写作之144【艺术家和批评家间的爱恨情仇】

StefanaUID: 2143510

TOPIC: ISSUE144 - "It is the artist, not the critic,* who gives society something of lasting value."

*a person who evaluates works of art, such as novels, films, music, paintings, etc.
WORDS: 582


TIME: 00:41:10

DATE: 2009/3/11 18:48:39

The speaker asserts that it is the artist, not the critic, who gives society something of lasting value. I agree with that the artist surly bring us something has ever-lasting value, but we can not overlook the value which the critic gives us.

I concede that the art works are the outcomes of artists’ creations and imaginations, and the value of these works are born to have. To this matter, the art works should not be limited to the old and established parameters, and it also should be beyond the valuation system of the era which the artist born. Despite of the valuation which the temporary time gave to the artist, something of the art works is ever-lasting. Consider the <Wuthering Heights>as an example, even though the people in the 19th century did not treasure Emily Bronte's this novel as great as her sister Charlotte Bronte's <Jane Eyre>,but the people afterwards gave her the highest evaluation as what she deserved to. Another example is Jackson Pollock, the symbol of the American painting makers after World War 2.At first he was interested in "passionate and mysterious" paintings with "aggressive, sexual, and creatural" characteristics which is called supper realism works but did not accept by most people, and after 47, he made a big decision in his career and then he created another kind of painting, which is called--"drop painting", to illustrate the feelings in specialized situation. Then this action brought him to a new kind of art world which made him immortal and let others restarted to treasure his paintings before.

I turn my next to the critic value to the society. When a person has no knowledge about one specific art form, it seems possible for him or her to into the wonderful world that the artist created, but the critic gives them paths to. Even though we always appreciate an art work at the first sight we see it, but if we can get enough backgrounds knowledge of this art work, we will be surly to understand the meanings that the artist wants to tell. However, while the critic brings some advantages to the society, it also some disadvantages to the art world. Consider the famous painter--Vincent Van Gogh. We all know that in the period of time that no one can understand the abstract paintings which are created by Vincent; his life seemed to be as hard as pushed down by the sunflowers. But the critic still used the old and established patterns to value his creations. If some of the critics could find something valuable in Vincent's paintings, he would surly brought more valuable paintings to the society instead of the suicide for that fact that no one brought his works. As we can see, critical judgments sometimes misleaded by the ego, its value are questionable sometimes.

And, comparing the value which is from the artist and the critic, we can easily find the connection between each other. The critic's function is to find something subversion to the world and something could peace the state of mind for people, but the artist is the creation of these values.

In sum, I agree with the speaker that it is the artist, not the critic who gives society something lasting value even though we cannot ignore the value of the critic. The fact is that when the artist created a diverse and colorful world with their creative art works, the critic sometimes creates a path for us to it.

yuyu7yayaUID: 2461700

写在前面：
这位童鞋一看就和偶不是一个等级的。40分钟能完成一篇文章，佩服呢。话说，我那篇写了三天。如果在改的过程中犯了什么原则性错误，请你一定要看在我三天写一篇文章的份上原谅我哈！


红色 不足之处
紫色 有争议，我没能完全理解。也许你是对的
绿色 拼写和语法错误 自己改哈
蓝色 很好瓦

The speaker asserts that it is the artist, not the critic, who gives society something of lasting value. I agree with that the artist surly bring us something has ever-lasting value, but we can not overlook the value which the critic gives us.
I concede that the art works are the outcomes of artists’ creations and imaginations, and the value of these works are born to have. To this matter, the art works should not be limited to the old and established parameters, and it also should be beyond the valuation system of the era which the artist born. Despite of the valuation which the temporary time gave to the artist, something of the art works is ever-lasting.（这里的something 倒底是what thing？） Consider the <Wuthering Heights>as an example, even though the people in the 19th century did not treasure Emily Bronte's this novel as great as her sister Charlotte Bronte's <Jane Eyre>,but the people afterwards gave her the highest evaluation as what she deserved to. Another example is Jackson Pollock, the symbol of the American painting makers after World War 2.At first he was interested in "passionate and mysterious" paintings with "aggressive, sexual, and creatural" characteristics which is called supper realism works but did not accept by most people, and after 47, he made a big decision in his career and then he created another kind of painting, which is called--"drop painting", to illustrate the feelings in specialized situation. Then this action brought him to a new kind of art world which made him immortal and let others restarted to treasure his paintings before.
airtist的价值是超于时代限制的，Artist的艺术价值是天生的。两个例子：呼啸山庄，当代的人不重视，后人重新认定了它的伟大；因着他后来的成就而重视了他从前的作品。如此就能够证明artist对于社会的价值是永恒的吗？这两个例子是如何证明艺术家的艺术作品给社会带来了持久的冲击力或影响？艺术家和社会的关系是应该被探讨的重点，尤其是艺术家对社会的影响力。证明其艺术价值的持久性不等于证明了艺术家对社会影响力的持久性吧……你应该举一些艺术家的创作给人类带来了巨大的思想进步的例子。
I turn my next to the critic value to the society. When a person has no knowledge about one specific art form, it seems possible（应该是impossible吧）
for him or her to into the wonderful world that the artist created, but the critic gives them paths to. 批评家是艺术家与大众之间沟通的桥梁。Even though we always appreciate an art work at the first sight we see it, but if we can get enough backgrounds knowledge of this art work, we will be surly to understand the meanings that the artist wants to tell.（这个……不一定吧，每个人的领悟能力是有不同的，即使大家都面对同样的背景资料） However, while the critic brings some advantages to the society, it also some disadvantages to the art world. Consider the famous painter--Vincent Van Gogh. We all know that in the period of time that no one can understand the abstract paintings which are created by Vincent; his life seemed to be as hard as pushed down by the sunflowers. But the critic still used the old and established patterns to value his creations. If some of the critics could find something valuable in Vincent's paintings, he would surly brought more valuable paintings to the society instead of the suicide for that fact that no one brought his works.（关于梵高为何自杀，学术界向来争议很大，建议去百度一下。） As we can see, critical judgments sometimes misleaded by the ego, its value are questionable sometimes.
这段最后的重点感觉是放在批评家的负面作用上了哦。但是在第一段中不是说不可忽略批评家的作用么？不是矛盾了么？是不是应该在本段结尾处加个总结性的句子，把重心扭转到不可忽略批评家作用上去？
And, comparing the value which is from the artist and the critic, we can easily find the connection between each other. The critic's function is to find something subversion to the world and something could peace the state of mind for people, but the artist is the creation of these values.批评家的作用是to find something颠覆世界？没看懂。能给解释一下吗？
In sum, I agree with the speaker that it is the artist, not the critic who gives society something lasting value even though we cannot ignore the value of the critic. The fact is that when the artist created a diverse and colorful world with their creative art works, the critic sometimes creates a path for us to it.这个结尾我喜欢!

1本文的论点，肯定艺术家对于社会的贡献，但是也不可忽略批评家对社会的贡献。但我觉得艺术家那一块的论证不是很和谐的哦。

2我感觉对于例子的阐释有些欠缺，具体的都在文章中说了。

3我觉得你很强了，能在40分钟内写出没什么拼写错误和语法错误的文章。而且还很完整。佩服佩服！

gtfish612UID: 2419024

楼上分析的太棒了。非常赞同。

我的意见：
1.开头应该进一步点出艺术家和评论家的互补关系。而不仅仅说到不可忽略评论家。因为作者的观点也没有说要忽略评论家，说的是评论家没有对社会奉献长远价值。

2. 二段同楼上意见。而且个人认为和主题相同的部分不用花最大篇幅来详述。要重点讲自己独特的观点。这篇开头就说我不同意主题的观点那就要重点论述为什么不同意。为什么批评家也有长远价值。上来就看到长篇的论述艺术家就是好就是棒就感觉有凑字数的嫌疑。

关于艺术家贡献长远价值我想了两个例子：1）米开朗基罗Michelangelo 的大卫雕像  David is a masterpiece of Renaissance sculpture sculpted by Michelangelo。而且当初这个裸体像饱受争议。还被围个遮羞布。当然这段就先写写这雕像对文艺复兴的深远影响。到了下面说批评家的作用再说遮羞布的事。2）艾菲尔铁塔。是巴黎的代表啥的。建筑家应该也算艺术家吧。

3. 如果顺着我的例子第三段就让步说有了评论家对社会的长远意义。对艺术品的评论成就了艺术。楼上说的很对不能批判评论家，说他们不好这样就跑离主题了。我们的主题是说批评家也好。说说大卫雕像受评论后引起大家重视。然后就成代表作。开启文艺复兴啥的。艾菲尔铁塔也是开始被狂骂。还引起抗议浪潮啥的。还有人说必倒塌。反而成为焦点。现在成标志了。最后要总结说正是因为评论家对作品的评论才引起人们对新的艺术的关注，才使新的作品为人们所了解，帮助他们达到今日的成就。如果这个世界没有评论家，许多伟大的作品也许就不会被发现。所以评论家对社会也是有长远意义的。两个例子可以一详一略。避免啰嗦。我个人比较喜欢同样的例子来说两个观点。因为我们的主题就是艺术家和评论家互相补充的。这样比说一堆例子说艺术家多好，再说一堆评论家多好要更有说服力。

4。 进一步艺术家和评论家是互不能少，互为补充。感觉楼主的四段内容太少。这说他们俩关系才是全文的重点反而说的少了。可能是没时间了。没有艺术家的创作没有流芳千古的作品。没有评论家社会无法认识到艺术真正的价值。然后在说一个评论家纯帮助艺术家的例子，这时突出是评论家而不是批评家。比如红楼梦。正是因为那么多评论家多年的研究。才能有那么深的价值。要不谁能看出其中那多含义。还搞出了个红学。甚至最后一部都是评论家写的。（怀疑老外知道红楼不，可以换成啥更好例子。大家集思广益哈）

5. 我也是觉得这个结尾很棒。简单还直达主题。

总之楼主的语言完全没问题了。就是好好研究文章布局推理就OK了。万分羡慕的说。
个人意见觉得要文章句句都是有用意都是在为自己的主题服务是好。不要为了写多而写。不过在规定时间里能写这样已是神人了。大家互勉楼主早日由神升佛。

另外查点不知道的事维基百科挺好。还能看中英文的。省的再去查词。

既然想了半天。就写了下。希望大仙大神多提意见。来批吧。
昨天听了下修锐的课觉得自己以前的写法就是在堆砌例子。没啥论证。现在重写下。埃菲尔铁塔的例子删掉了。

Issue. 144. It is the artist, not the critic, who gives society something of lasting value. (647)

The statement argues that the long term contribution of the critics can not compare with that of the artist. However, without the comment of the critic, human being would not have achieved such great accomplishment in art. And plenty of art works may lose the opportunity to be recognized by public. Therefore, I deem that critic is the supplement of artist, and they help the artist gain success in some degrees. (71)


Obviously, artists devote to the art and finish a significant accomplishment.
All the great artworks such as the novels, paintings, and films are accomplished by the artists. And the artwork is the symbol of culture and value system which we all know exerts a long term influence on later generation. Thus, artist supports the lasting value to our society. For example, Michelangelo created the masterpiece David which is a nude marble sculpture. David is the excellent example of the contrapposto style of posing the human form.
Otherwise, it has become one of the most recognized pieces of Renaissance Sculpture and admits as a symbol of both strength and youthful human beauty. Undoubtedly, the lasting value of David is outstanding and unparalleled. Without the creation of Michelangelo, posterity can not realize the ideology of the Renaissance though this figure and critic serves no purpose.
(143)

However, critics also contribute to the lasing value of art. Majority of the artworks have been valued by the critic and some of the comment are oppose and criticize the works. Whereas, the opponent opinion attract attention and launch drastic discuss about this work. On the other hand, artist could regard the problems which table by the opponents and consummate their works.
Thus, the comments from the critics help artic get the zenith of the art and help artwork devote the lasting value to our society. Returning to the Michelangelo’ David mentioned above, as we all known, this masterpiece was severely criticized in that period. Public was shocked by a stark naked figure. The opponent even has added a garland of gilded copper to hide the naked figure's private parts. Nevertheless, since the controversy of this unique work, public and artists became ponder about this naked figure and open up comprehensives discussion about this new genre of sculpture. Thus, the value of this figure has been recognized and arts start to pursue the beauty of the human body. Therefore, the opinion from the critic helps David providing the lasting value to our society. (193)
Otherwise, the comment from the critic is the supplement of the artwork. Parts of the critics support several valuable suggestions or commentaries for the artworks. And it is the indispensable component of the art. Later generations not only research the artwork itself, but also regard the comment from the critic. For instance, the success of the Dream of the Red Chamber, the highest peak of the classical Chinese novels, can not depart from the contribution from the critic. Since this novel is not complete, a deluge of litterateurs research the signification of the remaining part and imagine the lost part. From issuing this novel, hundreds of related publications have given various commentary and comment on it. Even one of the critics who named Gao E wrote a continuation for this novel and is accepted widely. Moreover，since abundance people engage in researching this novel, a number of enthusiasts consist a study ,someone called it Redolgy, in order to research it special. Thus, to this novel, it is not only written by the original author, but also the achievement of the continuation author and critic. (185)

In conclusion, the critic and artist are inter-dependent. Artist create the work and critic help public recognize the deep value of the masterpiece. Even, the comment of the critic is the indispensable component of the artwork. Hence, both the artist and critic contribute to the lasting value of the art.
(50)

米饭袜子UID: 2532172

2# yuyu7yaya
话说偶刚还在犹豫，这篇还 某写额。。。。。。看到JJ积极向上，偶不敢堕落~

StefanaUID: 2143510

谢谢楼上的童鞋们..不好意思我不了解这个互改顺序...刚看到不好意思.
童鞋们的文章小女子待会拜读去叶~今晚前一定上传~

StefanaUID: 2143510

2# yuyu7yaya

The critic's function is to find something subversion to the world and something could peace the state of mind for people, but the artist is the creation of these values.批评家的作用是to find something颠覆世界？没看懂。能给解释一下吗？

等我斟酌下,大概这句话这样好些.
The critic's function is to find the different ingredients in the artist's works, which involves something subversion to the world and something to calm down the state of mind of people, however, the artist is the creator of these values.
这句话我想表达的意思是,批评家的作用就是发现一些作品可以颠覆世界,另一些作品可以抚慰人们的心灵,但是这样的价值,却是由艺术家创造的.

可能我没有表述清楚,不好意思,这样子可以理解了吧,应该没有别的问题了吧..

另外,我自己发现两处词语用法错误.
1, peace不可以作动词,我误用作动词.
2, creator 比 creation 好.

StefanaUID: 2143510

2# yuyu7yaya

but if we can get enough backgrounds knowledge of this art work, we will be surly to understand the meanings that the artist wants to tell.（这个……不一定吧，每个人的领悟能力是有不同的，即使大家都面对同样的背景资料）

[fly]
关于这一点,我想表达的意思是,如果我们能得到更多的背景知识,我们就能更好的理解艺术家想表达的东西.
可能我说的又不是很完整..让我想想..

but if we can get more backgrounds knowledge of this art work, we will surely be more easier to understand the meanings that the artist wants to tell.

这样,是不是可以不涉及到你提到的那个每个人领悟能力不同的问题?
[/fly]

StefanaUID: 2143510

3# gtfish612

谢谢你的建议,我觉得你俩说得都有道理,我会再仔细斟酌的.
第二段,确实说丢了点.嗯,我也开始觉得不大对劲了.

WIKI..可惜我这里打不开,我就能百度知道.

另外,哎,我不是神啊.这个文章的提纲我事先写好了,所以才40分钟写完了.

yuyu7yayaUID: 2461700

7# Stefana
我觉得这样说更好唉，更严谨！

StefanaUID: 2143510

3# gtfish612

4。 进一步艺术家和评论家是互不能少，互为补充。感觉楼主的四段内容太少。这说他们俩关系才是全文的重点反而说的少了。可能是没时间了。没有艺术家的创作没有流芳千古的作品。没有评论家社会无法认识到艺术真正的价值。然后在说一个评论家纯帮助艺术家的例子，这时突出是评论家而不是批评家。比如红楼梦。正是因为那么多评论家多年的研究。才能有那么深的价值。要不谁能看出其中那多含义。还搞出了个红学。甚至最后一部都是评论家写的。（怀疑老外知道红楼不，可以换成啥更好例子。大家集思广益哈）



关于这一点,不是没有时间,是我实在不晓得还能写西什么...
我的脑袋里没有那么多的例子..哭了.

要找到评论家带领大众理解作品的例子就可以了?
比如我说的是..The critic's function is to find the different ingredients in the artist's works, which involves something subversion to the world and something to calm down the state of mind of people, however, the artist is the creator of these values. ..

是不是就是找一个说明评论学家带我们找到艺术作品的使人平静和颠覆世界的不同方面就好了？
有什么样的例子啊．．
我想．．我想．．．

gtfish612UID: 2419024

是啊。这想个恰当的例子可真是难啊。吃饭睡觉都在想，想啊想。感觉写篇好的issue思路和生个孩子差不多。 而且这要是没做好充分准备的题目现场想的名人也不会拼写啥的。有很多例子脑子里只是有个印象具体怎么回事还得上网查。

大家帮忙改改三楼我那篇哈。

StefanaUID: 2143510

11# gtfish612

今儿太晚,明儿帮你看.

米饭袜子UID: 2532172

偶严重迟到，认错先，自PIA先！

米饭袜子UID: 2532172

The speaker asserts that it is the artist, not the critic, who gives society something of lasting value. I agree with that the artist surly bring us something has ever-lasting value, but we can not overlook the value which the critic gives us.（简洁明了亮明观点）

I concede that the art works are the outcomes of artists’ creations and imaginations, and the value of these works are born to have. To this matter, the art works should not be limited to the old and established parameters, and it also should be beyond the valuation system of the era which the artist born. Despite of the valuation which the temporary time gave to the artist, something of the art works is ever-lasting.（见下）
Consider the <Wuthering Heights>as an example, even though the people in the 19th century did not treasure Emily Bronte's this novel as great as her sister Charlotte Bronte's <Jane Eyre>,but the people afterwards gave her the highest evaluation as what she deserved to. Another example is Jackson Pollock, the symbol of the American painting makers after World War 2.At first he was interested in "passionate and mysterious" paintings with "aggressive, sexual, and creatural" characteristics which is called supper realism works but did not accept by most people, and after 47, he made a big decision in his career and then he created another kind of painting, which is called--"drop painting", to illustrate the feelings in specialized situation. Then this action brought him to a new kind of art world which made him immortal and let others restarted to treasure his paintings before.
（晕了。。。这一段是要说明虾米意思？是偶标红色的那一句灭？可是两个例子都在说明一个开始不被认可的艺术家历经种种又如何被认可推崇，并没体现出lasting value啊，尤其是题目中的lasting value of society。再者，对例子的叙述个人感觉有点多，只叙述对支持论点有用的部分即可~）
I turn my next to the critic（’s） value to the（千万别加the哇） society（据这句话分析，JJ上一段说的是artist’s value to society 咯.上一段的描述并没有表现出来呀~）
When a person has no knowledge about one specific art form, it seems possible for him or her to (?)into the wonderful world that the artist created, but the critic gives them paths to(偶不知道这个to是不是要加哦，怀疑~JJ指点下啦~). Even though we always appreciate an art work at the first sight we see it, but if we can get enough backgrounds knowledge of this art work, we will be surly to understand the meanings that the artist wants to tell. However, while the critic brings some advantages to the（X莫加the！！） society, it also（？） some disadvantages to the art world. Consider the famous painter--Vincent Van Gogh. We all know that in the period of time that no one can understand the abstract paintings which are created by Vincent; his life seemed to be as hard as pushed down by the sunflowers. But the critic still used the old and established patterns to value his creations. If some of the critics could find something valuable in Vincent's paintings, he would surly brought more valuable paintings to the society instead of the suicide for that fact that no one brought（bought） his works. As we can see, critical judgments sometimes misleaded by the ego, its value are questionable sometimes.（额。。。。话说偶个人举着能称得上value的东西应该都是正面的吧，用influence表达是不是更好捏？）
And, comparing the value which is from the artist and the critic, we can easily find the connection between each other. The critic's function is to find something subversion to the world and something could peace the state of mind for people（哪里体现了？）, but the artist is the creation of these values.
In sum, I agree with the speaker that it is the artist, not the critic who gives society something lasting value（天！我看JJ的首段还以为你嘞观点是中立！！）
even though we cannot ignore the value of the critic.
（既然按你的意思AC都有各自的value，那重点就应该是是否是lasting，而这点在你的文章中木有任何迹象）The fact is that when the artist created a diverse and colorful world with their creative art works, the critic sometimes creates a path for us to it（费解的结语，想说明啥捏？MS跟你要证明的木有关系）.
SUMMARY:刚开始看以为JJ要反驳题目，看到最后竟然是支持，先汗一哈。。。
就算是支持，第三段MS应该说明C为啥不能give lasting value吧，而不是说“C也有贡献是我们不能忽略的”？？。通过这点来证明你嘞观点实在单薄而且小不合逻辑啊。。。。。第三段俨然象在写143额。。。。。。。
还有最重要的一点偶认为，应该先给lasting value下个定义！！
偶很弱小，纯粹学习态度~

米饭袜子UID: 2532172

任何问题JJ尽管揪我出来问，使劲揪 ~