分类讨论：学习题材 第三组 14 34 80 106 158 Taking courses，science arts or

imongUID??140258

预先公布明天的主题： TECHNIQUE / APPROACH IN LEARNING

好，今天的主题是SCIENCE ARTS ETHICS, TAKING COURSES，一共有5个题目：

14. "It is necessary for everyone to read poetry, novels, mythology and other types of imaginative literature."

34. "Instead of requiring students to take courses in a variety of disciplines—that is, courses ranging from the arts and the humanities to the physical and biological sciences—colleges and universities should allow students to enroll only in those courses that will help prepare them for jobs in their chosen fields. Such concentration is necessary in today's increasingly work-oriented society."

80. "All students should be required to take courses in the sciences, even if they have no interest in science."

106. "All students should be required to take at least one course in ethics, even if taking the course means a decreased emphasis on academic subjects."

158. The arts (music, dance, visual arts, etc.) are vitally important to students' education and should therefore receive as much emphasis as mathematics, science, reading and other mainstream subjects."

总结一下：主要观点缩水一下就是必须学SCIENCE的，必须学ETHICS的，有必要学ART的，ART暴重要应当得到提升地位的，然后只钻专业不管其它的。基本上各个方向差不多都有一些。

这次我就不起引子了，直接开始。看看就今天这个topic是不是能出来很多精彩的idea...:D

poohUID??146994

同意楼上106的看法，教授ethics要考虑的问题很多
首先是应该教授什么ethics,应该教授主流文化的ethics,忽略非主流文化的？或者应该开很多不同的ethics课程让学生选修？topic说take at least one course in ethics，如果学生选其中一门，会不会造成ethics上的差异？而且ethics也是在不断变化的，教授ethics会不会束缚学生的思想？

至于even if taking the course means a decreased emphasis on academic subjects. 当然是最好不要decrease emphasis，如果有更好的途径解决，可以不必采取授课的形式：
比如，家庭和community承担起教育ethics的责任
      学校也可以请道德高尚的名人来讲座，用生动的事实说话效果可能好的多。

happymichelleUID??154082

关于106
106. "All students should be required to take at least one course in ethics, even if taking the course means a decreased emphasis on academic subjects."
主要持赞成的态度
首先，ethics必要。因为它关系到如何使用technology的问题，如现在炒得比较热的cloning, abortion, biochemical weapon问题等等，要维护和平与文明，sustainable development,  ethics方面的教育都不容忽视
但是，把ethics作为course有一些问题：比如应该教授什么课？会不会给学生增加负担？通过这些ethics课程，学生们到底有多少收获？这些都有待于进一步探讨

还有别的想法么？

happymichelleUID??154082

一下引用斑竹
“2. However, the bottom line never to be superceded（纳闷ing，既然是BOTTOM lime为什么是SUPERcede？） is the emphasis on academic subjects and its absolute priority over any other issue. One must realize that it is one's knowledge in major subject, not the knowledge in ethics, that ensure one's success in certain field. Knowledge in ethics can be no more than helpful and it'll have nowhere to exert effort on if the knowledge in one's major is poor. In another word, the dominance of knowledge in academia can never be challenged by the understandings in ethics, an understanding that is always auxiliary. For example, （把上面的话具体化一些，总之就是ethic的作用总是在academic的基础上才得以发挥，后者是基本，当然不能sacrifice）

怎么样，够反动吧？ 用词上不是很考究啊，随手写的。
这个提纲里面我比较注意的是第一部分是helpful 和advisory，后面出来的是bottom line和basis, dominance。应该说层次和“等级”的把握还是比较严格的。如果第二段再加上concrete example就更好了，可惜就是不太好找...夸夸其谈ethics的一堆饭桶恐怕要上溯到春秋战国时代去找一找，而且还得和student有关系...可不可以说古代文人立身立了半天什么学问都没有？”

关于这个ethics，我认为有必要和 morality来区分
“总之就是ethic的作用总是在academic的基础上才得以发挥，后者是基本，当然不能sacrifice”
不理解，我觉得ethics即伦理包括很广，比如说尊老爱幼，孝敬父母。这怎么能说在academic基础上发挥的呢？

我个人的观点，望指正：）

happymichelleUID??154082

最初由 l-sunshine 发布
[B]还是80。
题中science也不非得是自然科学，象艺术理论不也行吗？单靠长期摸索，追求否定再追求再否定，不仅付出了精力与时间，而且意志不坚定的八成就挂了--这里是将scien..

以下省略...... [/B]

对于这个science 的界定问题，大家有必要讨论一下啊
我认为是理科类的科学，我觉得艺术理论不应该算是science吧
这只是我个人的想法
：）

happymichelleUID??154082

关于80
80. "All students should be required to take courses in the sciences, even if they have no interest in science."
这个我想应该从教育不同程度说
在low level education,阶段，所有的学生都要学basic science knowledge
原因就是：science已经不局限在一个profession里了，在生活中没有science knowledge就无法生存。而且，只有通过学校这种系统的学习science才能满足这个社会的要求
此外，对于学习音乐，研究艺术，写作的人来说，science也有帮助
eg:米开朗琪罗作为sculptors  也了解很多 physics and archaeology
     writers may inspired from science比如凡尔纳写海底两万里“two millmiles undersea"?
     singers use physiology to protect their sound....
但是，对于high-level education,就应当有所侧重，允许学生们选择。毕竟每个人生下来兴趣不同，资质也不同。给他们适当的选择空间个有利develop their personality and find the significane of their life to themselves and to others
对于学校来说，最好能把science课程分成从难到易几个档次，够学生们选择。如喜欢艺术的同学就可选择较容易的science课程

请问：米开朗琪罗          用英文怎么说
      凡尔纳
      海底两万里

：）3q3q

happymichelleUID??154082

关于34，可以参考90题
主要涉及的课程应丰富多彩，还是应针对未来的工作（90题是兴趣vs工作）
这个问题我认为应两边兼顾
而且，学习这两类课程不是矛盾的，如只有在广泛学习个基础课后，才能找出自己的兴趣，并找到自己的就业方向
学校要做的就是keep the balance 问题

以下是我的issue90,写得不好，仅供参考把~
issue90
"College students should be encouraged to pursue subjects that interest them rather than seek programs that promise entry into the job market."
syllabus
1.兴趣是学习最原始、最单纯的动力。因而也是最持久的动力
2.人最为社会中的一员，不能脱离社会，要生存就不得不考虑就业问题。
3.我认为社会上有两类人：一类其工作并不喜欢，不是他的兴趣。另一类比较幸运：他们从事的工作正是他们的兴趣点
对于后一类人，他们是少数的，但又是幸运的。我觉得教育终极目标就应该是让每个人的兴趣都能体现在工作中。而对于学生来说，就是要发掘自己的兴趣爱好，并努力使其与自己的工作一致，或至少有益于自己的工作。这个应该是每个学校所鼓励学生做的


It may be said that rational, industrious, useful human beings are divided into two classes: those whose work is work and whose interest is interest; and secondly, those whose work and interest are one.  Of these, the former are the majority.  But fortuned favored children belong to the second class.  For them, life is a natural harmony, and the working hours are never long enough.  All of us wish to belong to the second class, and in my point of view, that is what the college students should be encouraged.

It may be the human nature that we are born with our interests, no one teach us the interest, but we are absorbed in something simply because we are interested in it.  As we always said, interest is the mother of learning and  the propeller of learner.  With interest, students could better furnish them with knowledge.  Once you found your way into the subject, you may have also found a world of curiosities.  For example,(例子）
Great interest may not only result in  skill and knowledge, it may also develop into expertise and even creativeness.  Isn't it true that many inventions and discoveries have been made by amateurs and not professionals?  Thus it's essential to encourage college students to pursue their interests.

It is no fault to seek one's interest, but in a realistic perspective, considering other factors like
subsistence, family and society responsibility etc, a well-earning job is also vital for us.  As for a construction worker, who is good at teamwork and cooperation, also, to be more competitive, should seek programs when in college that promise entry into the job market.  Every student will face the situation that choose a career, and it may be one of the most important things in a person's life.  Finding a right one, you will be happy and successful, finding a wrong one, you will not display your talent fully.  So students should take out some of time to think over the problem of choosing occupation, and seek programs that promise entry into the job market due one's own will.

Admittedly, someone may says that the encouragement to the narrowly confined programs for job is to some extent make a dreary commitment to material things.  Yes, I accept it, but no better choice if we want to solve the bread-and-butter problems.  However, one cannot survive without the spiritual enjoyments which make up a more diverse and blithesome life.  How we balance them?  Winston Churchill said " It is no use doing what you like; you have got to like what you do."  And maybe that is the only way to solve the question, if we cannot anyway make our interest and work one thing, we could, at least let our interest attribute to our work and thus will find the work a great pleasure.

No one want to find a job that is boring and feels tired out with a hard week's sweat and effort.  Thus it's our college's duty to teach and encourage our students in a proper way, that is, encouraging the students to pursue their interest while at the same time, make their interests more congruent to the job which they will surely hunt in the future.  

Time :55min
Words:537
有一个例子，没想出来

happymichelleUID??154082

我也来讨论一把：
关于14
主要驳斥点：是否"necessary";是否要"everyone"
肯定的方面  imaginative literature可以开阔视野并且激发想象力exploit the fantacy
                        imagination也是原于现实，因而有助于learn much more experience of life
                        其中的mythology特别易于我们了解一个地域一个民族的风俗习惯
但是，是否要每个人都有必要去读imaginative literature是个人的事情，如果真的不喜欢读，也不用强求

imongUID??140258

:p

不好意思。顺手写的的确不太严谨的说。sorry
我记得的确有“底线”的这个表达，不过看来恐怕真的不是bottom line，回去查一下。

很容易就查出来了：base line
哎，最近晕得不行了~~

mcsweetieUID??153655

你们的分析很精彩。不过有一点我想说，英文中的bottom line和中文里的底线不一样的（如果我没有理解错的话）。bottom line 大多是指商业中的outcome。上次writing teacher指出我也才发现。

imongUID??140258

嗯，聪明。看出我的assumption了。不过不是social development吧，kinda personal thing.

不过如果要反驳这一点的话就不是我的文章里面要包括的内容了~:rolleyes:

imongUID??140258

首先：我的重点不在于at least 多少，而在于even if.我根本不管前面是3，4，5还是n，只要ethic的地盘扩散到了even if 的程度，就不可以。这是我的论点。而支持这个论点的时候，根本不用管at least x，我只要反对掉even if 就可以了。

其次，我本来就是从conditional 的角度出发，完全可以回避“为什么”的问题。如果不impair了自然好啊，问题是原题先找碴的：它这里来了个“even if it means decreased emphasis”，这个帐要算到原题的头上而不应该找我。原题为什么提出来了even if 的部分呢？

got it？

刚才说到的“开一门”是为了解释什么是bottom line
现在说的“at least n”说明了和具体数字没关系

imongUID??140258

的确差异不是一般的大！

我的bottom line是说不能够sacrifice academic subject，如果开"一"门就侵害了这个bottom line的话，那就坚决不开！（for ethics，不是还有daily activity吗？）所谓的priority和dominance，就是从这里来的。

这是从必要性的角度去分析的。分析最小量。

你光看见前面的at least，可是我这里重点在于even if. 也许不是原则性的问题，各自理解也许都可以写下去。

imongUID??140258

单独从上面的论述来讲是不错的，问题在于联系到原题的时候你对science的定义比较怪异，能不能过得来难说。再看看原题你觉得还能把science联系到艺术理论上吗？

那个恐怕是theory了吧？

另外两个must题目里面一个是even if no interest in science，另一个是even if decreased emphasis on academic subjects. 不太一样，因此导出来的结论有可能差老远。

imongUID??140258

106

1. Knowledge in ethics is helpful in one's education and it is advisory to take formal lessons even if we learn such issue from our everyday activity. Systematical and well focused learning can better one's insight in this issue and this engagement is ultimately beneficial to individuals.

2. However, the bottom line never to be superceded（纳闷ing，既然是BOTTOM lime为什么是SUPERcede？） is the emphasis on academic subjects and its absolute priority over any other issue. One must realize that it is one's knowledge in major subject, not the knowledge in ethics, that ensure one's success in certain field. Knowledge in ethics can be no more than helpful and it'll have nowhere to exert effort on if the knowledge in one's major is poor. In another word, the dominance of knowledge in academia can never be challenged by the understandings in ethics, an understanding that is always auxiliary. For example, （把上面的话具体化一些，总之就是ethic的作用总是在academic的基础上才得以发挥，后者是基本，当然不能sacrifice）

怎么样，够反动吧？:D 用词上不是很考究啊，随手写的。
这个提纲里面我比较注意的是第一部分是helpful 和advisory，后面出来的是bottom line和basis, dominance。应该说层次和“等级”的把握还是比较严格的。如果第二段再加上concrete example就更好了，可惜就是不太好找...夸夸其谈ethics的一堆饭桶恐怕要上溯到春秋战国时代去找一找，而且还得和student有关系...可不可以说古代文人立身立了半天什么学问都没有？