[每日一题][ISSUE48][思路积累&讨论][20100712]

ggjyUID: 2706471

提问：这个可能具体是如果达成的？需要哪些条件？
草木也知愁 发表于 2010-7-12 16:10

需要乱 战

ggjyUID: 2706471

这个能和今天这道题目怎么贴近一下呢？
草木也知愁 发表于 2010-7-12 16:30

新的势力的发展成熟，必然挑战旧有阶级。伟人并不是一个人就能达到这样的目标的，而是背后一个阶级的需要，他们的推动。而伟人只是被实践推选出来的一个代表性的人物而已，不是非他不可。

草木也知愁UID: 2487572

新的势力的发展成熟，必然挑战旧有阶级。伟人并不是一个人就能达到这样的目标的，而是背后一个阶级的需要，他们的推动。而伟人只是被实践推选出来的一个代表性的人物而已，不是非他不可。
ggjy 发表于 2010-7-12 16:36

表达的有点绕了，而且“阶级”这个概念不如“群体，group”更容易被rater理解

而且新势力和就是势力之间并不存在必然的敌对关系

ggjyUID: 2706471

表达的有点绕了，而且“阶级”这个概念不如“群体，group”更容易被rater理解

而且新势力和就是势力之间并不存在必然的敌对关系
草木也知愁 发表于 2010-7-12 16:40

我是围绕例子想表达清楚但是貌似越说越糊。。。
对了，想的时候是先有思路再有例子还是先例子再思路？

fredliouUID: 2540087

Ideas that welcome comments, criticisms, and whatever...

Social transition represented by groups of people constitutes significant forces to bring about civil desire for change or historical trends but notable political or societal figures are often the catalysts for changes in brewing.

1. Ordinary identity groups produce the desires and social carrying capacities for historical changes. Millions of those people whose name might never be widely known help to produce the historic regime that calls for innovations, changes and revolution. Instances might include ## Square#Incident, advocacy for sustainable development in the face of climate change, and Obama-voters who envision substantial overhauls by new leadership.

2. Political or societal figures jump into the picture by catalysing those changes in brewing and even push civil forces to gain momentum. Having superior power far more than ordinary civilians, those figures are able to initiate social revolution for common good and equally are potent to reduce human society into humanitarian nightmares. Instances might include: President Nixon to break the ice diplomatically with China, terrorist extremists like Al Qaeda leaderships, notorious Hitler, and so forth. Those people who agitate and bear more public attention are making historical events possible with the power not comparable by ordinary civil groups. Their stories and deeds offer more materials for academic historical studies.

3. Social transitional forces represented by ordinary identity groups and powerful political or societal leaders are the two forces that are interdependent in terms of bringing historic events into reality. While the former constitutes the social framework for historic events to happen, it is also evident that famous figures are often hastening the process.

草木也知愁UID: 2487572

我是围绕例子想表达清楚但是貌似越说越糊。。。
对了，想的时候是先有思路再有例子还是先例子再思路？
ggjy 发表于 2010-7-12 16:44

两个相辅相成 灵感能帮你找例子 例子能提供给你灵感 不过追根溯源的话 你先要在long long time ago做了信息摄入 现在才可以作为idea展现出来

草木也知愁UID: 2487572

Ordinary identity groups produce the desires and social carrying capacities for historical changes. Millions of those people whose name might never be widely known help to produce the historic regime that calls for innovations, changes and revolution. Instances might include ## Square#Incident, advocacy for sustainable development in the face of climate change, and Obama-voters who envision substantial overhauls by new leadership.
fredliou 发表于 2010-7-12 17:21

二者之间的关系如何

草木也知愁UID: 2487572

Political or societal figures jump into the picture by catalysing those changes in brewing and even push civil forces to gain momentum. Having superior power far more than ordinary civilians, those figures are able to initiate social revolution for common good and equally are potent to reduce human society into humanitarian nightmares. Instances might include: President Nixon to break the ice diplomatically with China, terrorist extremists like Al Qaeda leaderships, notorious Hitler, and so forth. Those people who agitate and bear more public attention are making historical events possible with the power not comparable by ordinary civil groups. Their stories and deeds offer more materials for academic historical studies.
fredliou 发表于 2010-7-12 17:21

the "superior power" and "potent" are pretty good points

草木也知愁UID: 2487572

Social transitional forces represented by ordinary identity groups and powerful political or societal leaders are the two forces that are interdependent in terms of bringing historic events into reality. While the former constitutes the social framework for historic events to happen, it is also evident that famous figures are often hastening the process.
fredliou 发表于 2010-7-12 17:21

the key word "interdependent " is excellent!

涉及到 "The study of history places too much emphasis" 部分如何衔接一下呢？

zhangxiaohang1UID: 2705669

那两种情况对于本题来说，有什么不同之处呢？
草木也知愁 发表于 2010-7-12 16:12

自上而下，就更突出个人，统治阶层，而不是广大人民。
而自下而上，更主要是人民的推动作用咯！：）

谦行天下UID: 2797557

提问：想要做出某些“历史事件和历史趋势”，需要满足那些基本条件？
草木也知愁 发表于 2010-7-12 11:47

我认为：
1、社会矛盾出现，有问题需要解决
2、有优秀领导人/科学家的应运而生
3、运动扩大/发明推广

lingli_xiaoaiUID: 172506

我觉得诚然历史上很多重大事件的发生，没有人民的参与是不可能的。但是参与和被历史铭记是有本质的区别的。参与的人是被动的。他们只有愿望，却不知道怎么达成自己的愿望。
需要famous few的领导。那些出头的英雄，比平常的人需要承担更多的压力，因为是他们带领，策划，领导了历史世界的发生。很多参与的普通人都是在这种号召力下参与的。比如毛泽东领导的战争抗日和内战。如果说没有他，贫苦人民即使要反抗，也就是在打个地主，不会变成一种有规模和成功的运动。这种作用是不可取代的。给再多的emphasis也不为过。

被forgeten的group被遗忘是有理由的。人太多，不可能被记录。另外，作为每个个人来说，做出的贡献相对很小。但是他们也曾经作为一个集体被记录，比如黄巾军 or 解放军 虽然你不知道解放军的一个小兵叫什么名字，但是他们这个集体是被历史铭记的。

诚然一个运动中，没有毛泽东，可能有朱xx，或者王xx，毛xx只是那时候恰好出来的xx，但是这个xx是不可取代的。没什么运动可以只靠group没有leader成功。leader作为个人被历史铭记，group作为一个集体被历史铭记是很正常的。让group里面做出贡献的每个人被历史铭记才是irrational的

ROse_MaryUID: 2790464

我觉得首先要有发起者，发起一件事，其次要有拥护者支持，共同推动这件事的发展。
agnes2010 发表于 2010-7-12 15:09

同意agnes的~

人民群众在历史潮流起决定性作用，评价历史人物的时候不能夸大他们的决定作用，历史是由人民创造的，历史人物只是起到了推动、加快和影响历史事件的发生~~历史唯物主义的观点~

fredliouUID: 2540087

the key word "interdependent " is excellent!

涉及到 "The study of history places too much emphasis" 部分如何衔接一下呢？
草木也知愁 发表于 2010-7-12 17:53

It is still because of the massive public attention and superior leadership those figures have assumed that materials such as life stories and political records are almost readily available for historical studies. By studying those societal figures as proxy, the information synthesized from those materials can help public piece together the societal landscape. In other words studying those figures has been proven to be an effective and feasible route to understand historical events.

Another reason that society does not put undue emphasis on societal figures is illustrated by the efforts of archaeologists to gauge history through examining paper-based historic records and cultural relics. Instead of only focusing researches on those prominent figures, people have been trying various ways to understand the folklore and the historical backgrounds within which sensational events took place.

Thanks for the comments dude!

ggjyUID: 2706471

有点晕。。。