Issue138同主题如能指点，多多感谢

neverflyUID: 166610

看了很多大侠的，自己也连改带写弄了好几遍
1。 不要在一段里说太多的内容。重要的是叙述清楚。一个并列，或者一个转折就可以了，但是一个并列+一个转折就太多了，层次太多一方面不好写，另外也不impressive，imjason说我展开的不好可能是不是这方面原因

2.关于这个题目，比较好的立意

(a) 很多新的发现都是来源于失败， 但是这些成功都依赖于人对于克服失败，和从失败中汲取教训---by 枫丹
(b)only有问题。  偶然性也能帮助发现，不需错误
充分的准备也能带来发现，不需错误。--by山坡羊
(c)不是每个错误都会导致进步和发现。它取决与人们对错误的态度）永动机,能量守恒定律 -- by 猫猫624
(d) to err is human --used by 猫猫624

3.写作的时候关键的一个问题是例子。一方面举例论证就是一个难点，另一方面例证和观点结合也常常出问题。唉！

imjasonUID: 176604

占坐，
很长的文章哈

AutoseaUID: 192045

谢谢改我的文章！
我感觉你的第二段只是论述了mistakes是不可避免的，没有阐明这些必然发生的mistakes为什么useful。
第三段中间似乎没有必要说什么excuse，因为与全文无关。只要讲清楚这些错误是负面的就行了。
第四段我觉得不错，挺有道理的。

imjasonUID: 176604

Discovery and process这个词语起什么作用啊 are often companied是accompany吧？ with mistakes，which is known by many people and it is described by the old saying that mistake is the mother to the success这个句子表达不好，而且那个什么什么的母亲只有中国人才会懂吧. However, can we say that only through mistakes can there be discovery or progress? Can we say that a student cannot achieve the full score without failing in an exam before? Can we guarentee that a scientist must fail at the first try of a new idea? Can we expect every new company must lose money in the first product at the beginning? Surely not. Some discovery or progree is related to the mistakes but not all. In the same time, some mistakes is good for the future mistakes but some others are just excuse for the carelessness. It is important for us to take the right attitude to the mistakes.开头罗嗦了，我以前也爱扯半天。最好是迅速进入你的观点。两三句就够了。

Some mistakes are useful for the discovery and success in the long run. When we learn something new or try something we are totally not familar with, mistakes often happens单复数. A baby can not learn to walk without falling once and again, a student cannot mater单词拼写 a foreign language without spelling a wrong word, and human being cannot know how to send the first rocket into space without failures several times in advance. Through these mistakes, the new beginner learn单复数 much and become familar with the new problems. In this case, we should not be afraid of the mistakes. Another kind of （good mistakes）什么意思，还有好土匪了，表达得 不好 is the sign showing其实这里上重复的，sign自然是showing的了 that we have negelected some facts or something就不需要or something了 we have taken for granted is not really valid这句话要修改下，语法问题. In such cases, we should not neglect the mistakes but analyze the reason of mistakes. 这个body没有分析好

Although some mistakes are helpful for the progress, some other mistakes are just due to the carelessness and absent-minded. For example, Students sometimes make mistakes in the problems they might understand, workers might produce the failure这个是名词吧，而且用失败的产品表达我觉得不合理 production in the factory. Such phenomenon is so popular that people have got used with it. Seeing mistakes everyday, people tends to use the saying that mistakes are just the mother to the sucess as an excuse. When they make mistakes they use the excuse to forgive themselves. When they meet the mistakes of others, they use the excuse to calm down and relax. The excuse can give ways to more mistakes which will occupy the life of peoples, and thus more mistakes call for more frequent use of the excuse. However为什么要转折，不是还是那个意思么, a students who always make mistakes can never be a good students and a worker who often produce单复数 failure production is far from an excellent worker. If a man keeps making mistakes and using excuse to forgive himself, he will do nothing but felling sorry when he review his life before dying.好象说的是同一句话

To make the progress, we should not rely on the oppinon拼写 that progress or discovery must be achieved through mistakes. In modern society, there are many situation that we don't have the chances of make mistakes.用of么，而且后面的语法也不对啊 Taking the example of Wang'an, who created a great computer company but refused to develop the personal computer然后呢，没有下文了，句子不完整啊. This mistakes单复数 directly lead to the failure of his company. In their childhood, many people was taught the story of medicine "606", which come to succeed after 605 times of failure and the saying that mistake is the mother to success, however, they might negelect how much the mistakes cost and they don't realize that in some situation they don't have as many as 605 time to make mistakes.例子没有说清楚

In sum, mistakes is neighther the necessary nor sufficient conditions of progress. To make progress and become suceessful, we must take the right attitude to the mistakes. First, we should not be afraid of mistakes since mistakes are common when trying something new. Second, we should not negelct the mistakes if we know that mistakes might show that the real situation might be differnt as we have supposed before and exploring the mistaks will let us know something new. The last and most important, we should not always excuse ourself when making mistaks since the expense of mistakes is sometimes high and a man living in mistaks cannot be successful.
文章提纲是很好的，但是论述得不够深入。而且语法和拼写错误很多，这个希望以后上传前先在word里面修改好，也是对别人的尊重啦！一点拙见了，见谅

neverflyUID: 166610

hehe,多谢autosea.
除了论证的问题
我最担心的是自己思路散漫，一个意思弄了好久也没搞出来，严重超时阿.sigh

最初由 Autosea 发布
[B]谢谢改我的文章！
我感觉你的第二段只是论述了mistakes是不可避免的，没有阐明这些必然发生的mistakes为什么useful。
第三段中间似乎没有必要说什么excuse，因为与全文无..

以下省略...... [/B]

neverflyUID: 166610

最初由 imjason 发布
[B]而且语法和拼写错误很多，这个希望以后上传前先在word里面修改好，也是对别人的尊重啦！一点拙见了，见谅
[/B]

不好意思，写完了晕头转向，没修改就传上来了。真的不好意思，没有不尊重的意思。//shy。 这个样子你还给我修改，多谢了

没能展开好是我的老毛病了。上一片你给我改正完了我又修改了一次。这一片我过两天还会的。多谢了~

neverflyUID: 166610

改正的地方
1。开头换了，imjason说的对，简单的可能更好
2。第二段改了一下叙述
3。第三段专门叙述粗心的错误可以避免
4。第四段重写，两种影响对比
-----题目------
Only through mistakes can there be discovery or progress.
------正文------
开头观点：失败会导致成功，反之未必
首先叙述失败对成功是有帮助的, 尝试新东西的时候失败是难免的, 失败意味着有些知识是忽略的或者不知道的
第二段叙述有些失败只是由于粗心，并且是可以避免的。
第三段，题目观点会导致两种影响。好的影响是不怕错误，坏的影响是对待错误会有借口
结尾，对待mistakes 的态度
The speaker claims that only through mistakes can there be discovery or progress. I think it's somewhat reasonable, yet final decision depends on a case-by-case analysis for different situations.  likeying27的开头，比我好多了，试验一下，不好意思了

Some mistakes are helpful for the discovery and success in the long run. In the first case, when we learn something new or try something we are totally not familiar with, mistakes often happen. A baby can not learn to walk without falling once and again, a student cannot master a foreign language without spelling a wrong word, and human being cannot know how to send the first rocket into space without failures several times in advance. Through these mistakes, the new beginner will learn much and become familiar with the new problems. In the second case, making mistakes sometimes is heuristic since it shows that we have neglected some facts or taken something not really valid for granted.

In the other hand, some mistakes are just due to the carelessness and absent-minded. Such mistakes are not helpful at all and they are not the necessary conditions of success and discovery. Can we say that only through mistakes can there be discovery or progress? Can we say that a student cannot achieve the full score without failing in an exam before? Can we guarantee that a scientist must fail at the first try of a new idea? Can we expect every new company must lose money in the first product at the beginning? Surely not.

Believing that only through mistakes can there be discovery and progress has two kinds of different influences. One is good but another is not. The good influence comes that it tells people not afraid to face mistakes. Such attitude should be advocated since those who refuse to give up to the difficulties are more likely to achieve progress.  However, the bad influence is that such belief might exert a subtle influence on the human consciousness that mistakes can not avoided and people should not care too much. Thus an excellent excuse comes for the popular mistakes can be used to by the people to forgive themselves and others. The excuse can give ways to more mistakes which will occupy the life of peoples, and then more mistakes call for more frequent use of the excuse. In such case, believing that mistakes are the necessary condition of discovery and progress becomes an obstacle to being excellent and perfect.


In sum, mistakes are not the necessary of progress. To make progress and become successful, we must take the right attitude to the mistakes. First, we should not be afraid of mistakes since mistakes are common when trying something new. Second, we should not neglect the mistakes if we know that mistakes might show that the real situation might be different as we have supposed before and exploring the mistakes will let us know something new. The last and most important, we should not always excuse ourselves when making mistakes since the expense of mistakes is sometimes high and a man living in mistakes cannot be successful.

ivyshoulUID: 195537

Discovery and process are often companied with mistakes，which is known by many people and it is described by the old saying that mistake is the mother to the success. [不错不错,开头比我的好多了]However, can we say that only through mistakes can there be discovery or progress? Can we say that a student cannot achieve the full score without failing in an exam before?[突然把抽象的概念这样等同,不好吧,狭隘了,必须要full score才叫progress吗] Can we guarentee that a scientist must fail at the first try of a new idea? Can we expect every new company must lose money in the first product at the beginning? Surely not. Some discovery or progree is related to the mistakes but not all. In the same time, some mistakes is good for the future mistakes[future mistakes?] but some others are just excuse for the carelessness. It is important for us to take the right attitude to the mistakes.

Some mistakes are useful for the discovery and success in the long run. When we learn something new or try something we are totally not familiar [with], mistakes often happens. A baby can not learn to walk without falling once and again, a student cannot mater a foreign language without spelling a wrong word, and human being cannot know how to send the first rocket into space without failures [fail] several times in advance. Through these mistakes, the new beginner learn much and become familar with the new problems. In this case, we should not be afraid of the mistakes. Another kind of good mistakes is the sign showing that we have negelected some facts or something we have taken for granted is not really valid. In such cases, we should not neglect the mistakes but analyze the reason of mistakes. [突然冒出来,总要解释一下吧,一句话搞定好单薄]

Although some mistakes are helpful for the progress, some other mistakes are just due to the carelessness and absent-minded. For example, Students sometimes make mistakes in the problems they might understand, workers might produce the failure production in the factory. Such phenomenon is so popular that people have got used with [to] it. Seeing mistakes everyday, people tends to use the saying mistakes are just the mother to the sucess as an excuse. When they make mistakes they use the excuse to forgive themselves. When they meet the mistakes of others, they use the excuse to calm down and relax. The excuse can give ways to more mistakes which will occupy the life of peoples, and thus more mistakes call for more frequent use of the excuse. However, a students who always make mistakes can never be a good students and a worker who often produce failure production is far from an excellent worker. If a man keeps making mistakes and using excuse to forgive himself, he will do nothing but felling sorry when he review his life before dying. [我总觉得这样写有点跑了,跟枫丹的主题差不多]

To make the progress, we should not rely on the oppinon that progress or discovery must be achieved through mistakes. In modern society, there are many situation that we don't have the chances of make mistakes. Taking the example of Wang'an, who created a great computer company but refused to develop the personal computer. This mistakes directly lead to the failure of his company.[看到这儿才明白,是说有些错误犯不得吧?可是ts读起来不是这样的感觉哦,我读了还以为你要说没机会犯错那] In their childhood, many people was taught the story of medicine "606", which come to succeed after 605 times of failure and the saying that mistake is the mother to success, however, they might negelect how much the mistakes cost and they don't realize that in some situation they don't have as many as 605 time to make mistakes. [要点出來, 以为mistake是必要条件是不对的]

In sum, mistakes is neighther the necessary nor sufficient conditions of progress. To make progress and become suceessful, we must take the right attitude to the mistakes. First, we should not be afraid of mistakes since mistakes are common when trying something new. Second, we should not negelct the mistakes if we know that mistakes might show that the real situation might be differnt as we have supposed before and exploring the mistaks will let us know something new. The last and most important, we should not always excuse ourself when making mistaks since the expense of mistakes is sometimes high and a man living in mistaks cannot be successful.

猫猫624UID: 171232

The speaker claims that only through mistakes can there be discovery or progress. I think it's somewhat reasonable, yet final decision depends on a case-by-case analysis for different situations. likeying27的开头，比我好多了，试验一下，不好意思了

Some mistakes are helpful for the discovery and success in the long run. In the first case, when we learn something new or try something we are totally not familiar with, mistakes often happen. A baby can not learn to walk without falling once and again, a student cannot master a foreign language without spelling a wrong word, and human being cannot know how to send the first rocket into space without failures failingseveral times in advance. Through these mistakes, the new beginner will learn much and become familiar with the new problems. In the second case, making mistakes sometimes is heuristic since it shows that we have neglected some facts or taken something not really valid invalid就可以了 for granted.既然提出一个分论点，为什么不再论述几句

In on the other hand, some mistakes are just due to the carelessness and absent-minded. Such mistakes are not helpful at all and they are not the necessary conditions of success and discovery. Can we say that only through mistakes can there be discovery or progress? Can we say that a student cannot achieve the full score without failing in an exam before? Can we guarantee that a scientist must fail at the first try of a new idea? Can we expect every new company must lose money in the first product at the beginning? Surely not.一堆设问之后要再加几句，因为老外从不用设问表达意思，只是为了提示下文。他们思维反映不过来，呵呵

Believing that only through mistakes can there be discovery and progress has two kinds of different influences. One is good but another is not. The good influence comes that it tells people not afraid to face mistakes. Such attitude should be advocated since those who refuse to give up to the difficulties 拒绝放弃困难？are more likely to achieve progress. However, the bad influence is that such belief might exert a subtle influence on the human consciousness that mistakes can not avoided and people should not care too much. Thus an excellent excuse comes for the popular mistakes can be used to by the people to forgive themselves and others. The excuse can give ways to more mistakes which will occupy the life of peoples, and then more mistakes call for more frequent use of the excuse. In such case, believing that mistakes are the necessary condition of discovery and progress becomes an obstacle to being be excellent and perfect.


In sum, mistakes are not the necessary necessity of progress. To make progress and become successful, we must take the right attitude to the mistakes. First, we should not be afraid of mistakes since mistakes are common when trying something new. Second, we should not neglect the mistakes if we know that mistakes might show that the real situation might be different as we have supposed before and exploring the mistakes will let us know something new. The last and most important, we should not always excuse ourselves when making mistakes since the expense of mistakes is sometimes high and a man living in mistakes cannot be successful.最后一段写得感觉太像提纲，把 first， second， the last and most important 去掉

枫丹UID: 166492

138.Only through mistakes can there be discovery or progress.

When we look back into the history, we'll find many examples to substantiate the speaker's contention that through mistakes there can be discovery and progress. However, I am not on the speaker's side that there is no other means lead （leading）to finding and development.

Let us examine our learning progress through all these years. While learning knowledge and skills of scientific areas, we're first implanted with established formulas, ideas and concepts. However, before we can really apply the founded knowledge into practice, we cannot avoid making mistakes. Every time there is a mistake, by consulting to teachers and classmates and referring to books we correct it. Meanwhile, we'll get better understanding of the whole matter, our comprehension of the knowledge gets on another level. Thus we advance.
意思很是清楚，可是似乎短句子太多了吧？
The same is also true of the ever-lasting questing in science world. Scientists also make mistakes, and every mistake helps them rule out a wrong possibility which may later guide them into a wrong way, if not treated properly. The only right way leads to real fact is picked out by eliminating other wrong paths. It is well-known that Edison conducted thousands of times of experiments to find out the most suitable filament. Without the previous mistakes and the experiences accumulated by correcting them, how could Edison make the correct choice—selecting one substance out of the enormous matters in the world? In a larger scale, if we bear a historical perspective, we’ll see that mistakes of predecessors helped us a lot to find the correct knowledge. Columbus’s discovery has corrected the mistaken notions of earlier explorers and geographers. However, without the mistakes of former scientists, it will be more difficult for Columbus to discover the new continents.
我认为最后这一半不错，展开到 larger scale， 但是没有深入说， 而且我个人认为你的问句不应该太多。影响persuasive  .  
In a word, making mistakes is unavoidable since the intelligence and knowledge span of a man is limited, but by correcting them we move closer to discoveries and progress, that‘s how we grasp established knowledge and go on discovering the mystery of the world.
这样写的效果似乎也不错
Also we can see in our own learning progress examples which can serve to disproof the extremity of the title statement that there is no other means except mistakes that leads to success. Recall the condition when we first learn a foreign language. Everyday we read, listen and spell. Memorizing one more word, repeating one more spell and speak one more work in the right pronunciation is a progress for us. And it is not necessarily that everyone makes mistakes in this procedure. Moreover, today the concept of well-rounded people also requires that we have a healthy body. To gain physical progress, we can do pretty well without mistakes. In fact, there are few mistakes. By doing exercises like running, jumping and other sports, we become more physically sound. Whether we do it in a standard way or not, we can achieve the progress we want.（这句话是什么意思？？？） Further, later in our successive life, it is important that we do exercise to keep healthy. Jogging, hiking, swimming, skiing or cycling, we can do whatever we want and in whatever way we like. Have you ever heard people say "You make a mistake while jogging, your hands are swinging in a wrong angel thus you’ll make no progress.”?
这里你似乎把progress  的理解扩大化了。 这个锻炼和成功进步的关系写的有些乱。最好条理一下， 然后的问句我还是不太赞成，具体可以讨论。

To sum up, I admit that in scientific world, whether when （似乎句子不太通顺的说）we possess well-known knowledge and skills, or when scientists make new discoveries, mistakes can serve as a useful means to bring us to success. But still, we should be aware that by correct steady effort, it is possible that we’ll achieve accomplishments. Moreover, under some circumstances, once we make effort, we can pick the fruit, no matter there are mistakes or not, at least for physical progress.
写了好多啊！如果是限时的话，我很是佩服你了！！思路还是清楚的，但是似乎只停留在表面不够深入。 句子方面尽量条理一下， 避免太多的短句和问句

neverflyUID: 166610

刚刚发现自己的文章被改了受宠若惊阿
多谢 ivyshoul 和猫猫624。不过枫丹改的是谁的阿？蒙了。
这两天打算看看范文，整理一下连接词和模板。根据各位大虾意见我之后会再看看改改的。多谢拉~

这两天我会好好看看各位大侠的文章，好好学习,顺便丢块砖. :-)