14秋季提纲互改小组-Issue99/11

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99) People's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.
相关Issue题目：11
请回帖时按照指引链接列出英语提纲并用汉语解释并根据指引点评楼上的提纲。 第一个回帖的同学不必点评。
指引链接：https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1777364-1-1.html

ClaretZUID: 3567572

I agree with the claim because people’s behavior is largely determined by their family and society, which are out of the control of their own force.
People’s behavior is largely determined by their family because family can influence a man’s character and education greatly. 家庭关系、父母性格影响孩子的性格，家庭经济状况、父母对教育的重视程度影响孩子的受教育程度。由于性格和受教育程度直接决定了一个人的思维方式，因此决定了人的行为方式。因此，家庭影响了人的行为方式。举例：单亲家庭的孩子犯罪率更高。
What is more, society also exerts profound influence on people’s behavior because the law or social morality will determine people’s behavior directly or indirectly. 法律直接规定了社会公民的行为准则，社会道德影响了一个人判断事情对错的标准。这二者共同决定了一个人对行为是非的判断，而对行为是非的判断又决定了一个人对一件事是否能做的判断，从而决定了人的行为。举例：美国南北战争以前奴隶合法，因此很多农场主家中有奴隶存在；而现在社会倡导人人平等，奴隶制度不合法，因此不但没有奴隶，种族歧视的情况也逐渐消失。
Both family and society are out of the control of a human’s own force, so that people's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making. 家庭和社会环境在一个人出生之前被决定，由于家庭和社会环境会很大程度上决定一个人的行为，因此人的行为多是被外界力量所左右，难以被自己控制。
Some people may argue that people’s behavior is determined by their mind, and what they think in their mind is in the control of their own force. While this opinion seems to be against the claim, I, on the contrary, think it support the claim because how people think in their mind is also determined by family and society.一个人只能决定自己思考的对象，但是思维方式、思考过程和思考结果任然受到了家庭和社会的影响，思考结果决定行为，因此行为受到自己无法决定的家庭和社会的影响。

反思：
上面的提纲将人依据个人的角度完成，即个人的行为被外界力量左右，而以上论证的外界力量(家庭、社会)则是来自自己之外的其他的人群。
写完后我发现如果将整个人类作为整体来说，也可以持否定claim的观点：此时文化、社会风气、法律等都是人类自身力量影响的结果，也就是说，可以论证人类的力量对自身的行为产生了重要影响，并且这种影响大于自然环境等外界因素。不知这种思路是否可行？还望指教！

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

99) People's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.
相关Issue题目：11
请回帖时按照指引链接列出英语提纲并用汉语解释并根据指引点评楼上的提纲。 第一个回帖的同学不必点评。
指引链接：https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1777364-1-1.html

I agree with the claim because people’s behavior is largely determined by their family and society, which are out of the control of their own force.

这里的family和society这两个词都可以补充一些内容 变成短语结构 这样你的主旨句也会更精确一些  



People’s behavior is largely determined by their family because family can influence a man’s character and education greatly. 家庭关系、父母性格影响孩子的性格，家庭经济状况、父母对教育的重视程度影响孩子的受教育程度。由于性格和受教育程度直接决定了一个人的思维方式，因此决 定了人的行为方式。因此，家庭影响了人的行为方式。举例：单亲家庭的孩子犯罪率更高。

应该说清楚是家庭的哪些方面影响人的哪些方面  
这里似乎存在一些中间因素 比如性格 和 教育
性格一部分是父母的基因 一部分是父母的管教方式 而性格又影响行为 这个过程要写清楚
如果要举单亲家庭犯罪率高的话 也得说清楚这个之间不同因素的关系




What is more, society also exerts profound influence on people’s behavior because the law or social morality will determine people’s behavior directly or indirectly. 法律直接规定了社会公民的行为准则，社会道德影响了一个人判断事情对错的标准。这二者共同决定了一个人对行为是非的判断，而对行为是非的判断又决定了一个 人对一件事是否能做的判断，从而决定了人的行为。举例：美国南北战争以前奴隶合法，因此很多农场主家中有奴隶存在；而现在社会倡导人人平等，奴隶制度不合 法，因此不但没有奴隶，种族歧视的情况也逐渐消失。

一定要落脚到行为上面
总的来说这段思路不错



Both family and society are out of the control of a human’s own force, so that people's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making. 家庭和社会环境在一个人出生之前被决定，由于家庭和社会环境会很大程度上决定一个人的行为，因此人的行为多是被外界力量所左右，难以被自己控制。
Some people may argue that people’s behavior is determined by their mind, and what they think in their mind is in the control of their own force. While this opinion seems to be against the claim, I, on the contrary, think it support the claim because how people think in their mind is also determined by family and society.一个人只能决定自己思考的对象，但是思维方式、思考过程和思考结果任然受到了家庭和社会的影响，思考结果决定行为，因此行为受到自己无法 决定的家庭和社会的影响。

这里需要提出一个free will的概念
尽管表面上看起来我们可以自由支配我们的行为 但是其实这种支配还是由我们的价值观和身份来决定的 而价值观和身份又是家庭和社会决定的






反思：
上面的提纲将人依据个人的角度完成，即个人的行为被外界力量左右，而以上论证的外界力量(家庭、社会)则是来自自己之外的其他的人群。
写完后我发现如果将整个人类作为整体来说，也可以持否定claim的观点：此时文化、社会风气、法律等都是人类自身力量影响的结果，也就是说，可以论证人类的力量对自身的行为产生了重要影响，并且这种影响大于自然环境等外界因素。不知这种思路是否可行？还望指教！




我觉得你这个提纲的整体布局和思路都挺好
我估计你需要在每段如何展开的问题上再斟酌一下
建议你试下把开头段和中间第一段的全文先
写的时候注意要用一些具体的概念如 parenting style, educaiton, personality 等等来具体说明behavior和哪些force有关

gzc405933323UID: 3574833

Thesis: People’s behavior is largely determined not by of their own decisions making because of the external allures and restrictions and internal defects in self-control. Despite of the counterargument that many people can resist some temptation, it is other external attractive factors that shape their steadfastness.

1.        People’s behavior is usually determined by external temptations or constraints. 展开：temptation： a. 金钱和女色的对官员的诱惑，从而使得官员贪污腐败。B. 电影电视剧对学生的诱惑，从而影响他们学习。 Constraint：a. 天生残疾 b.政党之间制衡对官员施政的影响,官员的施政计划会遭敌对派系的反对，从而迫使官员放弃上述计划。
2.        People’s behavior are also subject to defects in self-control，which hampers their decision making with their own will. 人往往会有自我控制方面的问题。根据行为经济学的研究，许多人人往往天真地认为自己能抵挡诱惑，从而实现利益最大化（utility optimization）。其实在诱惑来临时，他们反而过度放大诱惑带来的享受，错误地认为接收当前诱惑能够使幸福最大化。因此他们的最大化效用的追求受制于自我控制问题，而这些问题并不是简单通过自己的意志能够克服的。根据行为经济学，这些问题需要外部控制机制（external commitment device）的缓解。例子：学生沉迷游戏无法自拔，需要防沉迷监控装置来帮他们纠正错误。
3.        Although there are many cases in which people can make choices against allurement, their choices are based on the assumption that they can gain far more benefits or less punishment from other external factors by warding off their temptations. 例子：许多官员能保持廉洁，是因为他们知道贪腐会他们带来长期的牢狱之灾甚至死刑。许多学生能抵挡游戏的诱惑，是因为他们知道不玩游戏会有利于学习，从而将来取得成功，未来的生活比现在玩游戏的生活更加吸引人。
4.        总结：……散开：Although many of our behaviors are beyond our control, sometimes we can select the factors that we are exposed to maximize our benefits as results of our behaviors shaped by those factors.

ClaretZUID: 3567572

gzc405933323 发表于 2014-11-17 09:54
Thesis: People’s behavior is largely determined not by of their own decisions making because of the ...

我认为第一点中的诱惑可以归入第二点的自制力差。因为第一段归结原因时，归纳了两个原因，一个是主观上的外界诱惑，一个是客观上的外界限制；而第二段则分析的是自制力差导致的行为后果。个人觉得这两段之间的逻辑关系不是很明确。
如果将第一点中的诱惑可以归入第二点的自制力差，那么第一段说明个人无法控制的外界限制，第二段说明个人本可以控制却因为人性弱点没有控制的诱惑，这样逻辑会更加清晰一些；同时也可以避免单独将外界诱惑作为个人无法控制自己行为的原因，因为这就好比用刀杀人却说是刀诱惑自己杀人的工具论谬误，诱惑之所以会影响人的行为归根到底是人的自制力问题。
希望共同探讨，请多指教！

gzc405933323UID: 3574833

ClaretZ 发表于 2014-11-16 01:46
I agree with the claim because people’s behavior is largely determined by their family and society, ...

个人认为你最后完全否定人的主观意志好像不大恰当。我觉得这样会好一些：人虽然可以通过主观意志作出一些决定，但是外部影响大于主观意志。

gzc405933323UID: 3574833

ClaretZ 发表于 2014-11-17 17:53
我认为第一点中的诱惑可以归入第二点的自制力差。因为第一段归结原因时，归纳了两个原因，一个是主观上的 ...

有道理，谢啦！

ClaretZUID: 3567572

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-16 22:41
99) People's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making.
Write a response in  ...

谢谢老师！请问我可以直接把全文发在这个帖子里面吗？

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

gzc405933323 发表于 2014-11-17 09:54
Thesis: People’s behavior is largely determined not by of their own decisions making because of the ...

99) People's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the claim. In developing and supporting your position, be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.


Thesis: People’s behavior is largely determined not by of their own decisions making because of the external allures and restrictions and internal defects in self-control. Despite of the counterargument that many people can resist some temptation, it is other external attractive factors that shape their steadfastness.

People’s behavior is largely determined not by of their own decisions making  从这句话可以看出 你对题目的意思理解有偏差
forces not of their own making. 和 own decisions是两码事



1.        People’s behavior is usually determined by external temptations or constraints. 展开：temptation： a. 金钱和女色的对官员的诱惑，从而使得官员贪污腐败。B. 电影电视剧对学生的诱惑，从而影响他们学习。 Constraint：a. 天生残疾 b.政党之间制衡对官员施政的影响,官员的施政计划会遭敌对派系的反对，从而迫使官员放弃上述计划。

仅仅是诱惑就可以写一段出来了
限制或许还可以再写一段
在一段里出现过多的point和例子是不太好的  
虽然也有范文这么写
另外你要强调诱惑非自己的力量所能控制 这样才算回应题目



2.        People’s behavior are also subject to defects in self-control，which hampers their decision making with their own will. 人往往会有自我控制方面的问题。根据行为经济学的研究，许多人人往往天真地认为自己能抵挡诱惑，从而实现利益最大化（utility optimization）。其实在诱惑来临时，他们反而过度放大诱惑带来的享受，错误地认为接收当前诱惑能够使幸福最大化。因此他们的最大化效用的追求 受制于自我控制问题，而这些问题并不是简单通过自己的意志能够克服的。根据行为经济学，这些问题需要外部控制机制（external commitment device）的缓解。例子：学生沉迷游戏无法自拔，需要防沉迷监控装置来帮他们纠正错误。

这段话和题目的关联在哪里
People's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making.
感觉你是在解释人为什么会屈从诱惑  
这似乎和上一段有重叠
或许第一段讲诱惑
第二段讲限制 比较合适吧

’

3.        Although there are many cases in which people can make choices against allurement, their choices are based on the assumption that they can gain far more benefits or less punishment from other external factors by warding off their temptations. 例子：许多官员能保持廉洁，是因为他们知道贪腐会他们带来长期的牢狱之灾甚至死刑。许多学生能抵挡游戏的诱惑，是因为他们知道不玩游戏会有利于学习，从而 将来取得成功，未来的生活比现在玩游戏的生活更加吸引人。

be sure to address the most compelling reasons and/or examples that could be used to challenge your position.
这一段你要讨论的challenge是什么 怎么没看出来
你得写清楚是如何挑战People’s behavior is largely determined not by of their own decisions making  
前一个例子或许可以和constraint 结合起来讨论
后一个关于游戏的例子 实在跟你这里的point没什么关系




4.        总结：……散开：Although many of our behaviors are beyond our control, sometimes we can select the factors that we are exposed to maximize our benefits as results of our behaviors shaped by those factors.


汗 为什么要散开  
你把前面几点概括一下就行了 不要乱散开

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

ClaretZ 发表于 2014-11-17 23:17
谢谢老师！请问我可以直接把全文发在这个帖子里面吗？

你先发前两段的全文吧

gzc405933323UID: 3574833

tesolchina 发表于 2014-11-17 23:18
99) People's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making.
Write a response i ...

老师，我想问一下forces of their own making跟他们的own decision有什么区别？

tesolchinaUID: 2191404

gzc405933323 发表于 2014-11-22 14:34
老师，我想问一下forces of their own making跟他们的own decision有什么区别？

forces of not their own making可理解为非他们自己所能控制的力量

杨家齐UID: 3566396

原题：11) People's behavior is largely determined by forces not of their own making.
Write a response in which you discuss the extent to which you agree or disagree with the statement and explain your reasoning for the position you take. In developing and supporting your position, you should consider ways in which the statement might or might not hold true and explain how these considerations shape your position.

我的思路：1，先承认外界影响的重要性；2，强调一个人自身的determination和unremitting actions可以克服来自外界的影响；3，人的行为是内外界影响共同合力塑造的。

讨论后的思路：分阶段论述。1，婴儿时期，所有的行为都受external forces所控制；2，青少年的行为来自both forces影响，比如必须上学，但可以有自己的娱乐方式；3，成人行为主要来自own making。这段可以加一个challenge的观点，即有人可能会说成年人也受到external forces限制，比如get married之后会受到social convention制约。我们defend的时候就可以说get married这个行为也是他自己选的。

规律和方法：要善于采用生活中的例子来论证题目，这些例子可能不是名人历史，或者不是很具体，但却可以深入分析并很好地支持观点。比如举例红绿灯是对稀缺的道路资源的合理分配和妥协。