Issue147 感谢两位的认真修改，这一篇都丰富的可以做笔记了。感谢斑竹的评分和关注.

njuzhshaoUID: 2258118

题目：ISSUE147 - "Tradition and modernization are incompatible. One must choose between them."
字数：521          用时：0:45:00          日期：2007/8/6
Are tradition and modernization really incompatible, as the author asserts? In my view, it is not such a case: traditions and modernizations have their incompatible aspects as well as their corporating aspects. One who chooses each of them can benefit from the full realization of the other.

After all, I agree with the author on the point that traditions and modernizations have their incompatible aspects, for what the makes 'modernization' from its counterpart 'tradition' is the changes in the process to be a modern, in other word, new one. Civilization is included in the defination of modernization, which may means an evolution from barbarlous behaviors in the past into civilized ones and old ideas into new ones, purified by the modern ideas of democracy and freedom. What is inevitable in these process in a break sometimes aiming at what were called traditions. To continue to accept monachy or to revolution for a republic world? That once served as a choice between the traditions and civilizations, one had to have a choose. When it comes to globalization, another trend in modernization, collipses also occur often. When European countries chose to adapted Adam Smith's theory in his well-known book Wealth of Nation and performed an open economic system, what they dropped was the old one where high taxes were used to protect their nation's industries. In these scenarios, between traditions and modernizations, which seems to be the symbol of transition, the controversaries are incompabile.

However, they are not alway acting like this. In modernization, well preservation of the former culture, which is called here, tradition, is another theme. When revolutions are occuring in the political fields, the changes happen in people's mind have rarely experience such a severe process: they often go along an evolution path, and in the path, traditions are coexisting with modernization; and some will survives longer as symbols and records of the past, even forever. An instance in the city construction in Beijing can aptly illustrate this point. Now in Beijing, old style ones--the quart yards, which used to be ultilized for living of our ancestors in Ming and Qing dynasties, from at least 500 years ago-- stand nearby the most modernized skyscraptures; and the preserved Forbidden City are replete with all kinds of electric equipments. These coexistings is indicating that traditions and modernization are not in such a hostile position, instead, they can be in harmony. What is more, tradition may lie as the basis where modernized one stand and the latter is to tranform to adapt to new coming time. It can be best demonstrated by the evolution of laws: even laws aiming at regulating Internet and clone are at the same start point and sharing a common principles with the former ones even hundreds years ago. A good understanding of the old ones is sure to benefit these learners of the newers.

So, to sum up, tradition and modernization, though in some aspects act as an controversary pair of terms, in other cases, do coexist and benefit each other. Realization of this point and comprehension of each another could help to a better understanding of them.

[ 本帖最后由 njuzhshao 于 2007-8-9 02:47 编辑 ]

菲子UID: 2311527

"Tradition and modernization are incompatible. One must choose between them."
字数：521          用时：0:45:00          日期：2007/8/6

Are tradition and modernization really incompatible, as the author asserts? In my view, it is not such a case: traditions and modernizations have their incompatible aspects as well as their corporating aspects.（这个表达有点问题，incompatible好像指是两个东西之间的关系，就像题目中的用法，不能说一个东西自己无法兼容的自己的吧。Corporating 同理，换一个句式吧） One who chooses each of them can benefit from the full realization of the other.

After all, I agree with the author on the point that traditions and modernizations have their incompatible aspects, for what the makes 'modernization' from its counterpart 'tradition' is the changes in the process to be a modern, in other word, new one. （这句话也有一点拗口）Civilization is included in the defination of modernization, which may means an evolution from barbarlous behaviors in the past into civilized ones and old ideas into new ones, purified by the modern ideas of democracy and freedom. What is inevitable in these process in a break sometimes aiming at what were called traditions. To continue to accept monachy or to revolution（revolute） for a republic world?(没有具体表明为什么要选择一个？为什么不可共存？传统王朝和公民化的不可兼容性在哪里？)  That once served as a choice between the traditions and civilizations, one had to have a choose.When it comes to globalization, another trend in modernization, collipses also occur often.（这句话略显单薄，看上去似乎不是和欧洲人采用亚当斯密的例子连成一体的吧？如果是的话，连贯性有待加强。如果不是，这句话放在这里没有什么力度，如果是个新的例子，可以详说） When European countries chose to adapted Adam Smith's theory in his well-known book Wealth of Nation and performed an open economic system, what they dropped was the old one where high taxes were used to protect their nation's industries. In these scenarios, between traditions and modernizations, which seems to be the symbol of transition, the controversaries are incompabile.

However, they are not alway acting like this. In modernization, well preservation of the former culture, which is called here, tradition, is another theme. When revolutions are occuring in the political fields, the changes happen in people's mind have rarely experience such a severe process: they often go along an evolution path, and in the path, traditions are coexisting with modernization; and some will survives longer as symbols and records of the past, even forever. An instance in the city construction in Beijing can aptly illustrate this point.（按照我的理解，如果你这个例子要举的是上面紫色的内容的话，感觉不太贴切，房子的传统和现代结合与人们思想的传统和现代结合不是一回事吧） Now in Beijing, old style ones--the quart yards, which used to be ultilized for living of our ancestors in Ming and Qing dynasties, from at least 500 years ago-- stand nearby the most modernized skyscraptures; and the preserved Forbidden City are replete with all kinds of electric equipments. These coexistings is indicating that traditions and modernization are not in such a hostile position, instead, they can be in harmony. What is more, tradition may lie as the basis where modernized one stand and the latter is to tranform to adapt to new coming time. It can be best demonstrated by the evolution of laws: even laws aiming at regulating Internet and clone are at the same start point （这是你的假设吧，凭什么说互联网和克隆的法律是在同一个起始点上？我感觉这两个东西好像不太能相提并论，而且，就是有这个起始点，你也最好把它说出来是什么，否则太空，无法令人信服。） and sharing a common principles with the former ones（这个所谓的former ones 是什么呢？要知道古代根本不存在网络和克隆的问题啊？） even hundreds years ago.A good understanding of the old ones is sure to benefit these learners of the newers.

So, to sum up, tradition and modernization, though in some aspects act as an controversary pair of terms, in other cases, do coexist and benefit each other. Realization of this point and comprehension of each another could help to a better understanding of them.



贴上我的Issue74 https://bbs.gter.net/thread-717644-1-1.html

njuzhshaoUID: 2258118

这个表达有点问题，incompatible好像指是两个东西之间的关系，就像题目中的用法，不能说一个东西自己无法兼容的自己的吧。Corporating 同理，换一个句式吧

反馈: 同意看法。把 imconpatible aspects and corporating aspects 改为　didagreements and agreements 如何？

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for what the makes 'modernization' from its counterpart 'tradition' is the changes in the process to be a modern, in other word, new one. （这句话也有一点拗口）
反馈: 同意看法。改为： for what 'modernization' differs from its counterpart 'tradition' is in the changes in its process to be a modern, in other word, new one.

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To continue to accept monachy or to revolution（revolute） for a republic world?(没有具体表明为什么要选择一个？为什么不可共存？传统王朝和公民化的不可兼容性在哪里？)  

反馈: 我想表述的是想要一个封建制度的旧世界还是想要一个民主的共和国，正是革命时期的思想变革的核心，而革命是revolution而不是evolution，所以不能共存……自己实在是表述不出来……唉……

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An instance in the city construction in Beijing can aptly illustrate this point.（按照我的理解，如果你这个例子要举的是上面紫色的内容的话，感觉不太贴切，房子的传统和现代结合与人们思想的传统和现代结合不是一回事吧）

反馈：这个是我的段落结构没有控制好，缺了一句转折的话。其实When revolutions are occuring in the political fields, the changes happen in people's mind have rarely experience such a severe process. 表达的是政治方面的，也就是总结上文，而下面是本段的内容 well preservation of the former culture 就是本段的内容。中间没有使用更多的语言，本想突出对比，没想到造成误解了。

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even laws aiming at regulating Internet and clone are at the same start point （这是你的假设吧，凭什么说互联网和克隆的法律是在同一个起始点上？我感觉这两个东西好像不太能相提并论，而且，就是有这个起始点，你也最好把它说出来是什么，否则太空，无法令人信服。） and sharing a common principles with the former ones（这个所谓的former ones 是什么呢？要知道古代根本不存在网络和克隆的问题啊？）  even hundreds years ago.

反馈：这两个问题实际上是在一起的。are at the same start point and sharing a common principles with 其实是一个意群，我是想讲这些新的laws的出发点和原则都和从前的所有法律是一样的，（出于维护社会秩序，保护人的生命财产安全，维护国家统一……没有写出来）

==========================================
最后，感谢 菲子 的修改。

ghost33UID: 2267869

题目：ISSUE147 - "Tradition and modernization are incompatible. One must choose between them."
字数：521          用时：0:45:00          日期：2007/8/6

Are tradition and modernization really incompatible, as the author asserts? In my view, it is not such a case: traditions and modernizations have their incompatible aspects as well as their corporatingàcooperating? aspects. One who chooses each of them can benefit from the full realization of the other这里因为each和the other并不对应，读起来是有点怪怪的感觉了。建议换换句式或者怎么修改一下下.

After all,[in spite of?我觉得怪怪的，呵呵，不如to begin with, first of all 好呢？] I agree with the author on the point that traditions and modernizations have their incompatible aspects, for what the makes读不懂你想表达是什么？前后也没有介词连接？'modernization' from its counterpart 'tradition' is the changes in the process to be a modern, [这整句话太过复杂，对我来说，看了等于没看，因为我看不懂，汗~~]in other word, new one. Civilization is included in the definition of modernization, which may mean an evolution from barbarous behaviors in the past into civilized ones and old ideas into new ones, purified by the modern ideas of democracy and freedom. What is inevitable in these process in[再汗~~一次，没看懂，这个in是is写错了么？？] a break sometimes aiming at what were called traditions. To continue to accept[不如maintain，stick to] monarchy or to revolution for a republic world? That once served as a choice between the traditions and civilizations, one had to have a choose.[不地道了，make a choice] When it comes to globalization, another trend in modernization, collipses[collapses？什么意思？塌陷？？] also occur often. When European countries chose to adaptedàapply? Adam Smith's theory in his well-known book Wealth of Nation and performed an open economic system, what they dropped was the old one where high taxes were used to protect their nation's industries. In these scenarios, between traditions and modernizations, which seems to be the symbol of transition, the controversariesàcontroversy?矛盾不相容，未免中文化了？compatible是用在两个事物之间，和中文还是不一样的。are incompatible.

However, they are not always acting like this. In modernization, well preservation of the former culture, which is called here, tradition[我认为：here called tradition舒服点], is another theme. When revolutions are occurring in the political fields后面说的是文物保护，不是政治哦？, the changes happen in people's mind have rarely experience such a severe process: they often go along an evolution path, and in the path, traditions are coexisting with modernization; and some will survives longer as symbols and records of the past, even forever. An instance in the city construction in Beijing can aptly illustrate this point. Now in Beijing, old style ones--the quart yards, which used to be utilized for living of our ancestors in Ming and Qing dynasties, from at least 500 years ago-- stand nearby the most modernized skyscrapters; and the preserved Forbidden City are replete with all kinds of electric equipments. These coexistings is indicating that traditions and modernization are not in such a hostile position, instead, they can be in harmony. What is more, tradition may lie as the basis where modernized one stand and the latter is to transform to adapt to new coming time. It can be best demonstrated by the evolution of laws: even laws aiming at regulating Internet and clone are at the same start point and sharing a common principles with the former ones even hundreds years ago. A good understanding of the old ones is sure to benefit these learners of the newers.

So, to sum up, tradition and modernization, though in some aspects act as an controversial pair of terms, in other cases, do coexist and benefit each other. Realization of this point and comprehension of each another could help to a better understanding of them.

复杂句式好多呀，头都大了！！不过每个点都论证清楚了。
拼写错误比较多，我没有一一标注，只是影响理解的地方才弄了黑体。注意一下拼写吧！！！

ghost33UID: 2267869

上午网络不好，没有注意到已经改了哦

njuzhshaoUID: 2258118

corporatingàcooperating?

反馈: 这个地方的问题不止于此呢，采纳菲子的建议，整个改为：didagreements and agreements

One who chooses each of them can benefit from the full realization of the other这里因为each和the other并不对应，读起来是有点怪怪的感觉了。建议换换句式或者怎么修改一下下.

反馈: 典型的语言不地道……

After all,[in spite of?我觉得怪怪的，呵呵，不如to begin with, first of all 好呢？]

反馈: after all 是用来承接上面的。上面段最终落脚在兼容并包的建议上，而此段作为让步说得是观点的反面。

what the makes读不懂你想表达是什么？前后也没有介词连接？

反馈: 此句确实有问题……已经被 菲子 骂过了，改在上面了。

[这整句话太过复杂，对我来说，看了等于没看，因为我看不懂，汗~~]

反馈: 同上。

What is inevitable in these process in[再汗~~一次，没看懂，这个in是is写错了么？？] a break sometimes aiming at what were called traditions.

反馈: 确实是写错了。应该是is……唉，漏洞真多……对不住了。

[不如maintain，stick to]

反馈: 好建议。

have a choose.[不地道了，make a choice]

反馈: 这个……嗯，一眼就被你看出来了，事后来看这个词组自己都觉得汗，当时脑子晕了。

collipses[collapses？什么意思？塌陷？？] also occur often.

反馈: 说出来也汗……想写的是：collision

adaptedàapply?
反馈: 好的！

controversariesàcontroversy?矛盾不相容，未免中文化了？compatible是用在两个事物之间，和中文还是不一样的。

反馈: 这个地方我也不太会表达了……你大概也看出来我想表达的意思了……但是限于语言的问题，写不出来……

which is called here, tradition[我认为：here called tradition舒服点],
反馈: en，强行拆句子，有时就是读着不顺。

in the political fields后面说的是文物保护，不是政治哦？,

反馈: 此处应是 ghost33 误读了。在 菲子 改的时候提出了同样的问题。这句是承上的，总结的是上一段。

复杂句式好多呀，头都大了！！不过每个点都论证清楚了。
拼写错误比较多，我没有一一标注，只是影响理解的地方才弄了黑体。注意一下拼写吧！！！

反馈: 谢谢还不忘了夸奖一句……但是真的是漏洞百出。 复杂句式都是假的、都是……自己写得别扭而已……‘

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最后，感谢 ghost33 的认真修改。 菲子 主要从论证逻辑的角度分析了文章，而 ghost33 是从语言上指出了我许多的问题。谢谢大家。

njuzhshaoUID: 2258118

呵呵, 感谢斑竹的评分和关注.

菲子UID: 2311527

呵呵，互相进步了哈