0710G同主题写作第8期---Argument134【为你打开艺术这扇窗】

runningpiggyUID: 194977

argument比issue更值得大家花时间这是真的，可我想大家到最后还是用自己顺手的方式去写吧，考试的时候想不了太多的。真正熟悉了之后提纲都是不需要的。

ntmlgszUID: 2235666

嘉的作文5.5
+来给我们写同主题吧:)

abc021900UID: 2369431

好像没有人参加啊
上次的同主题作文还没有人给我改:(

1.尽管前两年看的人多，以后人们不一定喜欢
2.a 销量上新作家的销量不一定好
  b 出版商不一定增加神秘小说的发行
3.写作是出于兴趣并且并不是所有人能写好神秘小说

https://bbs.gter.net/thread-728006-1-1.html

星夜无夏UID: 2333978

:loveliness: 可能大家都考完了吧，LS的两个我来改！！！

jakartaUID: 174581

原帖由 ntmlgsz 于 2007-8-24 15:07 发表
嘉的作文5.5
+来给我们写同主题吧:)

我有时间，有精力，但是已经没有这个能力了。

leftkissUID: 2347956

:)
谢谢星夜
（不好，不要觉得恶心～～）

wizjoUID: 2175360

我也来交作业了～
https://bbs.gter.net/viewthre ... &extra=page%3D2

不懂规矩啊，不知道是不是应该直接帖就行了。Anyway，贴上先～

TOPIC: ARGUMENT134 - The following was taken from a guidefor aspiring writers.

"New writers usually cannot convince large,prestigious publishers that their work is marketable, so they mustfirstpublish with smaller, less well-known presses to establish a salesrecord. Butthe editors of Mystery Writers Magazine have good news foraspiring writers:the number of mystery novels published in the last twoyears has grown significantly, and more people read mysteries than anyother type of novel. In addition, almost half of the mystery novelspublished last year were written by first-time novel writers. Sincethere is apparently an expanding market formystery novels, allpublishers will want to increase the number of mysterynovels theypublish. Therefore, new writers should write mystery novels toincreasetheir chances for first-time publication with a larger,prestigiouscompany."
WORDS: 607         TIME: no time pressure         DATE: 2007-8-24

While the guide is somewhat opportunistic inenticing all theaspiring writers, regardless of what they actuallywrite, to first publishmystery novels with smaller, less well-known presses, it is fundamentally flawed that it fails to establish a causal relationship between this suggestion and the promising chances forthese new writers to cooperate with more prestigious company.

First and foremost, the argument is based on agratuitous assumption that novice writers have to establish a sales record with less smaller presses in order to impress large, prestigious publishers. This is ridiculous in that even according to an outsider of the publishing, he/she knows well that it is the work itself that is the determinant of recognition, not what the writer's historical selling records with little known presses. Chances are that prestigious publishers never care about novice writers' sales records, as they generally have nothing to do with the work's own market value. Consider this: a novice writer has established satisfying records with smaller publications with several mystery novels; and afterwards this aspiring writer meet a prestigious publisher with his or her own most satisfying works--a collection of essays on the philosophy of life. Thus the past sales records alone cannot justify the prominence of this writer'scurrent works unless it is presumed that this novice writer has gained considerable compliments and recognition from his or readers, and they are eager to buy whatever work by this writer.

Another problem is that the words from the editorsof Mystery Writers Magazine (MWM) don't necessarily imply increasingchances foraspiring novice writers. First I turn to the 'good news' from the MWM editors. No evidence is shown in the guide on how MWM isclaiming this conclusion, thus we have no idea whether this is from reliable statistical data or just faked up by the company itself to cover its sales crisis. Also no information isprovided to show whether this trend is existing just in MWM or other publishing companies as well. Given this information is factual and representative, however,there are other explanations for this prosperity other than the popularity of mystery novels. One possibility is that this mystery-novel-fever coincided with some popular TV series based on some mysterious settings; andthe audiences were eager to buy the mystery novels based on the script. This just explains the high proportion of mystery novels written by "first-timenovel writers" (probably writingmovie script formerly) last year according to the guide. As things arequite different between the now and thelast two years, the sales ofmystery novels would nonetheless decline as the popularity of mysterious TV series goes down.

Even if we assume that a market for mystery novels has been expanding in the past few years, especially last year, still we cannot guarantee that this is the case from this year on. Perhaps readers' enthusiasm with mystery novels has come to a plateau or even shown signs of declining.Thus the publishing world may not continue investing more on novels of this kind. And consequently there won't beany more opening chances for new writer sespecially when small publishers are inclined to play safe.

Overall, before one aspiring writer decide to rely on mystery novels being published by smaller presses in order to knockthe door open for a promising career with larger, more authoritative publishers, he or she should consider many more factors carefully thanthe over-optimistic information provided in this guide. Perhaps this writer has to first work as an editor or assistant to some renowned writers to gain experiences and improvement before being confident introducing his or her work to the publishers.

[ 本帖最后由 wizjo 于 2007-8-25 00:03 编辑 ]

lsl711UID: 2378391

https://bbs.gter.net/viewthread.php?tid=728439&extra=page%3D1

1、出版量过去2年增长不代表今后继续增长
2、读者增加不等于市场扩展
3、出版商不一定会增加出版量

[ 本帖最后由 lsl711 于 2007-8-25 11:39 编辑 ]

DimSumUID: 2346741

"New writers usually cannot convince large, prestigious publishers that their work is marketable, so they must first publish with smaller, less well-known presses to establish a sales record.
But the editors of Mystery Writers Magazine have good news for aspiring writers: the number of mystery novels published in the last two years has grown significantly, and more people read mysteries than any other type of novel.
In addition, almost half of the mystery novels published last year were written by first-time novel writers.
Since there is apparently an expanding market for mystery novels, all publishers will want to increase the number of mystery novels they publish.
Therefore, new writers should write mystery novels to increase their chances for first-time publication with a larger, prestigious company."

未看楼主和楼上的分析，自己小试一下。好做比较，同时检验未看过完整argument前，对argument方向的把握。
1、出版数量大幅增加：没有提供增长前的基数，那么所谓的大增幅没什么意义；更多人读：并不代表更受欢迎，因为没有纵向比较。所以不能说此类小说的市场在扩大。
2、即使如他所说市场在扩大，不见得所有的出版社都会出更多的玄疑小说。
3、如果要证明写玄疑小说会增加新手作品的出版几率，那么论据应该是去年出版的所有新手作品中，有大比例的玄疑小说。而去年出版的玄疑小说有一半是新手作品并不能证明这一点。
4、并没有数据说明去年有多少新手的玄疑小说是在大出版社出版的。

DimSumUID: 2346741

今晚才开始看argument，但对于要不要攻击背景有些想法。

1）“男人都是花心的
刘德华是男的
刘德华是花心的“
这个推理是正确的，虽然大前提不一定对
2）“男人都是花心的
刘德华是老男人
刘德华不花心“
这个推理是错的，但错不在大前提，而在于小前提又问题

所以，我觉得重要的是找出A-B的推理错误，而不是A本身的错误。

BTW: Starry Night这首歌很好听。很早看过《星空》这幅画（课本上：-）），但觉得真正有点懂这幅画是在偶然听到这首歌的时候，甚至有点懂了Vincent,不知LZ听过没?
有人没听过的话，俺强力推荐 ：-）

165802UID: 2383589

同赞

忘了密码的EUID: 2354139

love starry night ~~~

星夜无夏UID: 2333978

原帖由 DimSum 于 2007-8-25 00:11 发表
今晚才开始看argument，但对于要不要攻击背景有些想法。

1）“男人都是花心的
刘德华是男的
刘德华是花心的“
这个推理是正确的，虽然大前提不一定对
2）“男人都是花心的
刘德华是老男人
刘德华不花 ...

听过。

对于要不要攻击背景，如何攻击背景，为什么我觉得是该如此的等等问题，做完这期同主题我会发一个专门的论述。现在大家先各抒己见吧。

HonaleeUID: 2177128

我觉得背景可不可批在于背景是否有问题。有问题当然可以批。但是要注意皮的方式，不要给人家一种强词夺理的感觉。
我觉得这个argument的背景可以这样批：市场上的这些神秘小说可能大部分是小公司出版的，为了迎合大众浮躁的阅读兴趣。大公司可能不屑于这类作品，认为它们没有持续的价值，因此很少接受。真正有水平的作品，不管作者是否是新人，大公司都有可能出版。就算有的大公司不赏识这些作品，或者没能体会到它们的价值而拒绝出版，能找到小公司出版也完全可以。因为真正有价值的作品肯定会在社会上引起反响，同样也可以成功。所以新作家应当专注于自己的写作，写出真正有价值的作品，而不是随波逐流，被动适应市场。
个人意见，仅供参考。

wizjoUID: 2175360

ls的个人主观意见很多呢，如果与批判论据结合得不好的话，会让判卷者也觉得你很主观。
不过这个思路用到issue里不错哦～

[ 本帖最后由 wizjo 于 2007-8-27 01:43 编辑 ]