本帖最后由 海王泪 于 2009-12-25 21:43 编辑
[REBORN FROM THE ASHES][comment][12.23]&[12.24]
https://bbs.gter.net/thread-1044413-1-1.html
My Sum-Up [Topic: Executive pay]
Issue: This house believes that on the whole, senior executive are worth what they are pay.
[About this debate]
The trend of much higher executive pay is radioactive.
Disagree: Huge pay is seldom tethered to performance and thus it demotivates other workforce.
Agree: Successful executives add hugely to a firm’s profitability and do hard works.
[Opening Statement]
The moderator's opening remarks
Executive pay is out of control.
Evidence: Executive pay has exploded since the 1980s..
Question: Isn’t his a disgrace? (Opinions and Examples)Critics vs. Defenders: Be given outsized rewards vs. Be worth every penny)
Background: Unemployment, government expenditures, bosses and bankers.
An introduction: Defender and Critic
Defender: 1) CEO pay has not gone up but dropped, comparing with other well-paid groups; 2) CEO pay is related to performance
Critic: There is relationship between pay and the recent credit crunch.1) Executive pay helped to create the mess; 2) Continuing huge pay damage the credibility of bailing out system.
The proposer's opening remarks Steven N. Kaplan
【Thesis】 Critics have been in psychologically imbalance.
1【Reason】 CEO pay is driven by market forces and performance.
1.1『Evidence1.1』CEO pay has not gone up but dropped, comparing with other well-paid groups
[Measurement]How CEO pay is measured: Three components measured in two ways.
[Description]The wave of (average and median) expected pay (with data)
[Comparison] Other well-paid groups (Data)
[Description] About the well-paid groups (Classification and Examples)
[Sub Argument]CEOs are not unique. Their pay has been pay driven by market forces as people in the other groups. [Defense] Critics must explain how CEO can be overpaid and not subject to market forces while other groups are consistent to market.
1.2『Evidence1.2』:The pay of other groups is relevant for CEOs, because relative pay matters (the occupation they choose) and payment are according to market demand.
2【Reason】 CEO pay is tied to stock performance.
『Evidence2』 Examples and Data
3【Reason】 CEOs do not control their boards.
『Evidence3』 CEO tenure has declined and CEO has been treated tougher by boards.
【Conclusion】Market forces govern CEO compensation.[Examples]Governments payment
The opposition's opening remarksNell Minow
【Thesis】Excessive executive compensation is both a symptom and a cause of the current economic mess.
【Reason】Incentive compensation rewarded executives for the quantity of transactions rather than the quality of transactions which led to subprime disaster.
『Evidence1』[Example] CEO Angelo Mozilo and his shareholders. 『Evidence2』[Example] Aubrey McClendon 【Conclusion】There are deadly sins of executive compensation.
Reference
The pay of people in the other groups has undoubtedly been driven by market forces; all are compensated in arm's-length markets, not by cronies.
Arm's-length markets
A financial market in which parties engaging in transactions are separate and have no contact with each other outside of the buying and selling of securities. In the case of the stock market, most investors will never know from whom they are buying securities or to whom they are selling them.
http://www.investorwords.com/6403/arms_length_market.html
Arm's length principle
The arm's length principle (ALP) is the condition or the fact that the parties to a transaction are independent and on an equal footing. Such a transaction is known as an "arm's-length transaction".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arm's_length_principle
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Sentences and Phrases
This trend was never popular, even during good times. But today it is becoming radioactive, as governments step in to rescue failing companies and ordinary people are forced to tighten their belts.
Popular=radioactive
Tighten ones’belts=Retrenchment
These are only a couple of the questions that we need to thrash out in the coming days.
Thrash out=discuss and solve (A Plan, Problem or Agreement)
The multiples increased exponentially.
These criticisms have been exacerbated by the financial crisis and the desire to find scapegoats.
And the post-meltdown awards are all but guaranteed to continue to create perverse incentives.
Functional Senteces
【Introduction to topic】
The debate about executive pay, though never cool, is particularly hot at the moment.
【Argument: Call out questions to a claim】
Such bold opening statements raise questions galore.
【Issue or Argument: Contradiction to misperceptions】
1) I argue below that the critics are wrong and that there are many misperceptions
of CEO pay. While CEO pay practices are not perfect, they are driven by market forces and performance.Contrary to public perception, CEO pay has not gone up in recent years. In fact, the average CEO pay (adjusted for inflation) has dropped since 2000, while the pay of other groups has increased substantially.
2) Similarly, the view that CEOs are not paid for performance is wrong.
3) Those who argue CEOs are overpaid have to explain how CEOs can be overpaid and not subject to market forces, when the other groups are paid at least as well and are subject to market forces.
【Euphemism when details are too extreme】
These may be anecdotes, but they are illuminating ones. The numbers and details may be at the extreme, but the underlying approaches are representative.
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My Comments
Part One: Comment on the Proposer
Only after reading Debates from Economists do I truly realized what sentences mean as follows:
[AW Intro-Issue]Once you have decided on a position to defend, consider the perspective of others who might not agree with your position. Ask yourself:
• What reasons might someone use to refute or undermine my position?
• How should I acknowledge or defend against those views in my essay?
Here are examples: 1)I argue below that the critics are wrong and that there are many misperceptions of CEO pay.While CEO pay practices are not perfect, they are driven by market forces and performance. 2)Critics also argue that CEO pay is not tied to stock performance.
Looking at what CEOs actually receive—realised pay—Josh Rauh and I found. 3)The final myth to bust is that CEOs control their boards and earn high pay through this control and not performance.In fact, CEO tenure has declined
The author successfully consider the perspective of others and give reasons one by one to defend agansit them. That's what the most valuable thing we should learn from this article! Excellent!
But I have question on reason2.
Although I admire the persuasive writing and logical thinking of Steven N. Kaplan as the defender, I cannot help myself arguing for an assumption ignored by Mr. Kaplan.
My question is how to measure performance of CEOs?
Steven N. Kaplan has showed how CEO pay is measured with three components in two ways. But that cannot explain if executives are well worth their pay. To a company, a CEO must create value more than his or her payment; otherwise board would treat the CEO as worthless person. Thus, the author makes significant mistakes when he placed too much emphasis on change and comparison of payment in positions, but ignored talking about how much they create for the company.
We find it hard to know how much do executives contribute to their company. CEOs macroscopically control the company and they are out of specific affairs. So there are no exact or detailed ways for calculation of their performance. In contrast, what salesmen contribute can be seem as the quantity they sold, while performance of product R&D personnel can be measured after calculation of sales and costs in their invention. Thus, how could we draw the conclusion that CEOs are worth what they are pay when we do not know how much do they create?
The author illustrates the relationship between the payment of CEOs and the stock performance of their company, in order to argue critics like me:
“Josh Rauh and I found that firms with CEOs in the top decile of realised pay earned stock returns 90% above those of other firms in their industries over the previous five year. Firms with CEOs in the bottom decile of realised pay under performed by almost 40%.”
As far as I concern, Mr. Kaplan may mistakenly treat correlation as causation. Even worse, he may turn around the cause and effect. The top firms perhaps tend to pay highly for their CEOs because such firms are strong with high stock returns itself . Similarly, firms in bad condition cannot afford high payment for their executives. Outstanding executives in high realized pay perhaps really help a lot. But the question is still unsolved when no evidence show if values they create are well worth their high salary, bonus and stock.
Part Two: Comment on the Opposition
When I read the first and second paragraph, hardly can I believe such a stupid mistakes come from a long-time shareholder activist and chairwoman.
Nell Minow wrote:“The decisions that led to the meltdown were made by executives who knew that they would be paid tens, even hundreds of millions of dollars no matter how successful the consequences of those decisions.”
In fact, it is well known that the most important component of CEOs’ payment is stock-base pay. CEOs really care the consequence of their decisions which directly affect their stock returns. So it is really ridiculous to treat CEOs as workers who work very passively due to fixed salaries.
However, when I come to the next paragraphs, I know what the author means. I am sorry that I misunderstand the purpose of Ms. Minow. It is impossible for her to ignore the relationship between rewards and stock price. The example of Aubrey McClendon is valid, and I think I am one of those people who she was talking to “…you have got to be kidding. If this is pay for performance, what exactly is the performance we are paying for?”
Then Mr. Minow again surprises me. She wrote:” These may be anecdotes, but they are illuminating ones. The numbers and details may be at the extreme, but the underlying approaches are representative.”Well, I cannot but admit these two cases really serve as illuminating ones. I cannot but agree other executives may more or less use similar approaches for their own profits. She is right.
But, we cannot simply treat other executives as Angelo Mozilo and Aubrey McClendon. They are extreme examples, as what Nell said. Such great power to control boards, like raise in payment or misappropriation by enforce the other shareholders, is very very rare.
Part Three: My Perspectives on Both Side
All in all, Steven N. Kaplan is a good scholar. He supported his issue in a boarder view and discuss questions as a whole, while Nell Minow only used two examples, though they are strong, to criticize executive pay.
Although Mr. Kaplan didn’t completely persuade me because he didn’t suggest a way to compare value created by executives with their payment, he really does an excellent work to show CEOs have not been in a better situation than before. Nell Minow’s examples are illuminating and persuasive, but their range for explanation is too limited.
I believe most of people would like to accept what Ms Minow said, but I personally prefer Mr. Kaplan because of his explanatory power. That is the difference between scholar and business woman. |